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Next best thing to Cesar Milan in Phoenix!!! So, I just had to tell all of my fellow phoenicians about the trainers I found to work with Tucker's barking on walks and in Petsmart when we run into other dogs. To be honest, I always thought the whole psychological training, calm & submissive, caesar milan thing was complete phoey! But . . . these trainers (Babs & Linda) convinced me to let them come for a 15 minute free evaluation. After meeting them I decided to give it a try. Our first session was last Wednesday. I noticed a change right away on our walks when using the techniques they taught me. In fact, that same night, about an our after the session, I took Tucker on a walk and we encountered two little dogs that barked at tucker as soon as they saw him. Usually, tucker would bark back until i drug him out of sight. That night, he let out one solitary bark, I used the techniques, and we were back on our walk! Then today, we went to a dog park, with TONS of distractions and he behaved beautifully. The training really made a difference, and it's nice to know I can always call them or email them in the future if I have any more questions. For anyone in or around the Phoenix AZ area, I highly recommend them!! The're called B & L Dog Training. They come to you at your house or anywhere you want to meet up. Their email is nobely777@yahoo.com and the number is 480-516-3349 |
Wow.....I know u must be so relieved & excited about the changes! Wish my daughter could find a great trainer for my granpup. He's the best, except for the BARKING!!:rolleyes: WAY TO GO TUCKER!!:thumbup::good job: |
I would like to know what they actually told you to do. Jl |
I'd like to know the technique too! Maybe we can follow what you learned ! Please !!! :) |
Me too I'd like to know the technique! |
It's amazing how fast a dog will learn to respond differently when you respond differently. Wish humans were as quick to learn! :D |
I sent the trainers a link to this thread so they can come on and answer any questions. I know they can do so much better at explaining the techniques than I ever could. Kinda hard to put into words, you know? |
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Answering Next best thing to Cesar Milan in Phoenix... It was so fulfilling to help April balance her beloved Tucker to make both of their lives more satisfying and happy. Babs. my partner, is a "dog whisperer" and has helped just about every breed and age dog and its family live better lives. B&L Dog Training offers psychological training, teaching you as owners how to be the pack leader. Every dog sees itself as a member of the pack, in most cases, his human family. Most dogs are really not cut out for the job and get unbalanced, sometimes seem neurotic or compulsive about things , because they try to take the role of pack leader. Once you learn how to establish yourself as the leader with calm assertive energy and learn how to properly walk and manage your dog, who is now calm and submissive, it is amazing how quickly a dog's mind can be made to move forward and old habits die quickly. Dogs live in the moment and so we do that as well as we interact with them. Specific techniques we use include teaching the proper way to walk your dog, claiming your space, and how to establish yourself as "Pack Leader" |
Re: Next best thing to Cesar Milan in Phoenix Just want to continue to answer people's questions about how B&L Dog Training worked with April's adorable yorkie, Tucker. Tucker would bark and get so excited when he saw other dogs that April simply avoided them and stop taking Tucker to the Pet Smart and the dog park. Tucker also had an aversion to the vacuum cleaner and would attack it madly whenever April tried to clean her rugs. We were able to help her with all of these problems by teaching her training cues and proper walking techniques to let Tucker know that she was now taking over as pack leader. Babs and I first walked with April and Tucker to show her how to keep him in a calm submissive state, even when other dogs are around. We went to PetSmart with her, too, but unfortunately, there were no dogs to practice with that day. We then met at a local dog park with her several days later and once we put Tucker in a calm submissive state and he now understood that he is not the pack leader, he had a delightful time with no stress on both sides of the park, with the little dogs and with the big dogs. We worked back at the apartment to help April claim the vacuum cleaner as hers and soon Tucker would sit and look at it rather than aggressively attack it. We are glad to have been of help. If you want more info., you can contact us at 480-516 3349. We do offer free evaluations with no obligations and would love to work with you and your great little dogs. |
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What a dog is and is not : response I was really surprised to see the reply to our blog about using psychological training with all dogs as they are pack members, first and foremost. Any research done will educate you to the fact that dogs, like wolves and coyotes, all operate in the same manner. They are pack animals; they have a pack leader who, like chickens in a pecking order, are often the largest, strongest and oldest canines in the pack. This writer questions what science has proven. Every pack has a pack leader. For dogs living with humans, the dog thinks it is the pack leader if no one else asserts that leadership. It is a simple fact, not something made up by the many successful dog trainers in the world who employ it to balance dogs in a human family situation. I would direct the writer to Cesar Milan's web site to peruse his many books on the subject. As evidenced by the happy success of working with April and Tucker, psychological training does work, almost immediately. |
