Teaching Stay - Hopeless - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Deegan's mom · 08-16-2005, 06:15 AM

I've taught Deegan to sit, down, walk on a leash properly. But stay seems to be hopeless! He won't stay for anything. As soon as he sits I give him a treat, but then he gets up like he's done. I try to place him back in sit and tell him to stay, and back up a bit, but the second that I move back he gets up. Maybe I need to get my bf to help me? Does anyone have any tips on teaching stay?

rrosenberry · 08-16-2005, 06:18 AM

Me too... Bailey still wont Stay or Come... Only when HE wants!
Even, after Obedience school.

yorkiegold · 08-16-2005, 06:31 AM

This is from Sue Ailsby's Training Levels. The goal is to train your dog to sit and stay while you walk 20' and back. This is an amazing website and I particularly posted this because of the 300 Peck method for teaching stay. It works. You start by having them stay for a count of 1, then 2, then 3, etc. If they break the stay, you start over at 1, then 2, then 3, etc.

LEVEL TWO

Dog Sits and Stays while partner walks 20’ away and back. Partner may give extra cues while away. An official “return” is not required.

DISCUSSION: The good thing about teaching the DownStay before the SitStay is that the DownStay is easy for the dog to understand. The bad thing about teaching it first is that it will be natural for the dog to think that any duration requires a Down. Important not to get frustrated here! This is a very difficult concept to get across – I don't mean Down, I mean hold whatever position I put you in.

EASY BEGINNINGS: Ask for a Sit, then Rapid-Fire ten c/t in a row while she's sitting, just to get her thinking about the Sit. Then start 300-Peck Sits – ask for a Sit, count to one, c/t. TRY to put the food right in her mouth after each of these counted Sits. If you can't, it's not the end of the world, but try. Sit, count to 2, c/t. Sit, 3, c/t, and so on. Your criteria are important here. Under no circumstances do you want to tell a dog that she can move ANYTHING but her head or tail during a Stay, so if she moves ONE paw, or shifts her bum, she's broken the position. Under 10 seconds, if she breaks the position, give her a Rapid-Fire X5 and start your count over again from one second. Over 10 seconds, you can leave out the RF and just start from one again.

PROBLEM SOLVING:

SHE GETS UP WHEN I CLICK!

a) No problem, the click ends the behaviour. That means that when you click, she ALREADY did what you wanted her to. Problem solved.
b) If you think it would be best if she didn't get up when you click, stand closer, be ready to put the treat right in her mouth when you click. Try 10 one-second stays, then 10 two-second stays, and build up that way until she's decided she might as well remain sitting. Ailsby's Principle of Laziness says she WILL decide to remain in position if she knows the next thing you're going to do is… lemme take a wild guess here, 217 Sits in a row, maybe it'll be another SIT?! Why bother getting up when you're just going to ask her to Sit again? ALWAYS REMEMBER, though, that the click ended the behaviour. If you're too slow and she does get up, just ask her to Sit and start again.

WE'RE UP TO THREE MINUTES AND I'M SO BORED WITH INCREASING ONE SECOND AT A TIME I COULD SCREAM! Okay, okay. Dogs don't get bored but people certainly do. When she's reliably and cheerfully doing a solid 60-second SitStay, you can try increasing your duration five seconds at a time. Of course, if it doesn't work, you're back to one second at a time!

SHE MOVES WHEN I'M AWAY FROM HER! A real strong point of the clicker is that you can reward behaviour that's happening when you aren't right with the dog. If she SitStays for 10 seconds at 10', you return, click and give her a treat, you're rewarding her for staying when you're right in front of her. The whole ten seconds and ten feet distance was incidental. Fine if she's understanding it, but it doesn't give you any way of fixing a problem that doesn't involve you right in front of her. For instance, if she's standing up when you take the first step to come back to her. With the clicker, though, you can fix this easily. You KNOW when she's going to break. It isn't random (if it IS random, you're probably dealing with an attention problem, or why the heck are you asking for so much? Go back to whatever time and distance gives you ten times right!). She breaks when you take the first step to return? Fine. Click and THEN return X10. Then tighten your thigh muscle in one leg, click and return X10. Then tighten, lift that leg just off the floor, click and return X10. Then tighten, lift and plant that foot, click and return X10 (oh my gosh, you just took a step and she didn't break!). And so on. And if she breaks after the click? Of course she can, the click ends the behaviour!

ADDING A CUE: When you have the behaviour the way you want it and up to at least twenty seconds, start telling her that it has another name besides Sit. I use Stay (I don't bother with Wait, myself), and my hand signal is a fist with a thumbs-up, though a more common one is showing the dog your flat palm.

