a little info for people so against mixing - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

red98vett · 05-09-2007, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JESSY_RN2B

Personally, I don't believe the way the yorkshire terrier was bred and 'developed' could be even compared to what is being practiced now with the current mixed breeds.

We all have strong opinions and oposing ones at that-so this is an ongoing topic. I don't agree with mixing and that is just my personal opinion-I also understand it shouldn't have to be everyone's.

I agree my2boyz & Jessy

I love ALL dogs but it makes me sad to see the zillions of sites up now selling 'designer dogs' when we have a major shelter-dog problem in this country. Giving a dog a cutsy name and a big price tag makes people think they're getting something special...it's just bad for all dogs in the bigger scope of things.

Diego · 05-09-2007, 04:18 AM

There is a difference between developing a breed and just breeding mixes to sell dogs.[/QUOTE]

FlDebra · 05-09-2007, 04:18 AM

Tammy -- I think some of your information is incorrect. You do say that you are quoting from some places including the akc.org -- but the idea that the maltese is part of the genetic history of the Yorkshire terrier is probably not correct. I do not think you will find any reputable history of the breed that includes the maltese. AKC.org certainly does not, the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America does not. I know there are some websites to be found that seem to have made up there own info -- you have to be careful who you quote and believe.

The Yorkshire Terrier does come from SELECTIVE breeding. Long before there WAS an AKC and breed standards people bred dogs with specific purposes in mind. Once these breeds were established, organizations formed, breed standards, judging, shows, etc... THEN even more selective breeding was done to refine the breed. Generations of very meticulous care, education, and study went into giving us this remarkable breed. So, when someone comes along and says I want to breed this yorkie with a (a) (b) or (c) and "SEE WHAT WE GET" it does rankle a lot of folks.

Beyond the worry about finding homes for all the little mixed breeds, I worry about the ones that wind up looking "all yorkie" and get sold that way. Down the line, puppies start veering more and more from the finely established features the breed has become famous for. It is all too easy to register these breeds with some of the off shoot registeries. Then a novice decides to become a breeder, the puppies look like Yorkies. But as the dog grows the subtle differences become stronger. "Well, its just a big yorkie, it's just a big-eared yorkie, it's just a square jaw yorkie" -- no, somewhere in the line there was probably one of these little mixes unwittingly bred.

GIANT STEPS BACKWARDS!!!! How many correct breedings do you think have to happen before those mixed qualities are out? 3 generations, 5 generations, a dozen?

Another thing is continued breeding. Now that you have your little mixes, do you breed them with other little mixes? Do you realize the vast range of characteristics that are possible? Someone buying the puppies will have no way to imagine how the adult dog will look. Course the seller may not even care, the money is safely in their pocket whle the puppy is little and cute. But someone thinking they were bringing home a Yorkie looking puppy may be very surprised when the dog looks completely different at adulthood.

I think experimentation should be saved for the chemistry set -- breed to standards within the same breed or spay them. Others have every right to disagree though. As a whole we will never all agree on politics, religion, or how to breed dogs. That's life.

FlDebra · 05-09-2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

There is a difference between developing a breed and just breeding mixes to sell dogs.

Summed up perfectly in that sentence!

natalienicole · 05-09-2007, 04:27 AM

I personally think some of the best dogs ive ever had were mixed dogs. but on the other side all my mixed breed dogs that ive ever had were accidents that someones dog accidently got pregnant from the neighbors dog or w/e and it wasnt really to better anything at all. But I do know their are people at least in my area who breed these mixes for money and money alone. i saw how popular the labradoddle or w/e was here and now they are not so popular and they are all over ads people trying to get rid of them. Someone i went to school with purchased one and she paid money for it and just the other dya i was searching a well known in my area ad site and it was on there that she was trying to get rid of her labradoddle. its just so sad. that also being sad their are people who also get tired of their purebreed dogs and try to get rid of them too. I think people need to realize that getting a dog is a life comitment if not for you for them. So i know its not right for people to say its jsut for the mixed dogs but i do think that if a purebreed owner tires of their dog it is easier to give away then a mixed dog. mixed dogs usually go to the shelter, where as iv never seen a purebreed dog in any shelter in my area.

jacky · 05-09-2007, 04:28 AM

1st let me just say. No offense to those who have designer dogs.
2nd let me say, I had 2 lhasas for many years and never ONCE did they ever bite any1 or anything (except that squeaky french fry toy lol :P) They are great dogs and dont judge an ENTIRE BREED.
3rd, i work at a rescue and if you think that all there is in there are old mix breed large dogs YOU ARE WRONG. we have purebred puppies, mix puppies, small puppies, large purebreds and EVREYTHING IN BETWEEN. think of evrey irresponsible person that gets a dog. how many of those dogs they got because they wanted a purebred? a golden retriever that could play basketball, a border collie that was smart, a jackrussel that would be like frasier, a dalmatian because of the movie? those are some the dogs that end up in shelts.

