I can see their point, because it's likely because of irresponsible people who's dogs escape from yards that they have several in their care.
I read all about that thing with Ellen and the rescue and actually stood behind the rescue and their rules and taking the dog back from the family.

At least you tried to rescue and you have to be respected for that.

"Not only are you maligning SOME very honest, respectable, responsible breeders, who care every bit as much as YOU do about where our babies go and how they end up, you are making people that WANT TO PURCHASE A PUPPY FROM SUCH A BREEDER, feel they are the lowest, stupidest, most selfish, most uninformed idiots of society for doing so."

Teegy - The above paragraph in quotes from Yorkiemom1, is what I was originally responding to. I had sent a PM to her to let her know that I regreted calling her out on the board and suggested that since she was a reputable breeder, that we should work together towards what I am sure is our common goal. And that was the response that she sent me (publically, not a PM). It was much longer, but that is a good representation of it. I have stated here many, many times that reputable breeders play an integral role in the fight against puppy mills.

and this comment from you?
"You wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for people and their discarding of their pets."

If by a "job" you mean something that occupies my mind 24/7, takes me away from time I should be spending with my family, costs me thousands of dollars each year, never mind "paying" me, and yields very little joy but a lot of sadness??? then yes, it is a job, but one that I would be thrilled to be layed off from due to "lack of available work".

The unfortunate thing is that for all the great and wonderful breeders out there with the take back policy etc etc is there are so many fools out their with pets that truly (don't know why) believe their dogs would be so much more fulfilled if they had a litter.
What they aren't getting is that this can lead to ovarian cancer and breast cancer in the dogs later in life (silly rabbits).
I am glad you do what you do, I'm incredibly grateful to YT for being an immense wealth of knowledge for those of us who want to be educated.
Our unfortunate enemy is the parent who gets their kid a puppy but can't afford a breeders costs or passes the rescues criteria, so they go to a source that meets their needs. Then what happens the kid hates having to take care of the dog they dump it on the street or in a rescue/humane society.
Then there are the ones cross breeding for cuteness, same thing happens.
I can guarantee you too that half the dogs out there are unlicensed, I don't know how many people I know say oh god no I didn't pay that much for the dog I'm not paying an annual fee for them.
I'm sick of the cruelty and wish we could put them all in a big hot volcano and turn them to cinders, but we can't.
So those of us who are responsible dog owners who got our dogs from either a breeder or a rescue tip our hats to those out there who can do something for the ones that survive the cruel life they are born to.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Again, please explain HOW this is so!

So when I bought ZoE, you believe a dog was killed in a shelter? It seems to me that you are making the implication that if I hadn't bought ZoE, then I would have obtained my dog at a shelter??? Which is simply not the case. I, personally, would not go to a shelter to get a dog. For me it is either from a breeder of my choice or not at all. So, if I hadn't bought ZoE, would a dog still be killed at a shelter?

Again, I'll equate it to children. To me, it's like you're saying if I hadn't had two children of my own, there would be two less children in the fostercare system. Which, again, is simply not the case, as I would have chosen to either have my own children, or have none.

Finally, if you're so concerned about dogs being killed in shelters why don't you work on getting kill shelters shut down, or work on legislature that makes people legally responsible for their dogs for life....maybe then they'd think long & hard before getting one.

It's not an implication, it's a fact. Good breeder/bad breeder/backyard breeder - for every dog bred and sold, one is killed in a shelter. You may not like how it sounds, but it's a fact.[/QUOTE]

Well....hog wash! This is like blaming every law abiding citizen for being responsible for crooks being in jail!!!!..............GOOD BREEDER HERE:D:D !! HERE IS A FACT FOR YOU; YOU WONT EVER FIND A ROSEHILL BABY IN A RESCUE SHELTER! So, sorry, I refuse to accept ANY responsibility for ANY of those poor babies in rescue....The people that need to be made to feel horrible and guilty, are the irresponsible owners that choose to kick their dogs to the curb. FACT IS, IF WE COULD JUST EUTHANIZE ALL THE IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS, THAT WOULD SOLVE EVERYBODYS PROBLEM....there would be only responsible owners, taking care of their babies until they died, there would be no rescued dogs because there would be no abandoned dogs, responsible owners would not buy from pet stores because they know better, which would put puppy mills out of business.......AND THE LAST PERSON STANDING IS THE RESPONSIBLE BREEDER....supporting the responsible owner/BUYER!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!!

