WARNING!! Bad Breeder: Toni Ledbetter - Page 5 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

YorkieRose · 04-22-2010, 07:06 PM

No breeder is perfect, all are subject to problems...problems with buyers, adult dogs and puppies.
What the breeder does to correct the problem is my test of an ethical, reputable breeder.
Have I ever had problems in 36 yr..of course, but I have done all I can to make things right..you can not BUY a good name and it is easy to ruin one.
I wish Ms Ledbetter the best with her dogs.

BamaFan121s · 04-22-2010, 08:18 PM

So let me get this strait...the breeder won the suit because she had it included in her sales agreement that she did not offer a health guarantee against a pup so young and was therefor released of any responsibility? Why on Earth should she be congratulated for that!? Sounds like she won the case because she made sure to shield herself from being responsible for health issues her pups may develop, NOT because of good breeding ethics.

IMO, not offering a health agreement on her dogs and releasing "a pup so young" only reinforces the claims that have been made about her.

BamaFan121s · 04-22-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryeverett1

Wow. That's extremely interesting! I'm glad you were able to come on and give the judge's final ruling. Another case of needing all the facts before someone is so harshly judged!

LOL...hey, OJ was found innocent too, remember? And the verdict is still out on him.

Ruling in someone's favor doesn't ensure they are innocent, it just means there wasn't enough evidence to rule against them.

Sorry, but IMO, this doesn't "prove" anything as far as whether or not this breeder is ethical.

Breeze · 04-22-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

LOL...hey, OJ was found innocent too, remember? And the verdict is still out on him.

Ruling in someone's favor doesn't ensure they are innocent, it just means there wasn't enough evidence to rule against them.

Sorry, but IMO, this doesn't "prove" anything as far as whether or not this breeder is ethical.

livingdustmops · 04-22-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

LOL...hey, OJ was found innocent too, remember? And the verdict is still out on him.

Ruling in someone's favor doesn't ensure they are innocent, it just means there wasn't enough evidence to rule against them.

Sorry, but IMO, this doesn't "prove" anything as far as whether or not this breeder is ethical.

Another case...I don't understand that statement...but you are right Bama..we all know of cases where someone is guilty as hell and walked away because of how something is written. The law is what the law is..it might not even be fair and we know justice can be blind.

Love A Yorkie · 04-22-2010, 10:12 PM

I do not know this breeder but I do not think any Yorkie should be kept outside in a Kennel. Sounds like a breeder that is in it for the money and not for the Love of a Yorkie. It is so important for the Yorkie to have contact with people as it is for any dog/puppy. There are a lot of good breeders out there as well as some bad breeders and it seems the bad breeders give the good ones a bad name. I am a small home breeder and couldn't think of putting any of my furbabies outside in a Kennel. They ALL sleep with me and before I breed any male I take him into the vet and have his sperm looked at to make sure everything is good; if I run across a stud with any bad sperm they are fixed and kept as my pet. My main goal is to try very hard to put only quality puppies out on the market. I have what I thought was a breeder friend that Lives in Orlando, FL that bred her female that has stadge 4 patella problems and a bad overbit. I told her to sell the puppies as pet only as to not pass the problem on but did she NO she sold a Parti Yorkie to a breeder in Cocca Beach, FL and never even told her the defect in the dam. How BAD now that is a bad breeder. Her name is Phyllis with AList Yorkies out of Orlando. Just make sure when looking for a precious baby the buyer needs to do the research and even talk to the breeders vet, other buyers from the breeder. I just do not understand breeders like this I guess it is the all mighty dollar talking. Sad Sad Sad. Love A Yorkie!!!!!

magicgenie · 04-23-2010, 10:53 AM

And wish to express, once again, that it's really quite sickening to come on this board and see so many people with no experience whatsoever with the breeder participating in a bashing frenzy. You not only don't know the breeder, but many of the comments show you don't know anything about breeding.

Cerise · 04-23-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicgenie

And wish to express, once again, that it's really quite sickening to come on this board and see so many people with no experience whatsoever with the breeder participating in a bashing frenzy. You not only don't know the breeder, but many of the comments show you don't know anything about breeding.

