That was a pretty strong accusation to make, and I've spent the last 30 minutes or so looking through each one of her posts and have not found her to say that. Are you friends with her outside of this message board and this is something she told you in private? did you make it up? Or did I just miss the post (which is a possibility, but I don't think so).

This has so turned into the victim being victimized. I would love to see any one of you hand over your baby to a known animal abuser - yes, I said abuser because that is what she is. Seriously people, open your eyes. Illegal in the eyes of the law?? maybe. But this woman (ChinaLee) has/will probably end up paying $1,000's for this puppy in medical expenses alone, and sometimes you just need to have a backbone and stand up for what you believe in, which she is doing. You disagree? you have every right. but you have lowered yourself to the level of the puppy miller with your nasty remarks in my opinion.

www.madpuppymills.org
Adopt - Don't Shop. Ever.

And "Loretta" has proven multiple times that you have a better shot of winning the lottery than you EVER do of getting a cent back from her because of medical expenses for one of her sick dogs. She RELIES on the fact that her customers have fallen in love with their dogs and will not "RETURN" them like a rotten head of lettuce from the grocery store for a refund. More people need to stand up to breeders/millers like this - there is only one place you can hit them that hurts - and that is their pocketbook.

madpuppymills.org
Your Petshop puppy's mother is dying in a puppy mill.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/check-stop-payments.html
Heres a link for informational purposes.

Today I had to meet with my lawyer regarding some business matters,
I asked him about this today and he immediately said "this is the same thing I told you to do when you got your dog", (but I was afraid to!). In my case I ended up basically getting the cost of my dog back as they had to pay for her surgery, after I paid for it and a million other things...) I ended up spending 20x that amount ytd.

He said anyone at anytime can stop payment if it is in "good faith."

Lawyer said that most times these types of people aren't running totally legitimte business' to begin with (not saying Loretta isn't). Many will NOT persue monies because of exposure and fears of the IRS (interesting).

Said that in this case Loretta can take her to small claims and vice versa court and the Judge the breeder will probably (depending) on contract and puppy lemon laws of their state, end up owing ChinaLee money.

My Lawyer said that the best thing to do is to try to work it out amongst themselves, get past this and come up with a solution together. If not, he suggested that ChinaLees lawyer should contact Loretta to work out an agreement, that would be the right thing to do.

He said that either party could take the other to small claims court over this, hes willing to bet neither one does.

Am not judging here, I totally despise these types of breeders and I totally hated paying them...I understand your viewpoint and I understand others viewpoints as well, I personally did not cancel check even though I could have, but I was relentless getting my money back as per the contract...however; I just couldn't keep persuing as I could have, and after I got the amount that i payed for My Miss Mini, I walked away from the whole situation....I love my dog but my energy was spent on her.

I know that in the first couple weeks the cost to keep my Miss Mini alive was staggering and I am grateful that I was able to pay the costs and not return my pup...I'm not sure if Chinalee is as fortunate as I am to be able to afford this...what I do know is there is no way in the world I would have given my baby back...NONE so in that respect I can sympathize with ChinaLee.

The thing about this situation is that all we have is writtin text and not the whole story and we just don't and can't know all the details.

Either way, I'm glad this pup is loved and being taken care of.

Dogs puppies are considered property by the law.
Sad but true property can be reposessed if not paid in full.
I hope all buyers follow thelaw to the letter and further pursue litigation themselves.
Please ensure you buyers follow the law ro ensure YOUR dogs can't be repossessed by this "breeder".

No I did Not make it up she posted it on another thread

It's not like I don't have a million other things I should be doing, but according to her profile, she has posted 33 times, and I have read them all, and not once did she state she had canceled checks in the past.

Seeing as how you claim to have a higher standard of morals than others on this board, I'd suggest that if you can't recall if or where she ever made a comment like that, you owe her an apology.

I have no issue separating legalities from moralities...if I was involved in this same exact situaltion, I can proimise you, I would definately keep this baby...but I WOULD PAY FOR IT....I BELIEVE I HAVE A LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR ANYTHING I RECEIVE. IF I DECIDED TO KEEP THIS BABY, I WOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO QUALMS ABOUT PAYING FOR IT. I have never expected to get anything without paying for it...if I walk into a junkyard and I pick out a car, and then I get the car home and the transmission hits the ground, I would remember NO ONE TWISTED MY ARM TO GO TO THAT JUNK YARD AND BUY THAT CAR....since I chose to go there, and I walked out with that item, I BELIEVE I HAVE A MORAL AS WELL AS A LEGAL OBLIGATION/RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR IT. So I would pay for my choice, accept responsibility for my choice, and then if I REALLY wanted to have an effect on this business for selling junk, (rather than use this as an excuse to get free junk) I would pursue the owner in court...if I want to get the car for free, I would just holler about what a crook they were selling junk cars at a junk yard, and how I was not going to pay for my selection of junk from the junk yard., because it was nothing but a piece of junk!! I expect to pay for ANYTHING I take possession of. If I go to a junk yard and buy junk, I will pay for it. If I go to Home Depot and buy something new, and it is delivered and is not what it was advertised to be, I RETURN IT....OR, I KEEP IT AND B**CH ABOUT HOW I GOT TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.....BUT I DO NOT KEEP IT, AND NOT PAY FOR IT BECAUSE I WANT TO "TEACH THEM A LESSON"! I will "teach them a lesson" in a court of law. But that is just me and my personal sense of ethical behavior and sense of integritiy.

