It's official, Kaji has seperation anxiety
 

I had a feeling he was stressed when I would leave, but now I know for sure. I have bought a kong to use and plan on giving him his breakfast in it (kibble with yogurt frozed near the opening to really give him something to work for) when I have to leave in the morning. I had no idea he could be so messy.
His worst was last Friday. I had to leave twice that day, once for a 9:30 appointment, and the second time for a 12:30 appointment. I left at 9 am and came back at 11 and he seemed fine. He had his onesie on so as not to lick his neuter area. I left him in his expen with food, water, his bed and all his things and a fan on because the loft can get warm. When I came back he was happy to see me and only had one little spot of pee on his onesie. No biggie! I washed it, dried it, had lunch accompanied by my two furry friends, Kaji and my roommate's dog Danger, and then got ready to head out to my last appointment. I thought if I left him with Danger, his furry friend, maybe he would be ok, and not miss me as much. So I dressed him up in his belly band and onesie, so neither dog licks his neuter area, closed off areas of the house they could potentially get in trouble in and went on my way. My appointment was incredibly short and I was back in about 40 mins. I walk in to smell poo and pee. Kaji had pooed in his onesie (something I thought he would never do), and he had drenched the belly band (it was so much pee the pad I put in there couldn't contain it all) and his onesie. He was happy to see me but scared and confused at the same time. I had no choice but to bathe him since he smelled horrible.
On my way to my parents house, he was quiet and acting normal, when he decided to sit on my lap. I usually don't allow it but I did that day. Two seconds later, he peed on my lap. I thought there would be no way he would pee any more since he had just soaked the pad, belly band and onesie so I thought I was safe until his afternoon walk after all the goodies my dad would give him. That was a nasty surprise.
I dropped off my pee drenched puppy at my parents and when off to buy doggie shampoo (the pee got all over the place), nature's miracle to clean my car seat, and a kong which I was sure I was going to need eventually. I also called the vet and asked her if she thought it was a possibilitySince then he has had 3 more accidents inside. One in the kitchen on Friday after I stepped out to grab something from the car, another Saturday morning, and the last one today after I stepped out again.
Sorry for the rant but I really needed to get it off my chest. Any advice?

Oh! And all weekend I have been trying to get Kaji to associate the Kong with good things. I have been giving him his favorite treat, pieces of cheese. He's getting the hang of it.

Advice please!
I'd like to know what I should be doing, if I'm going about it the wrong way or something. Please?

Joey had a few set backs after neutering, and I've read this is really common. I'm not sure why you think this is separation anxiety. I had a rehomed dog with it, and he literally tore the house or car apart if he was left alone, he wasn't attached to any one person, you could hire a babysitter and he was fine, but leaving him alone was terrifying for him. You say he seem fine when you get home, and you are thinking it's anxiety because of the pooping or peeing, but I think this could be related to the neutering. To test for anxiety, you can film your dog while you are away. My suggestion is to wait a week and see if he improves on his own with his potty habits, he may associate the car ride with the trip the vet.

I have left him home with a full house. My mom, dad, and two brothers. They tell me he's not himself if I'm out. He paces, smells my things and cries when he does. He's only happy when he's following me from room to room and sleeping at my feet. I should have included this in my original post.
And the only other person he's ok with is my mom because apparently she sounds like me. He hears her voice coming from another room and runs over to see if it's me. At least that's what I've been told.

Joey acts this way when I'm gone too, and I've read that some Yorkies develop more of a relationship with certain people and get overly attached, but I'm home most of the time, so this is normal. He use to follow me from room to room, but at age three, he's become more lackadaisical about this, and offers me more freedom. :D A couple of things that have helped me, is that I will go outside or to the garage for short periods, and return, and he doesn't even seem to notice anymore. Also, and this next part is really hard to do, when you get home, don't act excited. I ignore Joey for the first 5 minutes or until he settles down, and then I give him a treat or pet him. If I don't do this, he will do that choking kind of sound where it sounds like he can't breathe. This was extremely hard for me to do, but it works, and after three times of consistently, ignoring him, the last time I came into the house, he was pretty good, and settled down within a minute. For some reason, if you act excited to see them when you get home, it increases their anxiety when you are away. If you do a google, on anxiety separation, you will see these tips, and many others depending on how severe the anxiety is, but nothing you have said has made me feel like this is all that unusual. I call Joey my little Klingon! :D