Uh mad you're doing more harm than good. Actually good responsibke vreeders help maintain the populatiin in control. They require spay neuter contracta otherwise we'd all be taking in rescues and without negative cobsequence bad breeders byb would only use readily avalible homes as another excuse.

Ya know I used to be a member if PETA until they alientated me by wanting to ban all natural systainable products for petrolium based animal friendly eviromentally devastating ones...so I bought a T-shirt that says I eat vegans and now send my PETA membership money to the SPCA

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: OMG!!!! A CONVERT!!! I LOVE YOU!!!! GOD BLESS YOU!!! IF ONLY EVERYONE COULD SEE THE LIGHT THAT PETA IS ACTUALLY SHINING!!!! WONDERFUL MOVE, concretegurl!!! and thank you for pointing out the spay/neuter in our contracts....

Thanks. It wasn't an east choice at first until the whole animal friendly went to illigical extreme choices. I support most of PETAs boycotts etc but some of it again has gone extreme illogical and contradictiry to my other beleifs.
love you too lol

Well....hog wash! This is like blaming every law abiding citizen for being responsible for crooks being in jail!!!!..............GOOD BREEDER HERE:D:D !! HERE IS A FACT FOR YOU; YOU WONT EVER FIND A ROSEHILL BABY IN A RESCUE SHELTER! So, sorry, I refuse to accept ANY responsibility for ANY of those poor babies in rescue....The people that need to be made to feel horrible and guilty, are the irresponsible owners that choose to kick their dogs to the curb. FACT IS, IF WE COULD JUST EUTHANIZE ALL THE IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS, THAT WOULD SOLVE EVERYBODYS PROBLEM....there would be only responsible owners, taking care of their babies until they died, there would be no rescued dogs because there would be no abandoned dogs, responsible owners would not buy from pet stores because they know better, which would put puppy mills out of business.......AND THE LAST PERSON STANDING IS THE RESPONSIBLE BREEDER....supporting the responsible owner/BUYER!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

First off, for the record, I would never have anything to do with PETA or any organization like it. You may consider me a zealot, but I'm really not.

As far as comparing dogs to children; there are organizations/individuals out there who do encourage adopting rather than giving birth - I am not one of them. I have chosen to try and make a difference in the life of dogs, and that is what I focus on.

Lastly, regarding my statement. It is not hogwash, it is a fact. the numbers are actually even higher. No where did I say that Breeders (of any kind, good or bad) are soley RESPONSIBLE for dogs being killed in shelters, but it does not change the fact that it happens, and since the dogs cannot be blamed, and they cannot help themselves, it is us humans who must help them. Yes, there are many ways to go about it, changing legislation (I do not get involved with that), educating the public on the importance of spaying/neutering (which I am very involved in), educating the public that adoption is a very good, suitable alternative to purchasing a dog, and lastly, if they are absolutely determined to purchase a purebred, then to find a reputable breeder (both of which I also actively encourage).

Thinking this over, I would rephrase my post to say "for every dog bred and sold, at least one dog dies in a shelter - WHY would you want to purchase rather than adopt?" If you have an answer to that question that you feel comfortable with, then I'd say, go ahead and buy - just be sure it is from a reputable breeder. Note, that it does not say that because a dog is bred and sold, a dog dies in a shelter - there is a huge difference in meaning. Rather than trying to place blame, or deflect blame, why not try and find ways to make a change??

- WHY would you want to purchase rather than adopt?" If you have an answer to that question that you feel comfortable with, then I'd say, go ahead and buy - just be sure it is from a reputable breeder.
:thumbup:
Tha above is great advice....hmmmm wonder what's up with the topic of this thread anyways?

Let me tell you this. As someone who helps with a rescue group, not every one is a good fit for a Rescue Dog, based on one of many factors. I would never, ever put anyone down for purchasing from a Reputable Breeder.
I myself have purchased (3 Yorkies and I also have adopted 9 Yorkies, 4 of those being from Puppymill Rescue).
The way you keep preaching and shoving this issue down people's throat is not doing any good at all.