And your comment shows you know nothing about legal cases, and why the results of this one are what they are. People don't come on here just to bash breeders. They come on here to tell the experiences that they have with a breeder...GOOD or BAD. Some of us know a lot about breeding though we wisely choose not to breed. We can see through shameful breeding practices and we learn on here who condones them.

luvdorkyyorkies · 04-23-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

No breeder is perfect, all are subject to problems...problems with buyers, adult dogs and puppies.
What the breeder does to correct the problem is my test of an ethical, reputable breeder.
Have I ever had problems in 36 yr..of course, but I have done all I can to make things right..you can not BUY a good name and it is easy to ruin one.
I wish Ms Ledbetter the best with her dogs.

I am using yorkie roses quote because she is to be admired. SHe may not agree with you or I, but she will never judge you without knowing facts. Never makes assumptions. SHe is quite an inspiration and I have always admired her in all regards. SHe uses diplomacy.
I recently went thru a bad time of my own for advertising one of my yorkies on here without being spay and for owning a kennel. I ended up getting harassing phonecalls at my home and was tagged all over the place for being a puppymill, bad breeder etc.
If this breeder is being judged unfairly I so feel for her. I know how it feels. THere are threads everywhere about her.

jencar98 · 04-23-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdorkyyorkies

I am using yorkie roses quote because she is to be admired. SHe may not agree with you or I, but she will never judge you without knowing facts. Never makes assumptions. SHe is quite an inspiration and I have always admired her in all regards. SHe uses diplomacy.
I recently went thru a bad time of my own for advertising one of my yorkies on here without being spay and for owning a kennel. I ended up getting harassing phonecalls at my home and was tagged all over the place for being a puppymill, bad breeder etc.
If this breeder is being judged unfairly I so feel for her. I know how it feels. THere are threads everywhere about her.

What happened to you, you brought on yourself, apparently you weren't following Pat's (Yorkierose) advice.

Quote Yorkierose:
What the breeder does to correct the problem is my test of an ethical, reputable breeder.

ndyorkiemom · 04-23-2010, 02:34 PM

I don't post here much because of threads like this and several others but, I would like to say a few words now.
The fighting that goes on here is unbelievable to me, yes we are here to help people learn and find healthy happy well adjusted Yorkies but does it have to be so hateful at times? Its fine to give your opinion on topics but surely they can be given without trying to cut the throats of others. How can you attack someone you have never meant or had any dealings with personally? All too many times peopel forget that there are two sides to every story and that ONLY the people involve truely know the answers to.
I don't believe that any puppy should leave for their new home until they are a minimum of 12 weeks old PERIOD! I don't care who the new owner is or who the breeder is, that is just bad practice as well as asking for trouble.
While I don't believe the contract should have been totally voided I do believe it should have been revised so that the breeder wasn't held responsible for the new owners misgivings should any arise.
I will be the first to say that I know Toni personally and while we don't speak hardly at all anymore the person I knew seemed to truely care about her dogs.
I have never bought a Yorkie from Toni so I can't comment on her dogs or on her contract but, Toni as a person I never had a problem with.
I to keep all of my Yorkies in my home, they sleep with us, watch tv with us and eat veggie treats with us as well. No I can't imagine putting them in any other place away from me. That being said I can't and won't condem someone else for doing so as long as the area is keep clean and the dogs aren't being ignored as far as human companionship goes.
Like several others have stated on this thread, the case has been settled legally now, I would think that these threads could be put to rest and people could get back to helpping people again. All of this is just my opinion so please to turn on me as well. I just think life is too short to have so much hate and discontent floating around.

livingdustmops · 04-23-2010, 02:50 PM

Interesting on why you think people are here at YT. I have an entirely different reason and it is not to buy or sell dogs.

I do want all of this to end but until both sides see what the judge has to say it needs to stay open.

