Celtic Irish Puppies - (Puppies by Marie)

[lisatodd]

i am so sorry. i just saw where you explained what happened.
that is just terrible.

[Gina2Westies]

It from a page on Dogster...hope the link works.

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/381013/d...s_diary/209943

[tegamom1]

Vilette, isn't Ireland where the jerk that Fox News in Houston did the story on goes and gets a lot of his dogs?

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by tegamom1

Vilette, isn't Ireland where the jerk that Fox News in Houston did the story on goes and gets a lot of his dogs?

Yes David was importing them from Ireland.

[karenmkremer]

Originally Posted by hondo

Hi - I discovered this site by accident. I purchased a Wheaten Terrier from "Puppies by Marie" less than four years ago. He was beautiful inside and out. We named him Trouble because he was a rip. After about six months he started urinating all over the house. I thought he had a kidney infection. He was diagnosed as having renal dysplasia. I called Marie and she said all of her dogs have been healthy and this is the first time she ever heard about this illness. She asked for my number and said she would call me. I never heard from her again. The vet said there is not much that can be done as far as medicine goes. We had to put Trouble on a prescription diet - low salt and low protein. We administered IV every night. I also took him to a holistic doctor in Westchester who prescribed different herbs and vitamins. Our hearts broke this year on New Year's Day when Trouble went to a better place.

Hondo

Hello,

I came across this site and read your story and was sad and upset. I'm so sorry to hear what happened to Trouble. I'm also upset because she has had health problems with Wheaton's before. My husband and I bought two wheatons from her in 2001. The girl urinated all the time so we took her to the vet. I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like - her bladder wasn't allowed to fully form because a lot of organs weren't developing right. She was past operating and was put to sleep. I told Marie about this and she did offer to replace the pup, but we were too upset to think about it. I never took her up on the offer because I had a funny feeling about. I'm upset that she said all her puppies are healthy.

I need to find out more about her operations.

[Gina2Westies]

Karen, so sorry to hear about your bad experience with Marie from Celtic Irish Puppies. Sick puppies and other genetic conditions appear to be all too common with her pups. I met at least a DOZEN other people including people from yorkietalk.com and dogster.com that have had bad experiences too.

[kathy785]

Dublin came from Marie and had kennel cough when we got him. At the time I thought that it was probably from his trip over here since Marie went on and on about how strict the breeding programs were in IRE. She said they were much more careful there and that was why thery didn't have rabies and the pups didn't have to be quarantined when coming into the States.

I don't know about the regulations from Ireland, but when dogs come from Germany they do not need to be quarantined either. They only need rabies if shipped after 12 weeks of age (all of mine were!!!). Maybe this "broker" was getting them before 12 weeks of age?? I would think that customs would be interested to know that she is importing for resell, as I think the rules are a bit different if the dog is not for your own breeding program or your own pet.

[Yorkiekids]

It always makes me sad to hear about bad breeders. I just don't know how people can be so cruel. Are they really that hard up for money?

[Gina2Westies]

The pups are definately shipped here BEFORE 12 weeks. Im not sure of the regulations, but what you mentioned about customs is interesting

[kathy785]

The dogs/puppies have to go through US Customs. To do this you need health papers, and a bill of sale declaring a value and intended use. So I am pretty sure the US Customs office does not know she is selling all of these dogs. If they do, I bet she has to pay hefty taxes on them.


I have used Custom Brokers (know a great company in Denver!!) to clear the dogs for me. All I have to do is to go to cargo and pick them up. We give the Customs Broker all of the paper work (Bill of Sale, health papers, and Airway bill). He runs from Cargo to Customs for us. We have the pet transportation service in Germany fax or email copies of everything to the Customs Broker, so the dogs are released before they even land. If anyone ever decideds to import, I would be more than happy to talk with you. Worse part is you have to buy a dog from a picture and hope that the person overseas is honest. Most of the German breeders do not guarantee their dogs.

[judyeve]

When I was looking around for a breeder I was warned about this woman by a YTCA breeder. I'm so sorry about your loss.