I thought it was unusual because he came from a home with lots of other doggies, and for him to make such a huge mess of himself when he wasn't completely alone has me baffled. He's comfortable around Danger when I'm there, I did have to teach him to have a little self control (through repitition) but otherwise these two get along nicely. I've heard him cry and whimper when I leave him alone upstairs, but what I try to do is not reappear until I hear he is quiet and I make him sit nicely for me before I let him out of his expen. He knows now that he has to sit and wait to be invited out before he can roam around.
He's 1 yr old, so he's not a puppy that needs to much training. He just had a problem with leg lifting, or marking, in a house that smells like another dog. He's so smart too... in a few days he understood no leg lifting inside, because I watched him closely and corrected him (clap to interrupt followed by a "NO") everytime I saw him try to lift his leg. But at home with my parents, there are no other dogs so he never even tried to lift his leg. This was the weekend immediately after his neuter. He peed and pooed nicely when I took him outside just like a pro.
I think what has me confused is the part where he seems fine when alone yet when he was with the other dog he was a mess. Plus, when I called the vet to check in case he had a UTI, she said it definitely sounded like seperation anxiety.
Should I not leave him alone with the other dog? Was the other dog's company more harm than good? Am I being a neurotic new mom?

Lol, you are being a normal concerned mom, and most moms worry about everything. I think when your vet used the term "separation anxiety", she wasn't really using it in the clinical sense, as in the dog needs therapy, but more like, " I don't believe your dog has a UTI, and is just experiencing a little anxiety from being separated." By the way, UTI's are common in females after spaying; I don't think they affect males after neutering, because the bladder isn't close to the testicles. However, nearly all dogs experience setbacks in house breaking after neutering/spaying. It sounds like you are doing everything great. He's older and it might take him a little more time to get use to your routine. I personally think it's great if you can have him around other dogs, it takes time for them to get use to it, but I really think it's good for them.

How's this for my new modified plan. I leave him with his Kong filled with his favorite treat, small pieces of cheese (it really isn't a lot) before I head out so he's a bit distracted. Then when I come back I wait for at least one whole minute of silence before heading upstairs (it's super hard not to go up there and pick him up :( ) then 5 mins of ignoring him once I'm physically in the same room as he is. What do you think Nancy, good plan?

Oh, and I think the vet's exact words were "he was mad at you so he peed and pooed himself, then peed on you in the car."

Oh dear, I hate it when vets give advice like that, if people think their dogs are mad at them they react in one of two ways, they get mad, or they try to make it up to their dog, and spoil them, neither is good for the dog.

Your new plan sounds good, but I want to remind you than when you get home, you don't have to wait 5 minutes, it will seem like a long time to you, and may be five minutes, but it's probably less. I'm telling you its agonizing, and you will feel like the worse mommy in the world, but keep telling yourself it is for his own good, and he'll be less anxious when you are gone. I usually go in the kitchen a fuss around, and when he stops jumping up on me and settles down, that's when I give him the attention, so you are rewarding his calm behavior with your attention. When they jump up, don't forget to turn your back to them. I don't even say no, I think that might cause him to bark, and get more anxious. If your are good at this, he might settle down within 30 seconds, and you can pet or give a treat, but don't fuss too much and, no eye contact until he composes himself.

Not sure that is sepration anxiety but rather a dog that is over bonded and needs some self confidence.
Rather think that working an appropriate desenstization program for sepratation anxiety be a good idea.
There are a few good ones if you google search.
Plus you need to look into him getting comfortable in short amounts of time with other humans...no easy but it will help.

JL

My reasoning behing the plan is when he is upstairs in the loft he can hear everything that's going on downstairs, like if I'm talking to Danger cuddling him or whatever. That usually drives Kaji mad because he can hear me but he can't see me. That's why I wait a minute before going upstairs. Once he is no longer pacing, breathing heavy, or yipping I calmly walk upstairs and go about my business. Once he sees me he usually jumps up and down in his pen, that's why I incorporated the 5 min of no eye contact or going up to him to cuddle. All that jumping, pacing, and yipping really tires him out.

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Sorry for the play by play, but I want to make sure I am doing right by my boy. You're a great asset Nancy I really thank you for the help.