Mardelin · 05-09-2007, 04:41 AM

Let me add one more thing. I grew up with mixed breed dogs and a few pure bred ones too. And yes, at times my pooch ended having litters, because back then we didn't alter our dogs, but the pups were given away to family members and friends.

But, by becoming emersed in the Yorkshire Terrier breed and in the sport of dogs it has given me a respect for the true dog fancier and their quest for breeding happy, well adjusted, well structured dogs and improving their breeds.

dray · 05-09-2007, 05:32 AM

By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore?
Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!!
__________________
I just have to say one thing here.... I was introduced to Lhasa's many years ago while helping a handler. As I reached into a ex- pen to rotate dogs one tried to bite me and the handled informed me that, that is not a Shih Tzu that is a Lhasa and they are a very different dog. After grooming for almost 30 years I have learned that statement several times over.....It is true that we can not lump all Lhasa as biters, but as groomers we know that this breed sends up red flags. We have seen them bite their owners too and yes there are other breeds that bite.

The worst dog I ever groomed was a Lhasa and I groomed him for 12 years and I kept asking myself why, as I stressed over it every time I saw his name on the appointment book. It was his owners, they were very nice and for some reason they loved this dog. Even though Bochi would bite them, they loved him.....So with a bit of drugs from his vet and a muzzle in hand we did the deed.
When I got the phone call that Bochi had gone to heaven I was sad for his family, but when I set the phone down I was smiling, rest in peace Bochi...

Mardelin · 05-09-2007, 05:52 AM

We all tend to put our personal experiences in about a breed, be they positive or negative. But, for the most part each breed has it's own set of statistics on temperament, which are more aggressive, which are sweet, wonderful with children, great hunters, etc. The Lhasa is overall not noted for being wonderful with children and a little bit unpredictable.

Pit Bulls are identified as a negative breed. I use to come home from work and find my neighbor's Pit Bull on my family room sofa, he'd come in through the fence and through the doggy door. This guy wouldn't hurt a flea....I'd have to rub his tummy to get him to move off the sofa and get him back home. This was exception.

And it does depend on how each dog is raised and socialized. But, we should always keep in mind when approaching any breed that they are first and foremost animals and can revert back to what every breed is noted for

jacky · 05-09-2007, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

We all tend to put our personal experiences in about a breed, be they positive or negative. But, for the most part each breed has it's own set of statistics on temperament, which are more aggressive, which are sweet, wonderful with children, great hunters, etc. The Lhasa is overall not noted for being wonderful with children and a little bit unpredictable.

Pit Bulls are identified as a negative breed. I use to come home from work and find my neighbor's Pit Bull on my family room sofa, he'd come in through the fence and through the doggy door. This guy wouldn't hurt a flea....I'd have to rub his tummy to get him to move off the sofa and get him back home. This was exception.

And it does depend on how each dog is raised and socialized. But, we should always keep in mind when approaching any breed that they are first and foremost animals and can revert back to what every breed is noted for

lol my neighbor has a dalmation just like that! i come home and the dog is snuggled up with my tiny charlie on the couch. once my grandmother came to visit and i wasnt home, she called me and explained that she took the dogs out shopping as a surprise for me. i said "what do you mean dogS , we only have 1 dog!" and then she explained that she loaded both charlie and diamond the dalmation into her car and went on a shopping spree with both at petsmart! lol well i explained that the other wasnt our dog, she was fine with it and said the dog was a sweetheart, and the neighbors where pleased when their dog came home with some new toys lol

natalienicole · 05-09-2007, 06:21 AM

I personally do not think its fair to speak for a dog breed based solely on your experiences especailly if only with one dog. the lahsa my uncle had was just as friendly as could be and never once bit anyone and my uncle always paid me and my sister when we were little to give it and his yorkie a bath. we never had any problems.
All dogs can bite even the ones you would think wouldnt. i had a pekeigneese who would bite and she was so tiny. And my brother once got bit by a poodle, but does that mean i think all poodles or pekeigneeses are bad. nope i sure dont.
And as for the pit bulls and rotwillers and all those bigger dogs who get bad raps its not only how they are raised but i think that its cuz when they bite they often actually cause serious injuries which is something the poodle and the peekigneese didnt do, they never caused anything serious where we had to rush to the doctor or anything but had one of those dogs been a pit bull sure we would have had to go. So we hear on the news and everywhere about how a pit bull attacked someone etc its because they can cause harm. how many yorkies or other small dogs do you think bite people every day and no one says anything.

