:thumbup:

I doubt that she got clearance from her clients to hint at confidential things on a public forum.

I believe it is all just gossip among a bunch of dog trainers who dislike Cesar.

Professionl people do not publically critisize other people in their same line of work. One can disagree with them but to publically accuse them of animal abuse is as bad as one Dr accusing another of malpractice.

I doubt that she has actual first hand knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes with Cesar Milan. Because if Cesasr is as abusive as she clims he is, the man would be in jail.

I am not distrespecting her but she is definitely disrespecting Cesar, and that is very unprofessional.

She has dug herself into a hole, and when you find yourself in a hole, the best thing to do is to stop digging.

Give me a break...I see breeders on here everyday bashing other breeders...so are you saying all breeders are not professional? How many times on here have “hints” been said in regards to a breeder. How many times have Yorkie breeders attacked Parti breeders or give the impression you are just in it for the $$$.

Please stop with the attacks and debate why you like him or not...nothing more.

Since when has this country protected their animals? They are property and just about anything can happen to them. Case in point is puppy mills that are allowed to remain open.

I will once again post a link on top professional behaviorists in this country and overseas who believe he is using very old methods and they do harm dogs mentally or could harm a human.

All I ask is that people at least read what these behaviorists have to say. Everything he does is not wrong but he scares me to death with how he handles some of the dogs. I believe he was coming close to killing the one dog by choking him until he had no breath. I try to look at training and compare it to training a human. I never did well when I got hit on the back of my head by the teachers to pay attention and if my parents had ever choked me there were laws not in place to stop them.

The reason Joy, myself and others who are not crazy about Cesar is because we have dogs that have issues and we have spent a great deal of time and effort to try and save these dogs.

Veterinary Behaviorists Take a Stand Against Cesar Millan

VIN News

If You’re Aggressive, Your Dog Will Be, Too, Says Veterinary Study at University of Pennsylvania: University of Pennsylvania

No holes dug here sweetness and light non at all. The assumption that it is a client makes me giggle or that it is gossip of trainers as well.. Little do you have a clue.
Do you think that the people on the shows do not have binding contracts to keep their mouths shut. Even in the face of needing repair work after the misadventure on TV.
I have posted before both please stop notices by both boards that have made rulings against him. both been around a few yeasr and are not noted for economic gain reasons to do anything.
Reason he is not off the air is very simple that to many have blinders on.
Several of us have repeatedly posted leading experts in the fields findings and reseach and what we get back is the experters know nothing. Well what makes then not you an experts is they spent years andi in cases millions of dollars studying this stuff.
Give me hard research data that proves your point and I will happily have a long hard look. We talk science you talk emotions.
As far as my comment on millions spent I can back that up cause I have seen the dollar cost in one fellows reseach and it is public record. if I could scan it in in I would. I have it all in hard copy. Happy to forward it to you.
As to the rest thin what you like cause your going to anyway even in the face of resposible reasoned expert finding.

Nice thing when a client brings you the days project and I do not have to move.... did not know until late last night I get to work from home.

Absolutely!!!! Any professional breeder that publically bashes another breeder is unprofessional. But being that breeding requires not form of education what so ever, the intelligence level varies. NO one, that I consider a professionl, has ever attacked me for breeding partis.

Being that she claims to be an educated professional trainer, there is a code of ethics that goes along with the word professional.

The animal abuse laws in this country are more strict than the child abuse laws. You can fabuse a child, even kill a child and go on to hqave other children. If you abuse an animal, you are forbidden to ever own another awnimal.

If she is so sure that he is abusing dogs and has inside knowledge of this, as she claims to, then it is her duty to report it.

She is the one that opened this can of worms and if Cesar is on trial here then I have a right to comment on and attempt to discredit, anything she is saying.

We've already been down the road of why we do or do not like him, but now she claims to have insider information and has made some serious accusations. So that is fair game for the discussion.

As for other behaviorists claiming that his methods are out dated, there are probably just as many that claim they are effective. Being outdate does not translate to abusive.

Child behavior specialists claim that spanking is out dated and abusive too. However it is effective and I have not suffered any emotional scars from being spanked.

Let those behaviorists get their own shows. I might like them too.

I can not believe in the face of any number of us that have lived through childhood abuse in many forms you post anything like this.

One out of three girls and is is one out of five boys still face abuse every day of their lives. In one form of another.


