disobedience, driving us nuts !! - YorkieTalk.com Forums

kinnykins · 02-06-2009, 12:33 PM

hi there hope someone can help us, we have a 15 month old spayed bitch, we love to take her down the beach for walks, but if we let her off lead she just runs off, i have tried treats (lasted 2 walks ) of her favorite cheese, she came back and was rewarded each time she came back, but alas now treats or not she just ignores us , we have tried treats, sweetly calling her, running in the other direction !! playing with a ball , even if she does get close shejust stays beyond reach so we cannot put her back on the lead.
She also barks excessivly outside ,its getting out of hand again as there are more and more cats moving in to the area and more barking dogs. We have tried the pennies in the jar,thanking her for barking and air spray for cleaning computers, most new things last a couple of days and then its back to taking no notice HELP !! sorry to go on so much but its really spoiling a lovely dog (I know it must be our fault somewhere )

MollysMum54 · 02-06-2009, 01:10 PM

All the books you read will say that until you can get your dogs attention in the home, it will never happen outside where there are so many more distractions. It sounds like you need to do some training in your house and garden and establish yourself as pack leader, before you venture outside. Its difficult i know. Molly is very good a lot of the time, but often when she is off the lead and running around the fields,she just ignores me when i call her back. I always take a few bits of cooked chicken (her favourite) and this does usually make her come back to me. I am trying to do lots of training inside as well, and the more i do, the better she behaves when we are out.

Nobuyuki · 02-06-2009, 01:14 PM

I have had many different breeds of dogs. Fixed and not fixed. I have always taken them to the beach...sometimes they listen perfectly and other times they take off like a bandit!

What I came up with is...to put the dog on a really long nylong thin leash and leave it on at all times. The dog does not really notice it is there and it is always handy to grab quickly if the dog decides to take off...or if you find yourself chasing the dog(haha) it is easy to step on...

Treats, whistle, etc all work, but the dog- will at sometime-take off....and it is always good to be prepared...

LOVE THE BEACH ALWAYS! A MUST FOR DOGS AND OWNERS!
GOOD LUCK
Melissa and Nobuyuki

Nancy1999 · 02-06-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinnykins

hi there hope someone can help us, we have a 15 month old spayed bitch, we love to take her down the beach for walks, but if we let her off lead she just runs off, i have tried treats (lasted 2 walks ) of her favorite cheese, she came back and was rewarded each time she came back, but alas now treats or not she just ignores us , we have tried treats, sweetly calling her, running in the other direction !! playing with a ball , even if she does get close shejust stays beyond reach so we cannot put her back on the lead.
She also barks excessivly outside ,its getting out of hand again as there are more and more cats moving in to the area and more barking dogs. We have tried the pennies in the jar,thanking her for barking and air spray for cleaning computers, most new things last a couple of days and then its back to taking no notice HELP !! sorry to go on so much but its really spoiling a lovely dog (I know it must be our fault somewhere )

Obedience isn't something you teach, and then they are perfect thereafter, it's an ongoing process. Your dog may never learn to stay by your side at the beach, you are giving him a food treat as a reward, but he is getting another reward by going off by himself, and this is an intrinsic reward, and difficult to compete with. Concerning his barking and trying many methods, I personally like pennies in a can. I use a tin can, not an aluminum can because it make a louder noise. You want the noise loud enough to get their attention, and slightly annoying. You ALWAYS have to say, "No" and shake the can at barking. One time that you allow them to get away with it, teaches them that you will give up, if they are persistent. Even though Joey is really good about not barking when I say," no", I still have to occasionally get out the can, if he persists. Nothing you do short of cutting the vocal cords works forever, your goal is to reduce the behavior and get them to stop on command. Thanking them for barking and then doing a quick check of the house, is thought to be helpful for younger dog, because they need to know that they have warned you of a possible intruder, and you will check for it, and take care of it. I did this when Joey was younger, and then told him everything was all right, and this works well for those hearing "odd noice" barks. When they are barking at some person/dog the pennies in the can is very effective. Our living room overlooks a park, so he's had plenty of practice. Outside when barking, you could carry the pennies, but I redirect his attention when he barks at a person/dog. The more consistent you are at always correcting him, the less of a fight he'll give you. They will continue to test, and you again have to be consistent.