[Gina2Westies]

I came across this article from the Irish Times and it was worth passing along even though it was written in 2004.
__________________________________________________ _____________
Welcome to the puppy farm capital

1 Feb 2004
The Irish Times

By Karlin Lillington

When they raided the house, the dachshunds were everywhere -- in sealed containers, closed boxes, dumped in a van, in stinking dark rooms in an unheated, derelict house, clumps of hair missing, ribs showing, infested with lice.

Over a hundred little sausage dogs, adults and tiny puppies, were being "farmed" in County Tipperary. The story of last week's raid by the ISPCA in conjunction with the Ulster and Dublin SPCAs was prominent in the news, triggering 5,000 compassionate calls to the ISPCA, offering homes to the dogs. *!@

But the miserable dachshunds are part of a grim industry that must rank as Ireland's darkest, bleakest "agricultural" secret. Not only are such farms not unusual, but, say international animal welfare authorities, Ireland is Europe's -- perhaps the world's -- puppy farm capital. Here, cheap, poor quality purebred dogs are mass-produced by the hundreds in cages, bitches bred and bred successively until they drop. Ireland also has the highest per capita rate of stray dog euthanasia in the EU, with 23,000 dogs put down annually.

"What this is, is the factory farming of puppies," says Alastair Keen, head of operations for the ISPCA and the man who closed down the dachshund farm. "These are immoral breeding operations." He estimates Ireland has as many as 100 such operations, some with as many as 500 to 700 dogs. Closing them is an ISPCA priority.

Ireland is a haven for puppy farms because not a single piece of legislation exists to control them or protect the welfare of the dogs, besides the Dog Act -- intended for pet owners, not commercial operations that operate in a grey area of legitimacy. Nothing limits how long the dogs may be bred, or how many times. They can be kept in any enclosure; there's no rule that they must have outdoor runs or -- in the case of indoor breeds -- that they be kept warm indoors. EU chickens have more rights; livestock farmers have more legal responsibilities.

Until last month the ISPCA had only a single inspector (now there are five). As a result, says Keen, few puppy farmers (called "millers" in the US) have to fear a raid, and keep the dogs in dreadful conditions, often ill and unkempt and filthy in their own feces, held in wire crates or makeshift kennels in cold, damp farm outbuildings, some held inside in dark, windowless rooms.

They are sold through brokers to pet buyers, at premium prices but always just below what reputable breeders charge, in Britain and North America, and to a lesser extent, Europe. Profits can be huge.

Keen, who came from the RSPCA and who has a pet mongrel himself, knows of four puppy farms in close proximity in the Midlands, where he recently tried to close down the worst. Though conditions were grim, Keen can only act on clear examples of cruelty, and keeping dogs in what many would consider revolting circumstances does not, in Ireland's unlicensed, unregulated system, constitute cruelty.

"He has 500 breed dogs. I doubt any are vaccinated or have ever been seen by a vet. It's a time bomb waiting to happen. Yet I had to walk away because there's no 'cruelty'."

"Ireland is synonymous with puppy farming. It is the most vile despicable trade in misery," says one reputable dog breeder in Northern Ireland. "Here in the North dealers are bringing puppies from farms in the South to either sell here or take them by ferry to the mainland via Scotland."

One such puppy transporter is Irish farmer John Walsh, the man who was jailed for illegally importing sheep into Armagh during the foot and mouth epidemic, sheep that later were found to have the disease.

In November he pleaded guilty to causing unnecessary suffering to 49 puppies, found in poor condition in his van arriving by ferry into Scotland. Nine needed emergency vet treatment.

The BBC reported last month that raids had netted "hundreds of Irish puppies in shipments of 50-100 at UK ferry ports, from Irish puppy farms comprising hundreds of dogs" kept in squalid conditions.

Reputable breeders in the US say brokers -- middlemen who buy up the puppies for resale -- regularly receive large shipments of*!@ Irish puppies of breeds that are costly in the US, such as the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. These dogs are shipped without quarantine requirements or scrutiny because Ireland is a rabies-free country.

According to Gabriele Pollmeier, a US-based breeder who lived in Ireland for 10 years and is familiar with the system, "a fairly large number of brokers regularly bring [Cavaliers] in from Ireland, and sell them here via the Internet or the newspapers to unsuspecting buyers." She has witnessed a shipment of 25 puppies at Atlanta's airport that were underage*!@ and sickly.