Greeders represent themselves as being legitimate. They rely on an uninformed public in order to continue their methods of operation. People don't purchase puppies from these people because they think they are getting a discount or "junkyard" puppy. They just don't know any better. Puppy mills advertise themselves as being beautiful "puppy farms" in the country where the dogs live lives of ease. While many here know what a puppy mill really is the majority of people have know idea what one really is. I might add that from what I have read many people on YT started out with Yorkies from puppy mills, pet stores or back yard breeders.

It is a common practice to stop payment on a check when one suspects they have been ripped off. This was an illegal transaction to begin with. When the buyer found out what she was involved in she stopped payment on her check. In any other thread people are told giving money to a puppy mill only helps them to continue in business and yet in this case this person deserves the $600.00 to help her stay in business? The woman stays in business because of her ability to swindle people and that is exactly what she was doing to this buyer.If this broker pays the additional vet costs then the buyer needs to be prepared to pay for the puppy. Otherwise the breeder deserves not another cent. While the buyer made the mistake of going to a dishonest breeder/broker she does not deserve the additional expenses that she encountered and would never be recouped from the breeder.

This situation is going to play out one way or another. The buyer made a mistake in judgment but does not deserve the analogy and prejudice that is being shown here.

update
 

Thank you for everyone's continued support. Zooey is still suffering with fungus that has spread to other parts of her body. Going back to vet for more test and hopefully new meds. Were finding new bald spots on her and still losing hair.

To those of you who can care less, you've made your point! Anyone who has been a victim of this broker/breeder, please report on madpuppymill.org. for everyone's information, I've gone through all the proper channels with the authorities. Ive take their advice, and keeping my puppy. Anyone has the right to cancel a check and the right to save a puppy from a puppy mill.

I am paying for this puppy one way or another! Getting her healthy is my main objective at this point. And giving her a loving home. I refuse for her to go back to a puppy mill. So this is where I stand!

Okay but no judge is going to award her any monies toward vet bills when she didnt even pay the purchase price of the dog. Who knows what all more serious health problems this dog may have. Thats why theres a right way to go about it and a wrong way

Listen, do me a favour and get the pup on a raw diet. Start with just roasted or boiled chicken then go raw. It will help with the fungus and get a probiotic give a capsule a day.
It's not great loading a wee pup with meds as they are still developing an immune system.
A raw diet with provide them with good nutrition and the enzymes that wee body needs to strengthen the immune system.

Unfortunately, the law protects tbe breeder/broker more. You can recoup vet expenses, but ONLY in the amount of the purchase price of the puppy. So if you buy a $1,000 puppy, and spend $3,000 in vet bills, by law you'd only be entitled to $1,000. At least that's the Puppy Lemon Law here in Florida, I don't know about other states. I paid $1,100 for Luna and was able to get our $700+ ER Vet bill reimbursed.

Either way, the OP really should pay for the puppy and then follow proper procedure to recoup her money. Otherwise this will just be hanging over her head.

I'll give it a try. Thanks!

At the end of the day, all I can say is Thank you for taking care of this pup...the pup is what counts here, many of us really do understand, right or wrong....

