Natalies Wee Yorkies

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Oh I dont know........breeders have to get their name out there thru advertisement.......ONCE established, one may not have to advertise quite so much......it will be MOSTLY word of mouth and referrals, but you still have to have exposure....you can not sell puppies to qualified buyers if you dont have a large enough pool of people to look at, if you are trying to establish yourself as a responsible breeder....if this is going to be a legitimate business you are trying to start up.....now, I would imagine byb dont need to advertise, as they can stick a sign at the intersection, like you do with garage sales.....THEY dont need to advertise because all they have to get sold are 3-4 babies, that is going to provide some quick cash for the weekend trip with the kids to Six Flags, or pay for that flower bed you are having put in, or even for the groceries needed to feed the family that is coming for Thanksgiving dinner. I think good breeders DO need to advertise.....I can not imagine having a successful BUSINESS of ANY kind, if no one knows you exist! (Let me add, I too purchased a puppy from a breeder that I got from this forum, YEARS ago....and she has since been closed down as a puppy mill....she was VERY active in her posts, and the little dogs I bought from her were both ill from genetic conditions that led to their deaths....no resolution for me from this breeder either.)

Sorry to make it sound so black and white, but I do think a good breeder goes more by word of mouth than they do advertising. I believe a good breeder is working with a mentor and going to shows and establishing a name for herself, before she ever breeds the first pup. I don’t believe the goal of a “good” breeder should ever be to sell pups, but to improve the breed. I can certainly understand websites that describe someone’s breeding program, as long as you can’t purchase a dog from the website, and I can understand discrete advertising for new breeders, (can a new breeder be described as good?), but I do not believe in this “featured breeders” advertising that YorkieTalk has. I think it gives Yorkietalk members a false sense of confidence in these breeders, and why would a person have to reach THAT many people? How many dogs are they breeding? Bottom line is I don't think dog breeding should be a "business". I think it's impossible to do what's right for the dogs if it's profit motivated. Too many people refuse to take a dog out of their breeding program that they suspect has a genetic defect and I believe this goes back to the "business" element. This is just my opinion and I realize not everyone shares it.

[YorkOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

A good breeder doesn't advertise.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Sorry to make it sound so black and white, but I do think a good breeder goes more by word of mouth than they do advertising. I believe a good breeder is working with a mentor and going to shows and establishing a name for herself, before she ever breeds the first pup. I don’t believe the goal of a “good” breeder should ever be to sell pups, but to improve the breed. I can certainly understand websites that describe someone’s breeding program, as long as you can’t purchase a dog from the website, and I can understand discrete advertising for new breeders, (can a new breeder be described as good?), but I do not believe in this “featured breeders” advertising that YorkieTalk has. I think it gives Yorkietalk members a false sense of confidence in these breeders, and why would a person have to reach THAT many people? How many dogs are they breeding? Bottom line is I don't think dog breeding should be a "business". I think it's impossible to do what's right for the dogs if it's profit motivated. Too many people refuse to take a dog out of their breeding program that they suspect has a genetic defect and I believe this goes back to the "business" element. This is just my opinion and I realize not everyone shares it.

[Yorkiemom1]

Kind of hard to "make a name for yourself even before you breed the first pup" if you dont have a "product" to show off! You can make a name for yourself as someone that hangs out at shows, and you can absorb information a mentor feeds you.....but until you actually breed and produce your first litter, you are nothing more than possibly a knowledgable show groupie! So now, with all that studying, researching, running around to all the shows, meeting and greeting all the show people, here you are....no puppies, no advertising....no one knows if you can even put all that book learning to good use....I am not sure what kind of a name you have made for yourself, or what you can call yourself, but it sure aint "breeder"!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Kind of hard to "make a name for yourself even before you breed the first pup" if you dont have a "product" to show off! You can make a name for yourself as someone that hangs out at shows, and you can absorb information a mentor feeds you.....but until you actually breed and produce your first litter, you are nothing more than possibly a knowledgable show groupie! So now, with all that studying, researching, running around to all the shows, meeting and greeting all the show people, here you are....no puppies, no advertising....no one knows if you can even put all that book learning to good use....I am not sure what kind of a name you have made for yourself, or what you can call yourself, but it sure aint "breeder"!