I go to my parent's house every weekend. That's 4 new faces he sees every week. We've only been there 3 weekends and he's starting to come around. This last weekend he didn't need to be right by me every second. He wandered off to see what my dad was doing in his office, what my mom was doing in the kitchen (and see if he could "puppy dog eye" her into giving him a treat), and then see what my brothers were doing. When satisfied he'd come looking for me and if I wasn't in the house he would pee, or pee soon after I came back. First I want him to be comfortable with them as he will be seeing them often, and from there I'll start incorporating new people.
Oh, we will be going to a meetup this Friday and some other YT members are going too!!

Separation Anxiety | The Humane Society of the United States

Separation Anxiety


Separation anxiety is a serious emotional state in which a dog becomes anxious and panicked when his owner is absent. The physical manifestations of it have been compared to a panic attack in humans.
Typical symptoms are vocalization, destructive behavior or self-mutilation, physical manifestations (panting, drooling, sweaty paw pads, dilated pupils, trembling), breaking of housetraining, and anorexic behavior. The anxiety begins to build during the owner’s departure ritual and the symptoms occur within the first minutes after departure.
Shelter dogs are at an increased risk for developing separation anxiety. They have had bonded relationships with humans in the past which have been severed and so they may likely bond more strongly in subsequent human relationships. In addition, it may have been the animal’s separation anxiety that brought about her surrender to the shelter in the first place. While any dog can conceivably develop separation anxiety, it occurs more frequently with dogs who are particularly affiliative toward humans – “soft”, bondy dogs.

You're welcome and let us know if it works, you might have to tweak it a little for your special circumstances. I had read about this a long time ago, and tried it twice, but I caved in, and went back to sitting on the stairs and letting him kiss me, but this breathing thing of his, got so bad, he really sounds like he can't get his breathe, so he's honking away, like he's having an asthma attack! I just had to try it again, and this time, after doing it 3 times in a row, he was so much better I couldn't believe it. Now that I know it works, it will be easy to keep doing it.

What a little cutie pie, that will take all your strength to resist!

When you are with the new people or your family have them do the feeding and the petting and the letting in and out.
He needs to learn to trust others so it not only seprataion anixety which is partly over bonding but true over bonding. oh oh not a bad thing if you have a dog with fear concerns at all ever.. so not a critizem.. have I said yet that I still have one at my house. we have worked through her concerns and now can stay with others and feel ok.

Sepration anxiety is being left behind alone. over bondng is painc even when others are around so it a two fold thing not part and parcel as many think.
Blow by blow reports are good.
If he gets to the point he can not eat or is wreaking things you need a someone hands on to help not us as we ca nnot help with drugs and seeing what he is saying in body language either.

JL

That vet, I am sorry to say is a fool. Dogs do not have that part of the brain that is able to fuction at that level of thinking.
We are asigning feelings that science does not have to ability to prove.
They do not have a large enough frontal lobe to think in this manner.
Vet or the regular kind do not get but one lecture on behaviour in school and are there for clueless and need to shh unless they specialize and or are specializing in behaviour.

JL

I figured as much. It's like people doctors and nutrition, some don't know anthing about nutrition.
Well, I'm off to take Kaji to a doggie park. He really loves to run around with the other doggies!!

Enjoy the play time wish my brat girl could do that with yours she can not manage other dogs noe other strange humans.

JL

Doggie park = one tired puppy. Silly dog ran straight for an opening to the big dog section. :rolleyes: He walked right through a tiny opening between the gate doors and the rest of the fence.

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Just to let you two know that it's not all bad in Kajiville. I am re-training him to go pee and poo outside, and since silly me always runs out the door without a special treat I have to improvise with tons of praise. It seems to be working. After our little "pee pee party" Kaji tends to strut with his tail held high. :)

That is a great idea pee party. Proves that it is not just treats a dogwill work for.
Keep up the good work.