CONTINUING EDUCATION: When the dog understands that you're paying for her to remain in the Sit position until you click, start doing the "stay dance" – move to the left, to the right, clap your hands, wave your arms, do jumping jacks, turn around. Start moving away from her – remember, though, that when you make one part of a behaviour more difficult, you make everything else about it easier. That means if she's doing a ten-second SitStay with you right in front of her, and you want to move a step away from her, you lower the time to two seconds, or however long it takes you to take that step out and back.
http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOG...g1/levels.html

Kaluiah · 08-16-2005, 06:54 AM

I have taught Ramsey to sit and stay that way... If only house training was that easy!!

Hickey007 · 08-16-2005, 06:55 AM

This is the way we were taught when we went through obedience training with our bloodhound. Its easier if you have two people. Put the dog on a leash, have one person doing the holding the other doing the commands. The person holding the dog should be a little behind the dog so the dog doesn't focus their attention on this person rather than the person doing the commands. The command person tells the dogs to sit then tells it to stay (I also use hand motions, in this case a open hand like stop right in front of the dog's nose). That person can then slowly back up a little and if the dog starts to get up the person with the leash puts a little tension on the leash to hold the dogs still and if needed puts the dog back into the sit position(always in the exact same spot). Slowly you will be able to go further away.

If you are alone in the beginning just stay close enough so that you can hold the leash in a way to control the dog. If the dog gets up just kind of lean over and pull the leash a bit so that its pulling from behind to get the dog back into sit.

They said it waas very important that if the dog ever got up to put them back in the same spot otherwise the dog hasn't stayed it has been able to move.

Hope this can help.

yorkieagility · 08-16-2005, 07:50 AM

Here is something to try. Tell him to sitstay. Take a small step backward then foward and praise for a good stay. Don't move farther than 6" at the beginning. Correct if he get up. You should be close enough to be able to do it. As he is more solid with his stay move back a little bit further until you are able to have him stay at a distance.

chachi · 08-16-2005, 09:32 AM

I taught my dog how Yorkieagility told you how to do it.

Deegan's mom · 08-19-2005, 12:14 PM

Thanks everyone for your advice. I tried it the way yorieagility recommended. I practiced with him for 2 sessions, about 15 minutes at a time, so that he wouldn't lose to much interest. He wasn't doing so hot. So I decided that I would wait 'til the next day for the next session. So the next day, I go to practice with him and my boyfriend blurts out "I taught him that today".
My boyfriend knew that I was trying to teach him that, so he decided to practise with him while I was at work, and apparently Deegan caught on!!!

I was so happy. Julien demonstrated with Deegan and he was awesome!
Julien would back up about 15 feet or so, and Deegan would actually stay!! He said the key was to use something he really likes as a treat. I was using liver bits, and he does like them. But Julien tried it with cheese, which Deegan doesn't get much of - so, we found our magic treat!!!
I am so happy. Thanks for the encouragement! My boys are the best!

orinskye · 08-19-2005, 12:40 PM

toby thinks sit and down are the same thing

(i taught him down first) hes getting it now..... he gets stay really well too, but i always stay next to toby and throw a toy, he stays until i say "ok" then he goes to get the toy

troubletb · 08-19-2005, 12:48 PM

I have been successful in teaching Bell to stay in the house. But When outside NO WAY.
Don't give any treats when you tell him to sit, He knows that trick already. Now, Tell him to sit, put your hand up in a stop and tell him stay. (If he gets up put him back) and do it over and over again. Go, 1 step away, and prasie him, next time go 2 steps away, and so on.. Good luck!

yorkieagility · 08-19-2005, 01:21 PM

Good going Julien and Deegan!

Shanatink · 08-19-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deegan's mom

I've taught Deegan to sit, down, walk on a leash properly. But stay seems to be hopeless! He won't stay for anything. As soon as he sits I give him a treat, but then he gets up like he's done. I try to place him back in sit and tell him to stay, and back up a bit, but the second that I move back he gets up. Maybe I need to get my bf to help me? Does anyone have any tips on teaching stay?

I have given up on this too. CHloe just gets really excited whenever I say "stay" and starts to jump up and down.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 08-19-2005, 09:38 PM

I find that the clicker really re enfoces the behavior. Sound slike he is getting it now. Congratulations!