I believe we all make a name for ourselves, even before we breed pups. I also believe in showing dogs before you breed them. Only the best examples of the breed and healthiest should be bred, in my opinion. I'm sure you meet lots of contacts through shows, and joining breed clubs can introduce you to people. You have family, and people you know through various things. I would think other breeders would refer people if they knew you and your program. I also think it's wise to wait to breed the dogs until you have people lined up who would make suitable pet owners. I see nothing wrong with visiting dog forums and making a name for yourself on the dog forum. My problem with advertising is that I don't think they are selective in who they sell to. You don't have to read Yorkietalk for long to realize many people buy a dog, who have no business buying a dog. Because of my past experienced with dog, I personally would not select a new breeder to purchase a dog from, unless they had been working closely with a mentor. I would want someone with experience, who had studied breeding for years before they took it up. I want someone who truly knows what they are doing. This is what I call a good breeder. While I don't think a breeder should be losing money breeding, I really don't think people should breed for profit. Breeding should be more of a "calling".

[makemepretty]

Honestly, I love a good website. I like to see pictures of the parents, past puppies and what they've grown up to look like. Anyone can have a website, it doesn't make them a good or bad breeder in my opinion. I have my own website for a hobby I do(I don't make any money, I just put stupid information on it about celebrities and their perfumes), my husband has a website for his construction jobs. If you love your dogs and breed them responsibly a website actually helps.

In fact, I would rather buy from someone who does that (and there are some awesome reputable breeders out there) than from what is local and in the paper around here. Those are usually small back yard breeders who love their pets but aren't breeding responsibly, they have litters and sell them to make a little cash for extra money. That's not what I want. I can't tell you how many times someone has told me my Lola is cute and small and I should breed her. They don't realize what a good breeder is, they think anyone who owns a dog can do it.

[makemepretty]

This thread is getting a little off track, it's not Natalie's website that makes her a bad breeder. It's that she KNOWS her line has genetic problems and she is still cranking out litter after litter after litter...and if your dog dies or there is something wrong with it she just offers to replace it(even if she charges you for that replacement). FAMILY MEMBERS ARE NOT REPLACEABLE.

She is not a caring breeder, she is selling dogs that will die too soon or live with problems. They are cute but that is not what a responsible, caring human being does to an animal they love so that they can line their pocket books and go on vacations!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by makemepretty

Honestly, I love a good website. I like to see pictures of the parents, past puppies and what they've grown up to look like. Anyone can have a website, it doesn't make them a good or bad breeder in my opinion. I have my own website for a hobby I do(I don't make any money, I just put stupid information on it about celebrities and their perfumes), my husband has a website for his construction jobs. If you love your dogs and breed them responsibly a website actually helps.

In fact, I would rather buy from someone who does that (and there are some awesome reputable breeders out there) than from what is local and in the paper around here. Those are usually small back yard breeders who love their pets but aren't breeding responsibly, they have litters and sell them to make a little cash for extra money. That's not what I want. I can't tell you how many times someone has told me my Lola is cute and small and I should breed her. They don't realize what a good breeder is, they think anyone who owns a dog can do it.

Oh I totally agree with you, I think a website can give you a closer look at the breeder and her breeding program. What I'm against is those breeders who SELL from their websites, they have PayPal on the website and will sell to anyone who has the money. This is no different than a pet store, and at least those breeders who sell to pet stores have to be inspected. Not so with breeders who sell directly to the public over the internet. A good breeder wants to meet with the prospective parents, and it's important that she places her offspring in safe responsible homes. High volume breeders don't care about this.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by makemepretty

This thread is getting a little off track, it's not Natalie's website that makes her a bad breeder. It's that she KNOWS her line has genetic problems and she is still cranking out litter after litter after litter...and if your dog dies or there is something wrong with it she just offers to replace it(even if she charges you for that replacement). FAMILY MEMBERS ARE NOT REPLACEABLE.