JL

Well, I'm puzzled now. Kaji will not walk out the front door, I don't know why but he won't. He'll come downstairs with me then watch me walk out. When I call him he quickly turns around and jets back upstairs. Once I get up there he is sitting by my bed and when I get close he lies on his back. When I reach down to pick him up because he needs to get out to potty, he dribbles pee. He did it three times today. Once before his mid-day walk, and twice before his before bed walk. The second one right now dribbled all over his belly. This is a fairly new behavior and it has me baffled. It only happens if I let him walk downstairs as we're heading out. If I carry him down and all the way outside, he's able to hold it long enough to pee outside. I thought I was seeing things for a few days but now I'm sure, I saw the stream when I picked him up all three times today.
My roommate was helping me show him that walking out the door is good. And he was getting the hang of it, too, when he ran back upstairs and then he peed (not dribbled but a small puddle). He knew he did something wrong because he cowered and hid under my desk.
Am I doing something to scare him?

I say yes on him being scared. You got what I say is sudmission peeing.
Ok now we work through it.
Fisrt shelf the guilt that you cause this. You did the best you could with the info given from lay people in training and what worked for thier dogs. It is what t is and you move slowly forward from here.

I am not going to go back through posts to try and find the clue to busy but you can list point form the steps you have done so far and we will see if we can get this sorted out.
From here though lets go slow really slow.
If you want help and if not the best course of action is a proper PHD and or DVM with behaviour to see if they can fix this.

JL

OK suggested made by someone else check for a UTI.

I need a lot more detail to try and put the puzzle together but if you are thinking fear it usually is.

So we can take this to PM and work through it or we can chat here which ever you are most comfortable with.

JL

Do you want me to point by point the last 3 weeks, or point by point the way I have gone about correcting him?

Oh, and I have a question/comment.
I thought submissive pee would always happen, like he's always scared of me. Most of the time he's my little cuddle bug, asks to be let up on furniture, and always sits by me. I probably pick him up a million times a day, and sometimes when he's on his back. No pee. But when I try to get him to go outside, and he comes down but won't go out then he runs back upstairs, that's when the pee happens, and only then. I don't pick him up mad, I just tell him what a silly boy he is, pick him up and probably sneak in a few kisses. Is it still submissive pee?

I think we should try to go point for point around the way that you have gone about correcting him and then see what we can see.
I may just PM erin to get her to come have a look too she may see things with a fresh eye and a clearer brain. Alway good for me to ahve someone that I can go are you seeing as two brains are better then one.
So going to go PM erin and see if she around.

"Oh, and I have a question/comment.
I thought submissive pee would always happen, like he's always scared of me. Most of the time he's my little cuddle bug, asks to be let up on furniture, and always sits by me. I probably pick him up a million times a day, and sometimes when he's on his back. No pee. But when I try to get him to go outside, and he comes down but won't go out then he runs back upstairs, that's when the pee happens, and only then. I don't pick him up mad, I just tell him what a silly boy he is, pick him up and probably sneak in a few kisses. Is it still submissive pee?"

I would say yes as it a stress responce.
when relaxed and interacting from his comfort zone he is ok and does not pee but the second he understands he about to be asked to go out and pee that thing and I am only right now assuming gets things to a higher level of stress he ramps himself up and pees...oh and he can not help it he can try and try but he got no ability to control it.

So pull together what you have done and what you may have seen him do in repsonce and lets see if we can get this sorted out.

For now low key and if he has accidents remove him as calm as you can and clean up without him seeing and stay mellow as you can.
Deep breath as much as you can and speak soft and low when you need to move him.
Instead of asking to go out if you can just carry him out and do it matter of fact and no excitement or fuss.
We are going to back up and slow it down a ton. I even ignore his peeing when he is outside for now as if he stressing over the to much yippy you went outside that may be the trigger... yup I know these guys are intresting.
Trust me if I get to the point I not thinking we are making head way I shut this down and send you for handson help. There is only so much I can do over the net and it is not a grat way at all to train as you can not see the dogs responce at all. So Slow very slow.

JL

I saw a good episode of its me or the dog where a dog was submissive peeing when his owner came in the house after work. Anyway the owner would lavish attention on the dog when he came in and the dog would pee. She had the owner go in the house maybe give the dog a quick pat but for the most part ignore him and the dog didnt pee. I know your situation is different than this but I think you need to think about what you do with him right before he pees and change it up

That is a great thought but lets hang on switching anything until we see first that whole picture. We do not want to change to much until we get a step by step plan so that we know what is working and not change everything and not see what fised it.
I want to pull the stress leve lout of the rafters just by packing him outside not asking him to go out to start.

Lets remeber though to add this into the mix.

JL