:thumbup:

I want to know my dog's lineage. I want to know the temperament & health of the parents. I want a specific look in a dog. I want the support/knowledge/expertise of the breeder on-hand whenever I need her throughout the years. I want the security of knowing that if for any reason I can not take care of my dog (ie: if I were to get a terminal disease), she has a great place to go back to where I know she will be loved & cared for.

I got my first yorkie when my kids were 3 & 5. The majority of rescues will not place yorkies with small children. Many rescues will also not place if you don't own a home, if your yard isn't fenced, if you aren't over a certain age, if you are in the military, and a variety of other reasons.

I was so upset once I found the perfect dog her name was Emma.

I passed every qualification for the adopt was so excited and when I was arranging the in person adoption interview the adoption cordonator said she'd do the home inspection on the following weekend, I said I didn't realize she needed to do that was she really going to travel the 7.5 hours?
I get it now but it was a detourant to rescuing then.

Once again I get you Kazzy

In my 14 years here not a single pure Yorkie has come through the pound or humane society and we have no rescues here that are breed specific other than the pit bull rescue

Well....hog wash! This is like blaming every law abiding citizen for being responsible for crooks being in jail!!!!..............GOOD BREEDER HERE:D:D !! HERE IS A FACT FOR YOU; YOU WONT EVER FIND A ROSEHILL BABY IN A RESCUE SHELTER! So, sorry, I refuse to accept ANY responsibility for ANY of those poor babies in rescue....The people that need to be made to feel horrible and guilty, are the irresponsible owners that choose to kick their dogs to the curb. FACT IS, IF WE COULD JUST EUTHANIZE ALL THE IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS, THAT WOULD SOLVE EVERYBODYS PROBLEM....there would be only responsible owners, taking care of their babies until they died, there would be no rescued dogs because there would be no abandoned dogs, responsible owners would not buy from pet stores because they know better, which would put puppy mills out of business.......AND THE LAST PERSON STANDING IS THE RESPONSIBLE BREEDER....supporting the responsible owner/BUYER!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

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and I 100% agree with Kazzy for the reasons you buy from a reputable breeder. I don't think it serves anyone well by having a closed minded attitude.

Those of you who work in rescue, do you keep in touch with all the people who adopt and follow the life of the dog and make certain the dog isn't discarded and do they surrender the dog if they are unable to take care of it.
Does everyone who rescues follow your rules to the letter.
I agree Mad that I don't think you are putting forth a very good portrayal of the attitude of rescue.
I work with someone who regularly takes in rescues and fosters and although she would never buy a dog herself she was very accepting of my reasons for purchasing a dog and I would never take away from the good work those who do volunteer and work at rescues do.
If I had the time and the money and my boys were accepting of it I'd take in fosters or a rescue, but that isn't the case.
I actually know someone who rescued a dog and after a few weeks let it offleash and it got hit by a car and died.
She knew the rescue would never give her another dog (I personally think she is not suited for caring for an animal) so she had her friend go adopt another dog for her the day after her dog died and 3 years later she still has him.

Why purchase over adopt?? Because this is the US and we are lucky have freedom of choice, if I am going to make a 12-16 year emotional and financial commitment to a living breathing being, it is MY choice where I get it from and what type of dog I get. I am sure all of us are well aware that one of the reasons dogs wind up in shelters is because people purchase the wrong type of dog for their lifestyle or family. So what some might see as being fussy wanting a certain breed, others might see as being smart for picking the right type of breed for your lifestyle, people that do that rarely surrender dogs. Mad I know you are passionate and fighting a good cause but IMHO if you are here thinking you will change our minds you are wasting your time.
Do you really think that on a website dedicated to yorkies that you are going to find people that think exactly like you or that you will be able to convert us. I highly doubt it, I am not saying you can't be a member here but why would you want to, wouldn't the time you spend typing here be better spent writing letters to congress, newspapers and TV stations trying to further your cause instead of your opinion. In fact if you would like help with your cause and identified some puppy mills you were working on, or ways you could use help, people on this board and even this thread might join you in your efforts. If I may make a suggestion why not drop the subject of telling us we should adopt instead of purchase LOL you will not change or minds anyway, and tell us more about the group you are involved in. I for one would like to know more about what your work is about, and find out if you know of puppy mills in MI that you could use help with getting shut down.