08-16-2005, 06:15 AM	#1
Deegan's mom YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Posts: 1,271	Teaching Stay - Hopeless I've taught Deegan to sit, down, walk on a leash properly. But stay seems to be hopeless! He won't stay for anything. As soon as he sits I give him a treat, but then he gets up like he's done. I try to place him back in sit and tell him to stay, and back up a bit, but the second that I move back he gets up. Maybe I need to get my bf to help me? Does anyone have any tips on teaching stay? __________________ Jayde, Deegan & Trooper ~Be the change you wish to see in the world - Adopt a rescue pet~

08-16-2005, 06:18 AM	#2
rrosenberry & Bailey & Bella Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,164	Me too... Bailey still wont Stay or Come... Only when HE wants! Even, after Obedience school. __________________ Rhonda, Bailey, Josie and my angel Bella Rue' "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." ~Anatole France~

08-16-2005, 06:55 AM	#5
Hickey007 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 789	This is the way we were taught when we went through obedience training with our bloodhound. Its easier if you have two people. Put the dog on a leash, have one person doing the holding the other doing the commands. The person holding the dog should be a little behind the dog so the dog doesn't focus their attention on this person rather than the person doing the commands. The command person tells the dogs to sit then tells it to stay (I also use hand motions, in this case a open hand like stop right in front of the dog's nose). That person can then slowly back up a little and if the dog starts to get up the person with the leash puts a little tension on the leash to hold the dogs still and if needed puts the dog back into the sit position(always in the exact same spot). Slowly you will be able to go further away. If you are alone in the beginning just stay close enough so that you can hold the leash in a way to control the dog. If the dog gets up just kind of lean over and pull the leash a bit so that its pulling from behind to get the dog back into sit. They said it waas very important that if the dog ever got up to put them back in the same spot otherwise the dog hasn't stayed it has been able to move. Hope this can help. __________________ Courtney

08-16-2005, 09:32 AM	#7
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	I taught my dog how Yorkieagility told you how to do it. __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

08-19-2005, 12:14 PM	#8
Deegan's mom YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Posts: 1,271	Thanks everyone for your advice. I tried it the way yorieagility recommended. I practiced with him for 2 sessions, about 15 minutes at a time, so that he wouldn't lose to much interest. He wasn't doing so hot. So I decided that I would wait 'til the next day for the next session. So the next day, I go to practice with him and my boyfriend blurts out "I taught him that today". My boyfriend knew that I was trying to teach him that, so he decided to practise with him while I was at work, and apparently Deegan caught on!!! I was so happy. Julien demonstrated with Deegan and he was awesome! Julien would back up about 15 feet or so, and Deegan would actually stay!! He said the key was to use something he really likes as a treat. I was using liver bits, and he does like them. But Julien tried it with cheese, which Deegan doesn't get much of - so, we found our magic treat!!! I am so happy. Thanks for the encouragement! My boys are the best! __________________ Jayde, Deegan & Trooper ~Be the change you wish to see in the world - Adopt a rescue pet~