That it still goes on and on is because of your comments and many others that poop poop its effects.

Great job.


JL

PS some of these guys have Radio shows they are to busy studing and working to take the time to do a TV
show..why one lady was asked to be poster giirl..... guess how and she on TV now.

I absolutely believe that is un-professional bashing other breeders. It's one thing to maybe warn of a puppy mill situation, or health problems, etc, but it's another to completely bash. However; I think breeding and training are completely different.

But see, spanking is not abuse, in my opinion. Abuse is defined as mistreat: treat badly; maltreatment: cruel or inhumane treatment... I don't consider spanking a kid on the butt when he's done something really wrong to be abusive. I've never spanked a child and I've never been spanked (well, maybe once, actually? I don't remember) but my parents were, my grandparents, and they suffer no psychological damage from being spanked. It just made them never do it again. Abuse is if the parent regularly smacked their kids every day, punched them, gave them bruises and black eyes. Abuse is different. Just like "dominance" does NOT = "abuse". Dominance is defined as the state that exists when one person or group has power over another.... nothing about abuse.

I do not think breeding and training are different. A well rounded dog comes from good breeding (from someone who really cares about their litters) to making sure the breeding does not produce aggressive dogs to making sure they are socialized which is part of training.

A dog is not just about breeding or just about training but about the whole package.

I do not think we can just talk about puppy mill situations but we also need to talk about breeder who don't give a darn about the dogs but are breeding to make a living. They cut corners all the time. Backyard breeders are a big problem in my mind.

I have always found that if a breeder is a member here then they must be a good breeder and I can tell you that is not true (I have pictures of a breeder on here that left her dogs in an empty house and had someone dumb a bag of food every so often). Her dogs (males and females) just had a great time together but this woman can sure write like she cares. If you saw the pictures off poop a mile high and bags of dog food just ripped open it would make you sick to your stomach...but geez this breeder blamed it on someone else as she didn't live there. Why is she breeding if she doesn't even live with her dogs.

I could go on and on about poor breeders but for some reason people believe them if they post on YT but we are all allowed to bash if they are not members.

There are all different levels of spanking. Spanking CAN be abusive. It's also possible to abuse your child without laying a finger on them. It's contextual.

Spanking should not be your primary means of communication with your child. If we are going to compare Cesar's methods with spanking, this is where I have an objection. I saw several cases where the owners had made no attempts to learn how to train their dogs, or to convey their wishes in way the dog could understand. It's like if you never said a word to a child about washing their dishes, and then suddenly started spanking them every time they failed to do so.

Oh honey you most definitely are in a hole and it just got deeper. If you work a company that requires you to sign a contract of silence, it would not include illegal activity. No court would uphold any contract of that sort.

If you work for a company and have signed a contract of silence, you still have a duty to report illegal activity. If you have knowledge of illegadfl activity and do not report it you are just as guilty as the person commiting the crime.d And lastly if you care about animals you would not work for someone who abuses them.

Cesar Mulan appears to be an intelligent man. Do you think he would risk losing his sponsers, his network, his license and going to prison. Do you think the owners of these dogs would not report any abuse.

Now there might hqave been accidents on the set, and perhaps a dog in his care has even died, but I doubt that it was deliberate abuse on his part. i can see where occasionally a particularly violent dog might have gotten out of his control.

When you have worked with and trained as many dogs as he has, you will no doubt have experienced some mishaps and accidents also. A training session gone bad is bound to happen occasionally, just as it does with wild animal handlers.

So unless you know firsthand and have proof that Cesar has abused animals, I suggest that you quit slandering him. I might just have to send a link to this thread to him and let you deal with his lawyers.

Anything other than first hand is nothing but gossip, because if someone knows something that is fact, they have a duty to report it and not just gossip about it.

Warning of puppy millers does not apply because they are not professional breeders. Just as a drug dealer is not a merchant.

And what does, children being abused, have to do with what I said. That is like saying everytime you correct a child or a dog that you are abusing them.

NOT disciplining, a child or a dog, can be worse for them than being spanked.

Training is a part of breeding, but there is certainly way more to training than what we as breeders do. I deal with mischiefious puppies, Not vicious adult dogs.

So there is a huge difference. I never feel threatened by my dogs, if I did, I would not be breeding them.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Yes, I definitely agree with this.