Well since my understanding of what a dog is is current as I do attend confrences on dog training and alike and read all I can get my hands on and work with professionals in the field. Writen by acredited people of scince. Here is my understanding. Dr Mech the wolf expert that has done more work with wolves then anyone alive has a You tube post that clear says that the wolf is not now nor ever been a pack animal. Coppinger as in Raymond and Lonre have done extensive work with dogs in the wild and have published a dog that also clearly states that dogs are not a pack animal but live in the wild as singles and maybe the pups. As the resouces do not alow the development of packs. That any fighting on a resouce site as in teh dump is over food not aplha.... and that once they leave the dump they do so as singles. Ok what else....psychological that would take not a lay person but one that packs the DVM or the PHD in behaviour like Dr Dunbar or Dr Yin or Dr McConnnell or Dr Dodman and many others that have trained long and hard to do this. Finally a wolf is not a dog and a dog is not a wolf. Looking to them to raise and work with our dogs makes as much sence as I am a related to a great ape therefore I must raise my human childern in the way they do. WE are genetically closer to an ape then a dog is to a wolf. We need to focus on the dog as it is not an unreal picture warped by wrongly understood scince and forgoing anything that is new as it always been done the alpha way. "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz Best of training. JL |
Dr Mech's speech. Conversation with Ray & Lorna Coppinger, Authors Ray Coppinger, PhD Coppingers work. The Anti-Cesar Millan / Ian Dunbar's been succeeding for 25 years with lure-reward dog training; how come he's been usurped by the flashy, aggressive TV host? Ian Dunbar just a little there is lots by the statesman of dog training on this subject. JL |
We must agree to disagree I have studied dogs for years as well and all of my scientific resources and experience continue to support our psychhological training as a wonderful tool to help dog owners. We have worked with pit bulls,pugs,yorkies,a Canary Island fighting dog, pomeranians, chows, wiemeraners, German shepards, labradoodles, just to name a few, and all have been successfully trained and balanced using our methods. As evidenced by April's blog and Tucker's improvements, it does works very well with Yorkies. I would hate for your opinion to discourage people from finding help from B&L Dog Training. We can just agree to disagree. |
We sure agree to disagree. But it still be a good idea for you to look into other methods of training that do not use the concept of pack order. Jl |
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Do you have any quick tips that could possibly help with this? I took him to obedience school when he was 6 months old, but I didn't find it to be all that great. I actually think that's where he learned to start barking! He used to be quiet as a mouse, but all the dogs in the class would bark non-stop and he started picking it up very quickly. I would like to get him a trainer, but I don't really know what to look for in a good trainer. How do I know if they'll be successful with my dog? |
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Give this lady a call and if you are not close to her to go us her skills she should be able to get you someone close. I also use or have used Carrie but she seems to be on a break for a short time K9 Fear Be Gone - Home JL |
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my post incorrectly. This video really confirms what I wrote and our psychological training teaching humans to be the 'pack leader' rather than denying it. |
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One of the first tips and direction that we give to dog owners is to make sure they are walking their dog correctly A dog should be right by your side- not dragging you . To make corrections if your dog is not just by your side "in the zone" so to speak, we ask people to place a choker or even just a regular leash wrapped through itself around the dog's neck, very high up by its ears. As the dog walks and begins to pull you or bark at things, use your arm to pull up on the leash, quickly , then releasing it, until the dog is walking at your pace by your side. This changes how the dog is thinking and begins to establish you as the pack leader. If the short quick correction, then releasing and relaxing your arm does not work, you can do a quick tap to the dog's flank with your heel, from behind. Your dog does not even know where it came from- its not punishment but a way to change the dog's thinking and attention. We also teach using a verbal cue- a loud shhhhhhhh sound at the same time as the correction. It is never a punishment or in any way hurts the dog, it is a re direction of the dog's energy and attention. You will find your dog looking to you for the next direction. Walking your dog a half hour a day, like this, begins the transition. During this working time, do not let the dog smell anything or relieve itself or have any other distraction. Its job is to walk by your side, without pulling or running in front ( which shows they are dominant) You will often be amazed at how tired they are because they are working, using their brains, moving forward from bad habits. As you finish with the training session on the walk, you can tell them 'at ease' and then let them smell around and relieve themselves before ending the walk. Rule in and out of the house, human is always first. Establishing yourself as the pack leader by walking your dog as the pack leader is the first step to rehabilitation. |