"What a sight. Poor things. They were on their way from a [puppy farm] in Ireland - had left Shannon that morning and were to fly on to Dallas to a well-known broker," she says.

Irish dogs are also used to stock US puppy mills because, unlike dogs that come from reputable breeders, they carry no breeding restrictions (a "neuter" clause). US sources feel some reputable Irish breeders are unknowingly selling dogs to mills and brokers in the US, believing they are for American families.

Says one US breeder:"Here in the Minnesota area Irish dogs have such a bad rap that if buyers find out your foundation stuff came from Ireland they class it with trash." Another reports her friend's sickly, Irish "champion-bred" dogs bought from a puppy farm broker had worthless, forged Irish Kennel Club papers. Such dogs are frequently offered on US websites by known brokers who claim "Irish relatives" send them the dogs. The trade is hugely damaging to the many reputable professional Irish dog breeders.

"The dogs that come from the farms are typically ill or inbred or behaviourally disturbed," says Keen. With little contact with humans in crucial early weeks when socialization to humans is essential, animal welfare workers say such dogs end up difficult to housetrain and socialize, and then are abandoned, dumped in shelters and pounds (see accompanying story below).

Keen wants commercial operations to be licensed by the State, with clear rules on how dogs should be housed and maintained, and mandatory inspections. Reputable breeders say mass shippers of dogs should need vet clearances from a certified state vet. And auctions of breeding dogs should be illegal.

Breeders in Ireland say the Irish Kennel Club could do more by publishing a regular gazette of IKC puppy registrations, which would reveal the farms and their bloodlines for buyers and sellers. Many US and UK breed clubs, as well as the reputable kennel clubs, do this.

Keen says that during his time with the RSPCA, dogs they seized that came from puppy farms -- even UK-based farms -- typically had faked IKC registration papers. The IKC says it is aware of the puppy farm issue and fake registrations.

"The problem is there's very little legislation," says press relations officer Wendy Jackson. The IKC would support a licensing and inspection system, she says. The club has only recently begun to computerize its registration records, which will help it identify possible puppy farms. But Jackson says it is not knowingly processing registrations for farmed dogs, and that it only registers a modest number of dogs annually.

The Department of the Environment, under whose aegis the Dog Act falls, says it is in discussion with the ISPCA on steps that could be taken to address the farms. But like the Irish people, the Department seemed unaware of the scale of operations here.

A real problem in Ireland is that many people "don't see anything wrong with what the puppy farms are doing," sighs one animal welfare worker who has seen the horrors inside the farms. "Animal welfare in Ireland is quite behind the times. Just look at how many dogs we put down every year."

But that may be changing. The ISPCA just introduced a National Cruelty Helpline, which in January alone clocked 8,000 calls. But without greater legal powers, the ISPCA will have little chance of combating the misery of the puppy farms, and, for now, we seem content to turn our backs on thousands of small lives.

[kim10924]

sorry to hear about your awlful stories. i too called them before i got molly. They tell quite a story about how strick Ireland is about their dogs which is great. I don't think the are honest people.... someone should shut them down!

[NYWestieLove]

I stumbled across this thread, and I just had to register to post my own story about Marie.

6 years ago my parents went to her to get a Westie. At the time she was charging $700 for a dog when everyone else was charging $1100. They were regaled with the same tales of the how Ireland is so strict, and she (I believe) actually said it was her brother that was importing them for her.

The puppy they brought home was sick. 3 days after they had it, it was very sick, and they called Marie. Marie told them to bring the dog to her so she could see it. On the way there, the puppy died in my mom's arms. Marie said she had other puppies available, and gave them another dog. Since their interest was to save my little sister from having to deal with a dead puppy, they were quite happy with the remedy, and never thought twice about it. However, it too had 'kennel cough', also known as bordetella. Usually dogs can only get this when they are kept in close proximity to other infected dogs, such as at a kennel. She was treated with antibiotics, and was fine afterwards.