JoeyP · 02-06-2009, 03:40 PM

One thing that I have found with all the dogs I have had
is that you never Ever chase a dog down

Once you start getting them in the habit of them playing cat and mouse with you your lost
Because then it's a game and there are WAY more interesting things they can find out there than with you
You want them to come to you?
You make it in their best interest to do so
This sometimes works
Always carry treats with you
Call them .... and make believe you are eating a treat
AND THEN
turn around and crouch down on the ground and make believe you are doing something .... make sure that they see you
and when they come
tell them what a good boy or girl they are and give them the treat
and no more repeating their names over and over again

kinnykins · 02-07-2009, 12:59 AM

thankyou everyone for your replies, looks like its back to basics again and working it back up, i think she is doing her teen age im in charge but im pack leader so i think thats perhaps where some of the issues like will keep u all posted any other ideas will be welcome, oh by the way a book i have says dont free feed kinnys only eats when she fancies it (anytime ) im worried she wont have ccess to any food when we are at work , she does nt allways eat breakfast before i go ??

Nancy1999 · 02-07-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinnykins

thankyou everyone for your replies, looks like its back to basics again and working it back up, i think she is doing her teen age im in charge but im pack leader so i think thats perhaps where some of the issues like will keep u all posted any other ideas will be welcome, oh by the way a book i have says dont free feed kinnys only eats when she fancies it (anytime ) im worried she wont have ccess to any food when we are at work , she does nt allways eat breakfast before i go ??

Free feeding is advised for all puppies, and especially the smaller breeds, due to hypoglycemia. Some say you can stop at around 8-10 months. Some dog trainers don't believe in free feeding an older dog for a variety of reasons. First, they want a dog hungry when they teach it tricks. This is the reason I choose not to free feed anymore. However, my training periods coincide with his breakfast and dinner meals, so the training doesn't interfere with his nutrition. Other dog trainers don' t believe in free feeding because of the theory "everything a dog receives he must receive from you", and they must work for their food in order for you to be seen as pack leader. I do believe in teaching a dog to sit and stay before the food is placed down, but then it can be left out with no ill effects. When choosing what's best for your dog, look at health first, and then training, starving the dog all day isn't healthy. I take a little from this trainer and that trainer. For example, I love lots of Cesar's theories, but he doesn't believe that you should allow your dog to sleep with you. Now if we were having serious problems with aggression, and that's really Cesar area of expertise, I would probably follow his advice, but since we are not; we break this rule.

Alleyman · 02-07-2009, 08:57 AM

I usually leave food out all day and night as well unless told to hold off by a vet for some medical test upcoming.

If your dog only receives his allotted daily allowance of food, i don't see any reason to hold it back unless the dog is being potty trained and his eating is a precursor to pooping.

I know all the books tell you to train your dog to eat at certain times and there may be good reason for it but I also believe the 'buffet' style of feeding is OK unless it causes problems.

If there is more than one dog in the household, you should follow the feeding time regimen so as not to allow one dog to gorge himself and the other doesn't get his fair share.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

QuickSilver · 02-07-2009, 05:05 PM

Nancy1999 is right, running off is intrinsically rewarding, so it will probably take some work to teach your dog to return reliably. Thor learned "Come" pretty quickly, but (1) he's a timid dog, which helps tremendously, and (2) we work on it constantly.

I would suggest training your dog on a long retractable leash at first so she can't get too far away from you. Bring the tastiest treats she is allowed to eat, and always reward her when she returns to you. Never scold your dog when she returns to you, since she will simply associate her return with something bad.

You can try a few other methods to get her to come back to you: try getting low to the ground, and making strange high-pitched noises. Hopefully your dog will get curious and come investigate.

Now that I expect Thor to Come on command, I do punish him if he doesn't return, but I'm careful to do it without much fanfare or emotion. I go get him (as people said, I do NOT chase him, if he runs away, I stop walking for a bit and then approach him slowly), and then put him back on his leash for a minute. Sometimes I will actually leave the park.

QuickSilver · 02-07-2009, 05:10 PM

Oh, also, if you only put her back on lead when you are leaving, she may have figured out that allowing you to put the lead on = the end of fun time.

Try putting the lead on her several times during a play session, and reward her every time you do. Hopefully that will make her more amenable to the idea of getting leashed.

Ashley V · 02-07-2009, 05:37 PM

Smokey is the worst dog I've seen off leash (and boy do I love him). I've been training Smokey with a whistle and it's been working really well. First I started off working in our house. When he was completely focused on something else and on the opposite end of the house, I would blow the whistle, immediately followed by "Smokey, come!" and he sprints towards me, even after the first time I did it. Of course, I reward. Next I took it outside in our backyard and I waited until he was sprinting around in circles. He came to me right away. Next I'm going to take him to an open field and I have a 20' lead that I'm going to use. I'm hoping by the summer I can trust him off leash. I'd love to find a large fenced in field that I can test him in.