I might add Toni isn't the person posting what the judge has to say because she got kicked off of YT. She didn't play by the rules and in some ways lost her rights but now she has more people posting for her and I do understand why but what I don't understand is why the other person hasn't seen the ruling from the judge and all of Toni's friends want it closed. Maybe what is being said is the correct thing, I just believe we should see both sides.

BamaFan121s · 04-23-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndyorkiemom

How can you attack someone you have never meant or had any dealings with personally?

I see this point made all the time--"the how do you know them if you've never met them" argument.

Generally speaking, to "know" someone as a person, completely, inside and out is one thing and I would agree with this statement. One's breeding program is one very small portion of that person's life. When the details of someone's program breeding program are fact and put out there in the open for everyone to see, you base your opinion on that particular aspect off of what you have been provided. In those cases, you don't necessarily have to "meet" someone to know that you don't agree with some of their practices.

It doesn't mean they aren't model citizen in other areas of their lives.

ndyorkiemom · 04-23-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Interesting on why you think people are here at YT. I have an entirely different reason and it is not to buy or sell dogs.

I do want all of this to end but until both sides see what the judge has to say it needs to stay open.

I might add Toni isn't the person posting what the judge has to say because she got kicked off of YT. She didn't play by the rules and in some ways lost her rights but now she has more people posting for her and I do understand why but what I don't understand is why the other person hasn't seen the ruling from the judge and all of Toni's friends want it closed. Maybe what is being said is the correct thing, I just believe we should see both sides.

This is yet again another reason why I stay away from here, if you had taken the time to truely read my post you would have noticed that what I said was that I thought this was a place to help people learn and to find happy healthy well adjusted Yorkies.
Not once did I say it was only for helping them find a puppy or to sell them.
I don't understand why you feel the need to keep this going, all it is doing is causing more discontent... If the original poster decides to post the result of the hearing then so be it, all will see the answer. But between now and then why should the hatefullness continue?
In the future if you are going to quote me please use all of my words not just what you want. I can get into my own messes without the help of others when it comes to something I said.

Love A Yorkie · 04-24-2010, 05:41 AM

I don't understand why you are so upset with me all I said I don't think a Yorkie should be kept in an outside Kennel and I don't. I don't think they should be kept in any Kennel. Why have a Yorkie or any dog if you don't have interatction all the time with them and they are a true part of the family. I did say I don't know her and was commenting on the way the lady told she has her Yorkies. I know there are two sides to every story but there is truth in each side. And yes I agree with you she just might be a model citizen but I just don't agree with having Yorkies in a Kennel that is the bottom line. Have a great day.

04-22-2010, 10:12 PM	#66
Love A Yorkie YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: USA Posts: 8	Bad Breeder I do not know this breeder but I do not think any Yorkie should be kept outside in a Kennel. Sounds like a breeder that is in it for the money and not for the Love of a Yorkie. It is so important for the Yorkie to have contact with people as it is for any dog/puppy. There are a lot of good breeders out there as well as some bad breeders and it seems the bad breeders give the good ones a bad name. I am a small home breeder and couldn't think of putting any of my furbabies outside in a Kennel. They ALL sleep with me and before I breed any male I take him into the vet and have his sperm looked at to make sure everything is good; if I run across a stud with any bad sperm they are fixed and kept as my pet. My main goal is to try very hard to put only quality puppies out on the market. I have what I thought was a breeder friend that Lives in Orlando, FL that bred her female that has stadge 4 patella problems and a bad overbit. I told her to sell the puppies as pet only as to not pass the problem on but did she NO she sold a Parti Yorkie to a breeder in Cocca Beach, FL and never even told her the defect in the dam. How BAD now that is a bad breeder. Her name is Phyllis with AList Yorkies out of Orlando. Just make sure when looking for a precious baby the buyer needs to do the research and even talk to the breeders vet, other buyers from the breeder. I just do not understand breeders like this I guess it is the all mighty dollar talking. Sad Sad Sad. Love A Yorkie!!!!!