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

QUOTE=Yorkiemom1;3945261]Here is another lead balloon: For the people out there that, for whatever reason choose to BUY their baby from a breeder, you not only have to do YOUR homework on the breeder, you MUST accept responsibility for keeping your precious little baby from ending up like the attachments on the above site. Just one example: DO NOT get a puppy if you know you will be starting a family in 3-5 years and you do not want the dog in the house with the new baby. You have made a committment to this puppy for the life of the puppy, which could be from 10 - 15 years or more! Puppies are surrendered to rescues by people that have made the wrong decision to get a puppy in the first place...they keep the baby until they tire of it, or have other life changes, and they kick it to the curb. THAT IS NOT ANY BREEDERS FAULT. Most reputable breeders, like rescues, mandate the baby goes back to them...owners are embarrassed to follow through with that mandate, so they surrender the baby to a pound or just turn it out.....we have no legal control over what people do with their dogs after they get them...all we can do is try to closely screen buyers, have them sign contracts that include returning the dog to the breeder if ever necessary, microchip the dog and list US as alternate contacts, and hope the buyer lives up to our expectations and their word. Dogs are in rescues because of irresponsible buyers, not ALWAYS irresponsible breeders! "ADOPT...DONT SHOP"???.... BUYERS MUST ACCEPT ACCOUNTABLITY FOR THEIR DECISION TO GET A PUPPY REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY GET IT. BREEDERS CAN NOT BE BLAMED FOR ALL THE DOGS IN RESCUES.[/QUOTE]

For the life of me, I could not figure out why you have such animosity towards the OP and this whole situation, going so far as to accuse her of being a thief. I get it now. You are a breeder and are just defending your "career choice". One quick look at your past posts, and the first sentence that jumped out off the page was where you referred to your "breeding stock". Oh yea, I definitely get it now, and therefore will be bowing gracefully out of this conversation. The only reason I became involved in it was because Chinalee had emailed me with her story and asked for suggestions/help. Chinalee/Karen - good luck to you and your pup. I have forwarded your information to organizations who are very successful with this type of situation. I encourage you to file a report with petshoppuppiies.org. "Loretta" and her unlicensed/illegal breeders are already on their radar and I know that they would welcome any information you can give them. You made a decision that others may not agree with, but honestly, it's none of their business, and please know that most compassionate people would be behind you 100%. Those that are not - well, it's obvious now that they have their own agenda.

Yorkimom1 - I won't argue with you about the responsibilities of buyers versus breeders. But will just say that for every puppy born to one of your "breeding stock", a perfectly healthy and loving dog is put to death. You can blame whoever you want, but the only ones who are not to blame are the dogs, and they can't fix this - we humans have to do that. Until you face the truth and realize that we CAN fix this, nothing I can say or do will mean anything to you. I hope that one day you will come to this realization on your own and decide to try and help make a difference. And, for the record, I had posted in a previous message that while I 100% disagree with breeding dogs for profit, I accept that it is a necessary evil and that the very few reputable breeders out there play an important role in helping us put an end to puppy mills by keeping potential buyers out of pet shops and off the internet.
My final suggestion - stop blaming and start making a difference. And oh yea, Adopt. Don't Shop. Ever.
www.madpuppymills.org

What she said!!:thumbup::thumbup:

For the life of me, I could not figure out why you have such animosity towards the OP and this whole situation, going so far as to accuse her of being a thief. I get it now. You are a breeder and are just defending your "career choice". One quick look at your past posts, and the first sentence that jumped out off the page was where you referred to your "breeding stock". Oh yea, I definitely get it now, and therefore will be bowing gracefully out of this conversation. The only reason I became involved in it was because Chinalee had emailed me with her story and asked for suggestions/help. Chinalee/Karen - good luck to you and your pup. I have forwarded your information to organizations who are very successful with this type of situation. I encourage you to file a report with petshoppuppiies.org. "Loretta" and her unlicensed/illegal breeders are already on their radar and I know that they would welcome any information you can give them. You made a decision that others may not agree with, but honestly, it's none of their business, and please know that most compassionate people would be behind you 100%. Those that are not - well, it's obvious now that they have their own agenda.

Yorkimom1 - I won't argue with you about the responsibilities of buyers versus breeders. But will just say that for every puppy born to one of your "breeding stock", a perfectly healthy and loving dog is put to death. You can blame whoever you want, but the only ones who are not to blame are the dogs, and they can't fix this - we humans have to do that. Until you face the truth and realize that we CAN fix this, nothing I can say or do will mean anything to you. I hope that one day you will come to this realization on your own and decide to try and help make a difference. And, for the record, I had posted in a previous message that while I 100% disagree with breeding dogs for profit, I accept that it is a necessary evil and that the very few reputable breeders out there play an important role in helping us put an end to puppy mills by keeping potential buyers out of pet shops and off the internet.
My final suggestion - stop blaming and start making a difference. And oh yea, Adopt. Don't Shop. Ever.
www.madpuppymills.org[/QUOTE]


You are awesome!

Please explain HOW this is so???

It seems to be the attitude of some zealots that I as a potential dog owner/future puppy buyer, am somehow obligated to take some irresponsible idiot's castoff rather than choosing to get the puppy I want from the breeder I want. I have no such obligation!

Those that choose to rescue & rehome, make that choice for themselves. But wreckless owners that fail in their life-time commitment to their animals shouldn't set the rules for those of us that want to select our puppies from certain "breeding stock" because said breeding stock as features, characters & temperament that we desire.