Here is a video of it. MOV04573.flv video by elfzrkool2 - Photobucket

I'm also going to add on that I'm going to make him come and sit directly in front of me, then I'm going to grab him around his neck (not choking, you know what I mean), that way he doesn't think this is a game and run back off if I ever need to catch him, then reward him again.

zaknnana · 02-07-2009, 06:07 PM

I understand where you are coming from completely. I think Lily is going through something too?? She is 10 months old and getting wilder by the day!! She has started to bark terrible and especially in the middle of the night it is out of hand. She sleeps w/us. The past two nights I have got up and put her in her small plastic crate until she stops and then let her back out and it helps some. Although I don't want to use that for punishment cause I take her in the car in that. I figured out today that maybe when I put her in it for "punishment" for the 10-15 minutes I will take out the pad in it and maybe she will get the idea that when she stops barking she will get out?? I am going to maybe try a whistle?? She won't come to us at all even in the HOUSE!! She is very smart but even when she WANTS to be picked up she still runs away when you try to get her?? Everything is a game and I hope it is because she is still a puppy?? She pulls on a leash and barks terrible if we see a dog!! I have thought about taking her to some classes but she barks out of control at dogs on TV!!!lol I didn't realize that dogs know what is going on TV like she does!! AMAZING!!lol

02-06-2009, 12:33 PM	#1
kinnykins Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: fuertventura canary islands Posts: 149	disobedience, driving us nuts !! hi there hope someone can help us, we have a 15 month old spayed bitch, we love to take her down the beach for walks, but if we let her off lead she just runs off, i have tried treats (lasted 2 walks ) of her favorite cheese, she came back and was rewarded each time she came back, but alas now treats or not she just ignores us , we have tried treats, sweetly calling her, running in the other direction !! playing with a ball , even if she does get close shejust stays beyond reach so we cannot put her back on the lead. She also barks excessivly outside ,its getting out of hand again as there are more and more cats moving in to the area and more barking dogs. We have tried the pennies in the jar,thanking her for barking and air spray for cleaning computers, most new things last a couple of days and then its back to taking no notice HELP !! sorry to go on so much but its really spoiling a lovely dog (I know it must be our fault somewhere )

02-06-2009, 01:14 PM	#3
Nobuyuki Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oregon Coast, Oregon Posts: 88	Leash on I have had many different breeds of dogs. Fixed and not fixed. I have always taken them to the beach...sometimes they listen perfectly and other times they take off like a bandit! What I came up with is...to put the dog on a really long nylong thin leash and leave it on at all times. The dog does not really notice it is there and it is always handy to grab quickly if the dog decides to take off...or if you find yourself chasing the dog(haha) it is easy to step on... Treats, whistle, etc all work, but the dog- will at sometime-take off....and it is always good to be prepared... LOVE THE BEACH ALWAYS! A MUST FOR DOGS AND OWNERS! GOOD LUCK Melissa and Nobuyuki __________________ Nobuyuki on the Oregon Coast

02-06-2009, 03:40 PM	#5
JoeyP YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami, FL,USA Posts: 1,005	One thing that I have found with all the dogs I have had is that you never Ever chase a dog down Once you start getting them in the habit of them playing cat and mouse with you your lost Because then it's a game and there are WAY more interesting things they can find out there than with you You want them to come to you? You make it in their best interest to do so This sometimes works Always carry treats with you Call them .... and make believe you are eating a treat AND THEN turn around and crouch down on the ground and make believe you are doing something .... make sure that they see you and when they come tell them what a good boy or girl they are and give them the treat and no more repeating their names over and over again __________________ Mike and Zach's Dadd

02-07-2009, 05:37 PM	#11
Ashley V ♥ Chip ♥ Smokey ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Leesburg Posts: 3,835	Smokey is the worst dog I've seen off leash (and boy do I love him). I've been training Smokey with a whistle and it's been working really well. First I started off working in our house. When he was completely focused on something else and on the opposite end of the house, I would blow the whistle, immediately followed by "Smokey, come!" and he sprints towards me, even after the first time I did it. Of course, I reward. Next I took it outside in our backyard and I waited until he was sprinting around in circles. He came to me right away. Next I'm going to take him to an open field and I have a 20' lead that I'm going to use. I'm hoping by the summer I can trust him off leash. I'd love to find a large fenced in field that I can test him in. Here is a video of it. MOV04573.flv video by elfzrkool2 - Photobucket I'm also going to add on that I'm going to make him come and sit directly in front of me, then I'm going to grab him around his neck (not choking, you know what I mean), that way he doesn't think this is a game and run back off if I ever need to catch him, then reward him again. __________________ ~~ Chip ~~ Smokey ~*~ My heart is wrapped around their little paws Karley Marissa born 1/20/12 weighing 8 lbs 11 oz and 21.5 inches long