Teegy, LOL your post 167 just confused the heck out of me :confused: at first I thought Yorkiemom1 was saying for every dog bred and sold one dog is killed, and that you were then replying to her. I was like WHAT Yorkiemom changed her mind and started agreeing with Mad, What IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!, then I realized the typing underneath the quote was hers and you just added the thumbs up, Whew that was confusing for a few moments:D

sorry for the confusion but as I read your last comments it's exactly what was going through my mind.
I am thinking to myself wow this person is spending an awful lot of time on here when they have dogs to rescue and mills to close hahahaha.

Yes indeed why not provide us with the information so that we can further aid in spreading the word about bybs and puppymills in neighbourhoods you know of.
I went on FB and spread the word about the evil TB after getting information from some solid sources and word was spread quite rapidly to the point she removed her public access to people of Yorkie associations who now know about her.

That's all it takes, so share share share.

Donna how is that meet up of yours coming along. You know I'm really not a big fan of other womens company because I often find them bitchy and catty (isn't that a funny coin of phrase) but my meetup chicks are an awesome bunch of women and it's probably because we have these fantastic little dogs that keep us occupied and happy enough not to get involved or upset by things that make them bitchy and catty.

it is just in the very early stage, one of the other problems with the old group was the people were spread out pretty far from one another. We are trying to do it more local and so we need to meet new people, and even here on YT there are not that many people that I know of that are from near were Kazzy and I live. So our plan is to make up flyers and in our spare time drop them off at groomers, pet stores, and vets. And LOL I want to get business cards made so when I see someone with a small dog like I did at the post office yesterday I have something to give them so they know how to get in touch with us. LOL anyone on here know how to create a cute logo. I want a Logo for the group:D

Charlene started a facebook page and posted on meetup.com, although meetup costs money.
she got cards printed for cheap on amazon.com I believe.
We also have an event planned at one of the local indoor dog facilities and she has gathered some sponsors by cold calling some of the treat, poobag and food companies that we all use.
Do you know anyone who is a decent artist that can rough up some sketches for you.

We all exchanged emails at the first meetup up and connected on FB so that we can meet up with those closest to us more regularly.
The last few weekends some of us went to the beach or just to a big park to chill and the dogs played. My social activity has certainly increased. My breeder even has a link to our group on her website and puts her Toronto customers in touch with me whenever she has one.

I don't know any artists, and I can do all those other things, just finished with a fund raiser last night that I organized for our township's youth assistance, I mentor a kid, have a job, and a large yard, and try to excersise, so I have a lot of good intentions, just not LOL as much time, and I really notice that YT is consuming to much of the little time i have left which is dumb, but like cigs(which I don't smoke) it's addictive. I will pace myself on the meetup endeavor, but I LOVE hearing your suggestions, in fact if it's OK, can you send me a link to your meetup FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/127493957326794/

it doesn't appear the coco has been removed yet though I'll need to fix that

You are absolutely, 100% correct. I did not come on this board for this reason. I came here because someone wrote me and asked for assistance. Once here, I became involved in a debate (thief vs. not a thief) that really has nothing to with what I am trying to accomplish and spun off from there. So, I apologize for that. While my personal opinion will never change, I do respect all of your decisions as well. I am no different than you - I purchased my Yorkie from a pet store, and my chihuahua from a backyard breeder. I just happened to have a life changing event that placed me where I am today in the world of puppy mills, and there is no going back for me. Maybe some of you will be in this same position later in your life - maybe not. But either way, I will ask this; the next time you are wanting to add a new dog to your family, consider adopting/rescuing, or purchase only from a proven, well known, reputable breeder.
Lastly, for those that would like to know more about puppy mills and the pet shop/internet/backyard breeder connection, visit my website.
www.madpuppymills.org
Have a Wonderful Day!

That is a very nice post and I agree with you

I am going to share it on my FB and what exactly is a USDA approved commercial breeding facility, doesn't that just mean a puppy mill.
They need to close those mothers down, that poor poodle