Where do you get off with the attitude that responsible breeders shouldn't breed because irresponsible people dispose of their animals and don't care & provide for them for their entire life? To me...that's whacked!!!

You don't have to say anymore on this subject, really. I wouldn't want ANY dog being raised in a house with someone who believes that a dog should die because a human is irresponsible.
This is quite possibly the most selfish, self-serving, and sad post that I have read in a long time.

and I really am curious about your comment "wanting dogs from breeding stock for certain features and characters". You must show dogs?

if i paid half the money for a pup and it fell ill and cost me a lot in the vets never mind not getting the papers etc i wud cancell it to,,,,, and finding out she is a greeder is the icing on the cake,,,,,, omg sometime biding by the law doesnt work,,, expose this greeder for wat she is, go to ur local papers. fight for the little soul,,,,, good luck ,, i wud love to curse my head off right now:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=madpuppymills;3946892]

I have a rescue I got from the pound.
He barely passed the adoptability requirements I knew the adoption cordonator from an antichin farm rescue group.
I beleive in rescue whole heartidly to this day. I do NOT regret adopting scoobers, hes the best NOW after hundreds on trainers behaviorist and meds plus months years of learning on the cuff about so much.
Scoobers was dumped by a pup mill, while psychically healthy he is still very psychologically damaged...he was only 5 months when we got him.

When we decided to adopt again we bought a yorkie from a private greeder. My mistake but again no regrets we love Elvis, with his arthritus, epilepsy and neurological and psycological damage.

If adopting again I'd go to a responsible breeder for a puppy.

Nothing wrong with that, pet stores, pup mills BYBs and greeders are the problem in conjunction with irrisponsible pet owners.

Okay I lie, I think rescue is just for us or we'd take a breeders rehomed. I'm now pewpared and aware of the needs of rescues.

However I'd never fault anyone for buying from a responsible breeder...fault the irrisponsible breeders and pet owners please.

My breeder has also taken several rescues in and successfully rehomed them with customers she knows they would be very well cared for

This whole argument about breeding dogs for profit is getting on my nads. Where do you think your dog came from the dog stork?
I support good breeders such as yorkie mom who take care to ensure the pups are physically and mentally sound giving us the pet owner a peace of mind and a great support system for information through the life of our dogs. I also have a safe place where I know my dogs will be happy and well care for should an emergency arise or I chose to travel without them.
I think it is a wonderful thing to know that if I couldn't take care of my dogs any longer that my breeder would take them back and find appropriate homes for them.
Now I applaud those of you who gothe rescue route. I personally don't have free flowing cash allowing me to fork out thousands for meds and surgeries and doggy psychiatrists. An good for you for taking the dumped unwanted dis guarded pets and puppy mill victims. But I don't think that gives you the right to shun a responsible caring breeder.
It like religion and politics. We all have our opinions and we can chose to disagree.
I love and respect my breeder

I don't agree with you Kazzy is just saying you are being a bit preachy and suggesting that people such as myself don't have the right to choose a quality breeder. I find this move as responsible as rescue, I did two years of research before choosing my breeder.
I don't think Kazzy mentioned anything about a dog should die because I want a quality pup.
That is highly judgemental and rather insulting. You should go and moan at the irresponsible human that dumped your rescue dog, not the person providing a loving happy home to their dog.
You don't know what kind of support we give animal shelters and rescues behind the scenes or our involvement in getting city/provinical or federal legislature changed toward the better for animals in general.
good for you for having a code of ethics you stand by, no need to get so harsh.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Kazzy, I don't think you mean much of this the way it *sounds*. Please reconsider what you have posted here. Much of what you have posted is a slap in the face to the people on YT who work tirelessly everyday to help these pups, they don't view them this way, nor do many of us view them this way. Those pups are victims of those awful breeders and owners, they should be recognized as such and not blamed for being so. I don't feel that the pups deserve the sword your wielding and I would hope that you, in some shape, way or form support these animals and the folks who rescue selflessly each day...I'm sorry but this just doesn't sit well with me, and I needed to be heard.

Adopting a rescue is a decision that should be taken seriously and is commendable for those who do. Adopting a rescue is not for everybody and that is why so many good people are not selected to adopt. Placing one of these pups must be done carefully and essential criteria is necessary, for obvious reasons.

Those who are not interested in adopting a rescue should not be criticized for admitting that they can't/don't want to, that is exactly what a rescue doesn't want in an owner.

Getting a puppy from a responsible, ethical good breeder is also commendable, I wish I had....all I can do now is educate myself and advocate for the pups...and take care of both of my special needs girls!