08-16-2005, 06:31 AM	#3
yorkiegold BANNED! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 215	This is from Sue Ailsby's Training Levels. The goal is to train your dog to sit and stay while you walk 20' and back. This is an amazing website and I particularly posted this because of the 300 Peck method for teaching stay. It works. You start by having them stay for a count of 1, then 2, then 3, etc. If they break the stay, you start over at 1, then 2, then 3, etc. LEVEL TWO Dog Sits and Stays while partner walks 20’ away and back. Partner may give extra cues while away. An official “return” is not required. DISCUSSION: The good thing about teaching the DownStay before the SitStay is that the DownStay is easy for the dog to understand. The bad thing about teaching it first is that it will be natural for the dog to think that any duration requires a Down. Important not to get frustrated here! This is a very difficult concept to get across – I don't mean Down, I mean hold whatever position I put you in. EASY BEGINNINGS: Ask for a Sit, then Rapid-Fire ten c/t in a row while she's sitting, just to get her thinking about the Sit. Then start 300-Peck Sits – ask for a Sit, count to one, c/t. TRY to put the food right in her mouth after each of these counted Sits. If you can't, it's not the end of the world, but try. Sit, count to 2, c/t. Sit, 3, c/t, and so on. Your criteria are important here. Under no circumstances do you want to tell a dog that she can move ANYTHING but her head or tail during a Stay, so if she moves ONE paw, or shifts her bum, she's broken the position. Under 10 seconds, if she breaks the position, give her a Rapid-Fire X5 and start your count over again from one second. Over 10 seconds, you can leave out the RF and just start from one again. PROBLEM SOLVING: SHE GETS UP WHEN I CLICK! a) No problem, the click ends the behaviour. That means that when you click, she ALREADY did what you wanted her to. Problem solved. b) If you think it would be best if she didn't get up when you click, stand closer, be ready to put the treat right in her mouth when you click. Try 10 one-second stays, then 10 two-second stays, and build up that way until she's decided she might as well remain sitting. Ailsby's Principle of Laziness says she WILL decide to remain in position if she knows the next thing you're going to do is… lemme take a wild guess here, 217 Sits in a row, maybe it'll be another SIT?! Why bother getting up when you're just going to ask her to Sit again? ALWAYS REMEMBER, though, that the click ended the behaviour. If you're too slow and she does get up, just ask her to Sit and start again. WE'RE UP TO THREE MINUTES AND I'M SO BORED WITH INCREASING ONE SECOND AT A TIME I COULD SCREAM! Okay, okay. Dogs don't get bored but people certainly do. When she's reliably and cheerfully doing a solid 60-second SitStay, you can try increasing your duration five seconds at a time. Of course, if it doesn't work, you're back to one second at a time! SHE MOVES WHEN I'M AWAY FROM HER! A real strong point of the clicker is that you can reward behaviour that's happening when you aren't right with the dog. If she SitStays for 10 seconds at 10', you return, click and give her a treat, you're rewarding her for staying when you're right in front of her. The whole ten seconds and ten feet distance was incidental. Fine if she's understanding it, but it doesn't give you any way of fixing a problem that doesn't involve you right in front of her. For instance, if she's standing up when you take the first step to come back to her. With the clicker, though, you can fix this easily. You KNOW when she's going to break. It isn't random (if it IS random, you're probably dealing with an attention problem, or why the heck are you asking for so much? Go back to whatever time and distance gives you ten times right!). She breaks when you take the first step to return? Fine. Click and THEN return X10. Then tighten your thigh muscle in one leg, click and return X10. Then tighten, lift that leg just off the floor, click and return X10. Then tighten, lift and plant that foot, click and return X10 (oh my gosh, you just took a step and she didn't break!). And so on. And if she breaks after the click? Of course she can, the click ends the behaviour! ADDING A CUE: When you have the behaviour the way you want it and up to at least twenty seconds, start telling her that it has another name besides Sit. I use Stay (I don't bother with Wait, myself), and my hand signal is a fist with a thumbs-up, though a more common one is showing the dog your flat palm. CONTINUING EDUCATION: When the dog understands that you're paying for her to remain in the Sit position until you click, start doing the "stay dance" – move to the left, to the right, clap your hands, wave your arms, do jumping jacks, turn around. Start moving away from her – remember, though, that when you make one part of a behaviour more difficult, you make everything else about it easier. That means if she's doing a ten-second SitStay with you right in front of her, and you want to move a step away from her, you lower the time to two seconds, or however long it takes you to take that step out and back. http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOG...g1/levels.html

08-16-2005, 06:54 AM	#4
Kaluiah Ramsey little Devil in disguise Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here Posts: 985	I have taught Ramsey to sit and stay that way... If only house training was that easy!!

08-16-2005, 07:50 AM	#6
yorkieagility YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: House Of York Posts: 1,079	Here is something to try. Tell him to sitstay. Take a small step backward then foward and praise for a good stay. Don't move farther than 6" at the beginning. Correct if he get up. You should be close enough to be able to do it. As he is more solid with his stay move back a little bit further until you are able to have him stay at a distance.

08-19-2005, 12:40 PM	#9
orinskye YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,990	toby thinks sit and down are the same thing (i taught him down first) hes getting it now..... he gets stay really well too, but i always stay next to toby and throw a toy, he stays until i say "ok" then he goes to get the toy

08-19-2005, 12:48 PM	#10
troubletb Love my Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Port Richey, Florida Posts: 2,339	I have been successful in teaching Bell to stay in the house. But When outside NO WAY. Don't give any treats when you tell him to sit, He knows that trick already. Now, Tell him to sit, put your hand up in a stop and tell him stay. (If he gets up put him back) and do it over and over again. Go, 1 step away, and prasie him, next time go 2 steps away, and so on.. Good luck! __________________ Karen~ Bell, Lilly and Peter's Mom Rest in Peace <3

08-19-2005, 01:21 PM	#11
yorkieagility YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: House Of York Posts: 1,079	Good going Julien and Deegan!

08-19-2005, 09:38 PM	#13
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	I find that the clicker really re enfoces the behavior. Sound slike he is getting it now. Congratulations!