She is not a caring breeder, she is selling dogs that will die too soon or live with problems. They are cute but that is not what a responsible, caring human being does to an animal they love so that they can line their pocket books and go on vacations!

Bingo!!!

Even if you have been a reputable breeder for 30 years give your dogs the best possible confort and care...its what you do when STUFF happens that shows your true colors.

Heck I know a BYB who threw together way off standard dogs and sold them as pets only... on full AKC...HOWEVER when LS popped up in her dogs pups she ended her line, she told everyone and took responsibility. She even offered to pay for the pups she had sold to be spayed and neutered so no more sick pups were produced.

She cause irriversible damage and I assure everyone I've chatted with her on FB while she's unable to sleep knowing pups she sold were being bred passing LS on.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Bingo!!!

Even if you have been a reputable breeder for 30 years give your dogs the best possible confort and care...its what you do when STUFF happens that shows your true colors.

Heck I know a BYB who threw together way off standard dogs and sold them as pets only... on full AKC...HOWEVER when LS popped up in her dogs pups she ended her line, she told everyone and took responsibility. She even offered to pay for the pups she had sold to be spayed and neutered so no more sick pups were produced.

She cause irriversible damage and I assure everyone I've chatted with her on FB while she's unable to sleep knowing pups she sold were being bred passing LS on.

This is one of the things that most bother me about BYB or inexperienced breeders or those who breed for profit. They are willing to sell breeding dogs to others before they really know their line.

Also, it wasn't the fact she had a website, it was the fact that she was a "Featured Breeder" here, and I believe that term makes members think that these breeders are good.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by makemepretty

This thread is getting a little off track, it's not Natalie's website that makes her a bad breeder. It's that she KNOWS her line has genetic problems and she is still cranking out litter after litter after litter...and if your dog dies or there is something wrong with it she just offers to replace it(even if she charges you for that replacement). FAMILY MEMBERS ARE NOT REPLACEABLE.

She is not a caring breeder, she is selling dogs that will die too soon or live with problems. They are cute but that is not what a responsible, caring human being does to an animal they love so that they can line their pocket books and go on vacations!

Not good at all......not for the people that fall in love with that little baby, then go through the heartache (and $$$$) of loosing the baby from something that could have already been isolated and detected from previous litters, from a particular breeding pair. Certainly not good for the baby, that did not ask to be brought into the world, suffering from a genetic defect that is at least painful, at worse, deadly. And not good for the breed itself....proprogating genetically ill babies, which are then often times bred themselves, carrying on the defect and multiplying it exponentially (sp) in severity.

[makemepretty]

A lady posted the following on Natalies Facebook page. It's how much she loved her puppies from her but READ what she wrote:
"I would like to share with all of your friend the experience that I have had purchasing puppies from you. First of all I want to let them know that you have the most beautiful puppies out there. Second of all, for some reason they are so much smarter, more happy than other yorkies from a different place. They are very active as well. I first bought two girls from Natalie and she send them by airplane. Then unfortunately one of them past away, I we recently bought a new baby girl from her. Her name is Maya she is the most adorable girl, very happy, smart and active. We decided to pick her up and we drove to South Dakota, I have to say that I didn't expect to see so many beautiful dog. For those of you who haven't visit Natalie, well let me tell you, all of her dogs, except for the babies, the new moms and the ones in heat, they are free to run around the house; although, she has many dogs, they are all clean, brush, dress and feed. They have access to food and water all the time, and she keeps her house very clean because it doesn't smell bad. When I picked up Maya, I met a wonderful little puppy, his name is Gabriel, he is sick and he is very fragile and you can see how much Natalie loves this little guy and that's when I realize what a good person Natalie is and what a great breeder she is, because a different person would have put this puppy to sleep but she decided to keep him; even though, he requires more care. So, if any of you is wondering what kind of person and breeder Natalie is, well I hope this helps you; otherwise, you can go to her house and confirm what I just said. Thanks Natalie for taking care of all of your babies and ours. Take care and Gad bless you."