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There's just one that's been a challenge for me but she belongs to my daughter so I don't really get to work with her much. |
Sorry but I cannot agree with your training methods as you have written and enough behaviorists also do not agree with this type of training. Positive reinforcement takes longer but makes for a much better relationship with your dog. I find that people who will take shortcuts can really be harming their dogs....all any members on YT have to look at is Alaska Mike and Eddie (members here)..this is what positive training is all about. I certainly hope you would not put a choke collar on a Yorkie...you could be causing its death. To be fair, I would also like to see your website so I can make sure I am understanding your methods. |
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Fact is as Cindy very much better said that there are all to many truly trained Behaviourist that are out there that do not use your methods and work much slower and repect the animal for it true nature. Have no need to slap on a choke chain that can kill or do long term damage to small throats. As to Dr Mech he only talks about domince in a pack that is not funtioning the right way as in Yellowstone. You may want to track down his whole article. I add not only Eddie and Mike train from postive but so do I and have had great success with a few tough breeds as have a number of my associates. You may want to pop over to Karen Pryors web site and have a look see. Or you tube search Miranda Bourque have a look at hands off stuff. Tougher but a lot more fun and training should be fun even in aggression work. JL |
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Just wanted to say that these trainers were very willing to show me how to use the same walking technique with Tucker using a harness, as I was not comfortable using a collar to walk him. I will also say that the best part about the training was the opportunity to learn a bit more about Tucker. When we went to the dog park they were able to teach me how to recognize signs of aggression in others dogs, how to handle the situation of an aggressive dog approaching me and Tucker, and also learned that Tucker isn't actually aggressive at all, but instead avoident. These were very important lessons I think. |
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As for us domesticaing wolves we do not again you need to look at just how impossible it is to do even now with the tecnology we have to "tame" wolves. It is not do able. They are always wild and will turn on a dime and need to be handled in a differnt manner then a dog. Foxes are another story all together. Origin of the domestic dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Below from the link above. ""The Promise of Food/Self Domestication: Early wolves would, as scavengers, be attracted to the bones and refuse dumps of human campsites. Dr. Raymond Coppinger of Hampshire College (Massachusetts) argues[7] that those wolves that were more successful at interacting with humans would pass these traits onto their offspring, eventually creating wolves with a greater propensity to be domesticated. The "most social and least fearful" dogs were the ones who were kept around the human living areas, helping to breed those traits that are still recognized in dogs today.[5] Coppinger believes that a behavioral characteristic called "flight distance" was crucial to the transformation from wild wolf to the ancestors of the modern dog. It represents how close an animal will allow humans (or anything else it perceives as dangerous) to get before it runs away. Animals with shorter flight distances will linger, and feed, when humans are close by; this behavioral trait would have been passed on to successive generations, and amplified, creating animals that are increasingly more comfortable around humans. "My argument is that what domesticated—or tame—means is to be able to eat in the presence of human beings. That is the thing that wild wolves can't do."[8] Furthermore, selection for domesticity had the side effect of selecting genetically related physical characteristics, and behavior such as barking. Hypothetically, wolves separated into two populations – the village-oriented scavengers and the packs of hunters. The next steps have not been defined, but selective pressure must have been present to sustain the divergence of these populations. "" In closing: As for if we can or can not breed with a gorilla to my current knowledge reseach sciencists do to ethical rules can not and may I make it clear should not try. But it is unclear if it is not possible it is only speculation do to ethical and moral restraint and the yuck factor that there is not going to be an attempted. Gorllias that are in the wild and are part of reseach and even the ones we can visit are no longer allowed to be touched or get to close to as we as humans can pass on our deadly illnesses and that is as we are so genetically close. So there for we do not know in actually fact that gorillas and humans as you stated can not procreate only that we have a moral and ethical resposibility not to even go there. What would we do with the offspring? that is why it not ok to try that cringe when you read it. As for the crossing of wolves and dogs that would make the blend more wolf and wild than dommestic and therefore not trust worthy. JL |