Now, as the new dog has grown up, we see her to have a wide yellow streak down her back, grey/brown fur growing in at the paws. I cannot comment on the physical qualities other than she is built like a tank - which could be genetics or could be just over weight. But she is loved, and has wonderful personality. She was never meant to be shown or bred, but it wasn't until I found this thread that it started to sink in on us that this is just from poor breeding.

Last year, I decided I wanted a westie of my own. I called several breeders who wanted $1400-$2000 for pups. Mostly only males were available, and I wanted a female. The breeders had many annoying (to me) rules such as 1) I agree to spay or neuter the puppy within 6 months, or 2) if I show the dog, the dog must be shown under the breeder's name until it receives it's championship, or 3) if I breed the dog, the breeder will have say over who it is bred with, and will get first pick of the litter of puppies. These rules seemed very intrusive, and did not make me feel like I was owning a dog at all, but only 'renting' someone else's dog. My parents suggested Marie. I checked with the WHWTC and Marie was not on the list. My parents reassured me that they have had no problems with their dog, medically, and Marie gives a one-year warranty on all her dogs. Combined with the steep price which I didn't have, I asked my parent's for Marie's number.

I rang up Marie, and she told me she had two females available right at that moment. I was so surprised since most of the breeders had waiting lists of weeks to several months. I raced almost 300 miles to meet Marie that night. Sure enough, she gave me the same story as 6 years ago. The puppies were in a baby crib in the living room. Both were very excited to see me. Both were very small. I was told they were born at the end of February, and this was over Mother's day that I was buying them. If I remember correctly, I calculated the age at 11 weeks. She asked for $1000, but if I paid in cash she wouldn't charge me tax. What a deal, I thought! But then she started pushing me to purchase her coat/conditioner supplement, her multivitamin tablet, and her multivitamin powder, which upped the bill almost $75. I forewent the dog crate she was selling, and the dog food, of which is not even rated very highly by dogfoodanalysis.com.

My dog is now just over a year old. So far no serious medical conditions have arisen. She does not seem to be allergic to some of the common Westie diet problems. Nor does she have poor skin. I do use very high quality pet shampoos and conditioners though, and only bathe her when she gets dirty.

Her coat is not naturally straight, but does have some waviness to it. I think this is natural. After stripping her last year, it did get a little straighter and harsher, as it is supposed to. One thing to note is that not all her nails are black, which is the ideal, and there is a patch of fine gray/brown hair at the base of her tail. I had attributed this to perhaps a throw back from the cairn terrier that they come from, but it could also be poor breeding. My dog also has much more 'delicate' features compared to my parents' dog, but she is by no means fragile, just not as large. It always made me wonder though if my dog was on the small side, or if my parents' dog was on the large size? Comparing my 14 month old dog to another westie that is about 9 months old now, they are almost the same size.

After reading this thread I am very alarmed at the thought that Marie is an importer of puppy mill dogs. It is quite sad. I just don't know what else to say, but I hope that anyone looking into getting a dog from her might consider looking elsewhere.

[Dee_F]

I came across this forum when looking up Marie’s site to recommend her for the umpteen time. As someone who has been very satisfied with her puppies, I felt I should provide the other point of view. As a small business owner myself, I may also be a little sensitive to what feels like unfair criticism.

We - my husband, 2 daughters and a son - have purchased 2 yorkies (Kate and Corky) and a westie (Paddy) from Marie over the years. We were initially drawn to her due to the connection with Ireland, we being of Irish descent ourselves. But we returned to her as our canine family grew because we were so VERY SATISFIED with the health and disposition of our previous puppies. Sure, our pups had coughs etc over the years (as have our children), but frankly these episodes only proved Marie’s worth. She was always there to counsel and advise by phone or email, even long after the sale.

In addition, we have recommended Marie to countless friends, relatives, business associates and even strangers over the years. At least 6 ended up purchasing pups from her and all have thanked us for the recommendation. 2 of them were repeat buyers like ourselves.

The story on this forum is horrible and I certainly don’t want to imply that there isn’t truth to it, but I do think it unfair to imply that this small business owner has no satisfied customers. We, and many puppy lovers that we know, have been very satisfied with Marie and would whole heartedly recommend her.

I would be happy to discuss my experience further with anyone considering a new puppy.

- Deidre