02-06-2009, 01:10 PM	#2
MollysMum54 YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: England,UK Posts: 1,176	All the books you read will say that until you can get your dogs attention in the home, it will never happen outside where there are so many more distractions. It sounds like you need to do some training in your house and garden and establish yourself as pack leader, before you venture outside. Its difficult i know. Molly is very good a lot of the time, but often when she is off the lead and running around the fields,she just ignores me when i call her back. I always take a few bits of cooked chicken (her favourite) and this does usually make her come back to me. I am trying to do lots of training inside as well, and the more i do, the better she behaves when we are out.

02-07-2009, 12:59 AM	#6
kinnykins Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: fuertventura canary islands Posts: 149	thankyou everyone for your replies, looks like its back to basics again and working it back up, i think she is doing her teen age im in charge but im pack leader so i think thats perhaps where some of the issues like will keep u all posted any other ideas will be welcome, oh by the way a book i have says dont free feed kinnys only eats when she fancies it (anytime ) im worried she wont have ccess to any food when we are at work , she does nt allways eat breakfast before i go ??

02-07-2009, 08:57 AM	#8
Alleyman YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1	I usually leave food out all day and night as well unless told to hold off by a vet for some medical test upcoming. If your dog only receives his allotted daily allowance of food, i don't see any reason to hold it back unless the dog is being potty trained and his eating is a precursor to pooping. I know all the books tell you to train your dog to eat at certain times and there may be good reason for it but I also believe the 'buffet' style of feeding is OK unless it causes problems. If there is more than one dog in the household, you should follow the feeding time regimen so as not to allow one dog to gorge himself and the other doesn't get his fair share. That's my opinion for what it's worth.

02-07-2009, 05:05 PM	#9
QuickSilver Thor's Human Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,929 Blog Entries: 31	Nancy1999 is right, running off is intrinsically rewarding, so it will probably take some work to teach your dog to return reliably. Thor learned "Come" pretty quickly, but (1) he's a timid dog, which helps tremendously, and (2) we work on it constantly. I would suggest training your dog on a long retractable leash at first so she can't get too far away from you. Bring the tastiest treats she is allowed to eat, and always reward her when she returns to you. Never scold your dog when she returns to you, since she will simply associate her return with something bad. You can try a few other methods to get her to come back to you: try getting low to the ground, and making strange high-pitched noises. Hopefully your dog will get curious and come investigate. Now that I expect Thor to Come on command, I do punish him if he doesn't return, but I'm careful to do it without much fanfare or emotion. I go get him (as people said, I do NOT chase him, if he runs away, I stop walking for a bit and then approach him slowly), and then put him back on his leash for a minute. Sometimes I will actually leave the park.

02-07-2009, 05:10 PM	#10
QuickSilver Thor's Human Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,929 Blog Entries: 31	Oh, also, if you only put her back on lead when you are leaving, she may have figured out that allowing you to put the lead on = the end of fun time. Try putting the lead on her several times during a play session, and reward her every time you do. Hopefully that will make her more amenable to the idea of getting leashed.

02-07-2009, 06:07 PM	#12
zaknnana YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: WV Posts: 309	I understand where you are coming from completely. I think Lily is going through something too?? She is 10 months old and getting wilder by the day!! She has started to bark terrible and especially in the middle of the night it is out of hand. She sleeps w/us. The past two nights I have got up and put her in her small plastic crate until she stops and then let her back out and it helps some. Although I don't want to use that for punishment cause I take her in the car in that. I figured out today that maybe when I put her in it for "punishment" for the 10-15 minutes I will take out the pad in it and maybe she will get the idea that when she stops barking she will get out?? I am going to maybe try a whistle?? She won't come to us at all even in the HOUSE!! She is very smart but even when she WANTS to be picked up she still runs away when you try to get her?? Everything is a game and I hope it is because she is still a puppy?? She pulls on a leash and barks terrible if we see a dog!! I have thought about taking her to some classes but she barks out of control at dogs on TV!!!lol I didn't realize that dogs know what is going on TV like she does!! AMAZING!!lol