Good luck with your doggie. I hope she feels better soon.

I do not believe the dog was choking, the collar was positioned right under his chin where Cesar always puts them. If you press on your own neck under the chin you will see that it does not choke you.

Cesar could not have let that leash loose, what if the dog had attacked someone else. dYes thers might have caught him, but when a large dog is attacking someone is going to get hurt. he chose to take the fbiting himself. After all what kind of a handler would let go of the dog and leave someone else to catch him.

If he had attacked a bystander, that would have been one major lawsuit. It is ludicrous to even suggest that he should have let the dog go.

Armchair quarterbacks can always play a better game than the man on the field.

I think under the circumstances he did a good job of controlling the dog and no one got hurt. I imagine the standing over hijm when he was down was to prevent another episode. You have to realize he too was exhausted.

How would you have controlled him?

I don't know how to discuss this topic with you because I feel like you ignore the main point of what I'm trying say, and sometimes you get very hostile. It seems like you take criticism of Cesar personally.

So sorry to hear of your little girls healtrh problems. I hope all goes well with her and if that is not meant to be then may the Lord comfort you through your suffering.

i think we can all say what we would have done in the situation, or how is should have been handled, what should have been done, and what shouldn't have been done until the cows come home. Unfortunately we were not there, we did not see the whole footage of what happened. Clearly the dog has aggression/dominance/insecurity/what-have-you issues. we don't know if they had any other training (they can say whatever they want on tv), and we don't know the whole background on the dog. There is a lot we don't know.

So i think we all need to agree to disagree on how we view that particular situation.

We all like to discuss Cesar because he is on TV (as is victoria). Its easy to pick him apart because we can actually see what he is doing, good or bad, right or wrong. When dogs react he only has a second to decide what he wants to do about it.

Its great to read books and learn theory, but until you are actually doing it, and are in that situation you can't really say what you would do exactly. I'm all for learning. I have many animal behavior books (a lot are dog books) and took courses in college while i was getting my bio degree. Reading is great but i think behavior and training is something you need to actually DO to get a good handle on it.

Are you talking to me? If so I'm not sure exactly what main point you are trying to make. You see abuse, I do not. You feel he should have let the dog go, I can see why he would not take that risk. Some one, including the huskey could have gotten seriously injured. You think he should have anticipated the dogs reaction, I see a human making a mistake in judgement.

And it appears that only two of you view it as kicking hitting and choking the dog, the rest of us do not.

It's all just a matter of opinion.

As for Yorkiemother, she has made some terrible serious accusations against the Cesar, based on some face book chat room gossip. I will defend Cesar on that for all of the reasons that have been previously stated. And if they have proof then it is a crime not to report this animal abuse to the athorities.

If she does not have first hand knowledge of the abuse, than it is nothing more than gossip. If anyone does have first hand knowledge and they have not reported it than they are just as guilty as esar.

YorkieMother - I'm sorry to hear your little girl is having problems and is not getting better. she will be in my thoughts. While we all may not agree on methods, none of us like to see a dog in pain, mental or physical. I hope your girl pulls through.

Very true. Things are always much clearer in theory than in practice. Lifes experience will teach you that nothing ever works out like they said in the textbooks.

If all of these other experts have such good methods then let them come on TV and show us theirs.

i think its so easy for everyone to pick on Cesar's methods because he IS on tv. It would be great if there were more shows like his so we can see other methods of training. All the behaviorists that are mentioned in this thread would be picked apart too if they had their own shows.

My point is that you are telling me that I've said things I haven't said, that you are being rude, and I'm not sure why. I can't discuss a topic with someone who doesn't read what I write and is appears to be trying to score bitch points. If fifty more people came on and said "I agree with Quicksilver 100%", would that make me more right? If not, why does it matter if it's just "us two", like we are some kind of team? YorkieMother and I don't agree on many other things, we are two individuals.

With all due respect then, why isn't VS the topic of this kind of debate? I know she's smaller than Cesar, but wouldn't you agree her methods are less controversial?

I agree, her methods are less controversial then Cesars. Cesar is big and out there, in your face. he doesn't use treats to get the dogs to do what he wants. He gets the dogs to behave in a home because that is what they are suppose to do. He turns them back into dogs instead of what the owner or past experiences have created.

His show was first right? Victoria came about after him so i think he's still more popular and more talked about then she is. He has a few books out there as well. i'm not sure if she does.

I don't agree with some of what victoria does, just like i don't agree with some of what Cesar does.

...i've totally lost track of what i was saying here. i was all over the place. i'm distracted by this lion show on ABC. sorry LOL

Where did I say that you said something that you did not say? I reply to the post, the quote is there to show what you said.

I have not been rude to anyone. I just debate what is being said.

Out of everyone that saw the video, you two are the only ones that saw choking. It is not my fault that others, saw it differently. It's all a matter of opinion and your opinion is in the minority.

Mercury, remember, this is the Cesar Debate Thread, not the VS debate thread. I don't know anything about VS, but I am sure that some of her techniques are successful. I want to sincerely thank you for starting this thread, for the most part this has been a debate and/or sharing of information without trying to cram ideas down each other's throats.

Back to the Husky.... my speakers don't work so I am at a huge disadvantage. I have watched that short clip no less than a dozen times and each time what I see is a very directed training session. I didn't see Cesar making an error in judgement, I never saw abuse and I believe that he knew exactly what was going to happen, and what the ultimate outcome was going to be BEFORE the cameras started rolling.

As far as the dog choking and gasping for breath, I have pondered this all afternoon. Mercury, have you actually seen an animal that was choking due to a rope being too tight around his neck? I can tell you that an animal that has a rope around his neck and is choking will use his feet to try to bat at the rope, he will sling his head side to side and after a very short time his tounge will be hanging out of the side of his mouth, and he will definately not have enough energy to make lunge at the rope holder.

I truly wish that you could work with a "Cesar" type trainer in person so that you could get the whole picture. The television program only provides the viewer with a very small piece of the puzzle. And because of that it is impossible to piece together what is really happening. Only when you get a clear view of the whole training puzzle, unbiased by the opinions of others will you be able to make a true determination whether or not the methods used are to your liking. Unfortunatnely, reading what others say about an individual serves no real purpose except to prejudice one either in favor of or against that person. If I want to decide if I like Cesar Milan's methods, it would be far better to read his books, to watch him in action, go to his website, etc., and trust your own instincts about his methods rather than read someone else's opinion about him.

And when we've finished with Cesar, let's debate another great trainer -- so we can all learn even more.