04-23-2010, 10:53 AM	#67
magicgenie Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: England Posts: 819	I'm happy for Toni--- And wish to express, once again, that it's really quite sickening to come on this board and see so many people with no experience whatsoever with the breeder participating in a bashing frenzy. You not only don't know the breeder, but many of the comments show you don't know anything about breeding.

04-23-2010, 02:34 PM	#71
ndyorkiemom Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: North Dakota Posts: 336	I don't post here much because of threads like this and several others but, I would like to say a few words now. The fighting that goes on here is unbelievable to me, yes we are here to help people learn and find healthy happy well adjusted Yorkies but does it have to be so hateful at times? Its fine to give your opinion on topics but surely they can be given without trying to cut the throats of others. How can you attack someone you have never meant or had any dealings with personally? All too many times peopel forget that there are two sides to every story and that ONLY the people involve truely know the answers to. I don't believe that any puppy should leave for their new home until they are a minimum of 12 weeks old PERIOD! I don't care who the new owner is or who the breeder is, that is just bad practice as well as asking for trouble. While I don't believe the contract should have been totally voided I do believe it should have been revised so that the breeder wasn't held responsible for the new owners misgivings should any arise. I will be the first to say that I know Toni personally and while we don't speak hardly at all anymore the person I knew seemed to truely care about her dogs. I have never bought a Yorkie from Toni so I can't comment on her dogs or on her contract but, Toni as a person I never had a problem with. I to keep all of my Yorkies in my home, they sleep with us, watch tv with us and eat veggie treats with us as well. No I can't imagine putting them in any other place away from me. That being said I can't and won't condem someone else for doing so as long as the area is keep clean and the dogs aren't being ignored as far as human companionship goes. Like several others have stated on this thread, the case has been settled legally now, I would think that these threads could be put to rest and people could get back to helpping people again. All of this is just my opinion so please to turn on me as well. I just think life is too short to have so much hate and discontent floating around. __________________ Terri www.littletsyorkshires.com

04-23-2010, 02:50 PM	#72
livingdustmops Princess Poop A Lot Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,728	Interesting on why you think people are here at YT. I have an entirely different reason and it is not to buy or sell dogs. I do want all of this to end but until both sides see what the judge has to say it needs to stay open. I might add Toni isn't the person posting what the judge has to say because she got kicked off of YT. She didn't play by the rules and in some ways lost her rights but now she has more people posting for her and I do understand why but what I don't understand is why the other person hasn't seen the ruling from the judge and all of Toni's friends want it closed. Maybe what is being said is the correct thing, I just believe we should see both sides. __________________ Cindy & The Rescued Gang Puppies Are Not Products! Last edited by livingdustmops; 04-23-2010 at 02:53 PM.

04-22-2010, 07:06 PM	#61
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	No breeder is perfect, all are subject to problems...problems with buyers, adult dogs and puppies. What the breeder does to correct the problem is my test of an ethical, reputable breeder. Have I ever had problems in 36 yr..of course, but I have done all I can to make things right..you can not BUY a good name and it is easy to ruin one. I wish Ms Ledbetter the best with her dogs.

04-22-2010, 08:18 PM	#62
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	So let me get this strait...the breeder won the suit because she had it included in her sales agreement that she did not offer a health guarantee against a pup so young and was therefor released of any responsibility? Why on Earth should she be congratulated for that!? Sounds like she won the case because she made sure to shield herself from being responsible for health issues her pups may develop, NOT because of good breeding ethics. IMO, not offering a health agreement on her dogs and releasing "a pup so young" only reinforces the claims that have been made about her.

04-24-2010, 05:41 AM	#75
Love A Yorkie YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: USA Posts: 8	I don't understand why you are so upset with me all I said I don't think a Yorkie should be kept in an outside Kennel and I don't. I don't think they should be kept in any Kennel. Why have a Yorkie or any dog if you don't have interatction all the time with them and they are a true part of the family. I did say I don't know her and was commenting on the way the lady told she has her Yorkies. I know there are two sides to every story but there is truth in each side. And yes I agree with you she just might be a model citizen but I just don't agree with having Yorkies in a Kennel that is the bottom line. Have a great day.