This is her glowing review from another purchaser???? Her puppy died so she bought another one from her-BOUGHT and while she was there she saw a very sick and fragile puppy. That accurately describes Natalies business practices to a T. She has sick puppies and her puppies die before they're old, yet she has a whole bunch of more litters because she needs those replacements.

[concretegurl]

Wow can we say read between the lines!?

Ya know what else bothers me if she allows for all dog to free roam even females in heat...gee how is it anyone can trust the lineage sounds like a free for all breeding program in the least.

Watch she'll come on and say she DNAs all the dogs and pups...

So glad the author listed the name of the sick pup...that may be critical info for a later buyer.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Wow can we say read between the lines!?

Ya know what else bothers me if she allows for all dog to free roam even females in heat...gee how is it anyone can trust the lineage sounds like a free for all breeding program in the least.Watch she'll come on and say she DNAs all the dogs and pups...

So glad the author listed the name of the sick pup...that may be critical info for a later buyer.

I can't tell you how many times I've read that pet buyers think that's a plus, they think it's great that all the dogs can play together.

[Yorkiemom1]

[QUOTE=makemepretty;4011083]A lady posted the following on Natalies Facebook page. It's how much she loved her puppies from her but READ what she wrote:
. For those of you who haven't visit Natalie, well let me tell you, all of her dogs, except for the babies, the new moms and the ones in heat, they are free to run around the house;

I think I am understanding that she does NOT let the ones in heat run free around the house with the others. Female dogs are called "bitches" for a reason!!! You get a herd of them running together, and you had better be watching closely because someone WILL cop an attitude, (not "if" but "when"), there will be sassy talk back and forth between a couple of them, and the next thing you know, you have a bar room brawl, and whoever is getting the worse of it, the one that goes down first, THAT poor unfortunate soul will be jumped by all the others and she will be seriously injured or killed. I allow my girls to all play outside, but I can tell you, I know who starts trouble and these girls must be kept separate or they will do much harm...and God forbid if one is about to come into season........might as well set up chairs and sell tickets, because you WILL be having horrendous dog fight......If you DARE to run all these dogs together, you can not take your eyes off them for a second, and you would do well to keep them in small manageable groups that get along. Mine are broken up into groups of 3 and 4.....and Alphas must be with someone that accepts her alpha status and is no challenge or Alpha must be playing alone, with me or my son. I usually work the Alphas in the playground...that expends that pent up anxiety and helps keep them on a more even keel. Dont know if that is right or wrong, but it has served me well. But, I was astonished to hear about breeders that let everyone run together, males, females, in heat or not, then all the babies are supposedly DNA'd.....I always wonder about the male and female that tie, and then before they break apart, each wants to go their own way...someone is going to be injured! If for NO other reason, I have spent toooooo much for my dogs to allow such unnecessary injuries. Like most breeders, I put my pair together, and after they tie, I pick them up and hold them, and we relax, and sit and rock, calmly, making this as much a pleasant experience as possible...I want those little embryos to be happy from the very beginning!!!!!!

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I can't tell you how many times I've read that pet buyers think that's a plus, they think it's great that all the dogs can play together.

I love that dogs can free roam, at times, but I also use kennels for my dogs at home during certain times.
I see it as a balance.
Having a pup mill rescue I saw the negative of "caged life" Scoobets was only 5 months when I got him it still had a life long effect.

Another dog we had had never been kenneled I saw yhe issues firat hand of that too.

To me kenneling is useful for training , safety and creating their own den area.

Although Princess runs to her kennel everytime she's naughty and gives me the I touched base look!


WHOOPS! How did I miss the word except there?