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outcrossing/mixing of breeds. We don’t, in fact share 98.6% of our DNA with chimps; we share about 96% or less. We do share 98.6% of our nucleotide sequence. There is a BIG difference. Humans have 23 pair of chromosomes, chimps(and other apes) have 24 pair of chromosomes - off spring would not be viable. No how, no way. here are some links if you'd like to check my facts; Chimps, Humans 96 Percent the Same, Gene Study Finds Humans, Chimps Not as Closely Related as Thought? genome.gov | 2005 Release: New Genome Comparison Finds Chimps, Humans Very Similar at DNA Level WikiAnswers - Is human DNA and chimpanzee DNA 98 percent identical Furthermore, I just want to say that this irks me a bit. While I myself have been researching some alternative training methods, someone posted this thread as she had success and asked the trainers to come on here and share with us all. I just think it's a bit rude to attack them. I don't think they are abusing any of these animals and if you have a better training method, I think we'd all like to hear all about it but I just think it's a bit rude to take over someone else's thread. Sorry, maybe I'm just cranky tonight..... |
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Using 'Dominance' To Explain Dog Behavior Is Old Hat Science News Share Using 'Dominance' To Explain Dog Behavior Is Old Hat ScienceDaily (May 25, 2009) — A new study shows how the behaviour of dogs has been misunderstood for generations: in fact using misplaced ideas about dog behaviour and training is likely to cause rather than cure unwanted behaviour. The findings challenge many of the dominance related interpretations of behaviour and training techniques suggested by current TV dog trainers. Contrary to popular belief, aggressive dogs are NOT trying to assert their dominance over their canine or human “pack”, according to research published by academics at the University of Bristol’s Department of Clinical Veterinary Sciences in the Journal of Veterinary Behavior: Clinical Applications and Research. The researchers spent six months studying dogs freely interacting at a Dogs Trust rehoming centre, and reanalysing data from studies of feral dogs, before concluding that individual relationships between dogs are learnt through experience rather than motivated by a desire to assert “dominance”. The study shows that dogs are not motivated by maintaining their place in the pecking order of their pack, as many well-known dog trainers preach. Far from being helpful, the academics say, training approaches aimed at “dominance reduction” vary from being worthless in treatment to being actually dangerous and likely to make behaviours worse. Instructing owners to eat before their dog or go through doors first will not influence the dog’s overall perception of the relationship – merely teach them what to expect in these specific situations. Much worse, techniques such as pinning the dog to the floor, grabbing jowls, or blasting hooters at dogs will make dogs anxious, often about their owner, and potentially lead to an escalation of aggression. Dr Rachel Casey, Senior Lecturer in Companion Animal Behaviour and Welfare at Bristol University, said: “The blanket assumption that every dog is motivated by some innate desire to control people and other dogs is frankly ridiculous. It hugely underestimates the complex communicative and learning abilities of dogs. It also leads to the use of coercive training techniques, which compromise welfare, and actually cause problem behaviours. “In our referral clinic we very often see dogs which have learnt to show aggression to avoid anticipated punishment. Owners are often horrified when we explain that their dog is terrified of them, and is showing aggression because of the techniques they have used – but its not their fault when they have been advised to do so, or watched unqualified ‘behaviourists’ recommending such techniques on TV.” At Dogs Trust, the UK’s largest dog welfare charity, rehoming centre staff see the results of misguided dog training all the time. Veterinary Director Chris Laurence MBE, added: “We can tell when a dog comes in to us which has been subjected to the ‘dominance reduction technique’ so beloved of TV dog trainers. They can be very fearful, which can lead to aggression towards people. “Sadly, many techniques used to teach a dog that his owner is leader of the pack is counter-productive; you won’t get a better behaved dog, but you will either end up with a dog so fearful it has suppressed all its natural behaviours and will just do nothing, or one so aggressive it’s dangerous to be around.” -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Journal reference: John W.S., Bradshaw , Emily J., Blackwell , Rachel A., Casey. Dominance in domestic dogs -- useful construct or bad habit? Journal of Veterinary Behavior: Clinical Applications and Research, May/June 2009, Pages 135-144 [link] Adapted from materials provided by University of Bristol. |
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