yorkiegirl83 · 05-09-2007, 06:44 AM

I have 3 mixed breeds. One a yorkie poo, was my first dog and came from a petstore. I paid 1,000 for him and was told he was a "designer" dog... it made no difference to me at the time because I loved this puppy so much. This was before I really knew about puppy mills, which infact my little baby boy Bentley DID come from. My next was Emma, a jrt/yorkie cross who was bred by a family in the country... they had a wonderful set up for their dogs and were very loving although I do not think they had health testing.. she was $250 for a yo-jack as they called her =/. Lula my lhasa/bichon is from a kennel.. she was a gift so I had no part in buying a mixed breed again.. although I love her and can't imagine life w/o her.

Anyhow, that's my background so as you can see I LOVE mixes. I think some of the prettiest, sweetest dogs I've met are mixes too... not to take a thing away from pure bred dogs.. I love them as well.

What I do NOT love is the way breeders turn these mixes out for profit w/o any health or temperment testing, knowingly way overcharging for them, and adding to a growing overpopulation problem. In my opinion, even though I have mixes and love them, we as a country do NOT need any more new breeds of dogs!! We are overpopulated and I saw that you said there are no small breeds in your shelters.. well what about petfinder.. there are transports, rescues, ect that will bring a dog to qualified homes from other shelters. I think some people would be surprised at the amount of these designer pups sitting in shelters basically on death row... that possibly began as a loved pet that cost 6-7-800 dollars or more.

The only two mixes that I see much hard work and dedication into being recognized as a breed are the cockapoo and the labradoodle and they still have a far way to go. But, I do know that many people work towards creating this breed responsibly.. while others simply slap the name on their mixes and make a quick buck. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Labradoodles in my local paper for 1200 and I can guarantee those people aren't working to better the breed.

I'm not being judgey or preachey here.. I love ALL dogs -- but the breeding of so many mixes is truly flooding out the shelters in my opinion and I see it getting a lot worse unless it is practiced in a responsible manner.

yorkiegirl83 · 05-09-2007, 06:47 AM

Oh, I just saw all the remarks on lhasas.. I have a mix and while she is head strong and likes to get her way.. she is one of the silliest loving dogs I have ever seen. But yes, they do need a strong owner who doesn't let them get away with things.

TinyBit · 05-09-2007, 06:54 AM

WOW!!! alot of information and I can't add more... Just wanted to say that there are alot of mixed breeds in shelters along with alot of pure breeds.

Some people just don't think before getting a pet and don't consider it to be a lifetime pet.

They have them for a while and then Trade it in or get rid of it. Our world had become a disposable society.
Don't you all think?

Mardelin · 05-09-2007, 07:00 AM

I think to sum it up. One must do their homework on the breed they are interested in bringing into their family. Make a decision on what is best for their particular situation and go from there. Shelter dog, mixed breed or pure bred....small, large or in between....it's up to each of us.

I for one just wonder why some say they love a particular breed so much then turn around and cross breed it.

05-09-2007, 04:18 AM	#18
FlDebra Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL Posts: 7,651	Tammy -- I think some of your information is incorrect. You do say that you are quoting from some places including the akc.org -- but the idea that the maltese is part of the genetic history of the Yorkshire terrier is probably not correct. I do not think you will find any reputable history of the breed that includes the maltese. AKC.org certainly does not, the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America does not. I know there are some websites to be found that seem to have made up there own info -- you have to be careful who you quote and believe. The Yorkshire Terrier does come from SELECTIVE breeding. Long before there WAS an AKC and breed standards people bred dogs with specific purposes in mind. Once these breeds were established, organizations formed, breed standards, judging, shows, etc... THEN even more selective breeding was done to refine the breed. Generations of very meticulous care, education, and study went into giving us this remarkable breed. So, when someone comes along and says I want to breed this yorkie with a (a) (b) or (c) and "SEE WHAT WE GET" it does rankle a lot of folks. Beyond the worry about finding homes for all the little mixed breeds, I worry about the ones that wind up looking "all yorkie" and get sold that way. Down the line, puppies start veering more and more from the finely established features the breed has become famous for. It is all too easy to register these breeds with some of the off shoot registeries. Then a novice decides to become a breeder, the puppies look like Yorkies. But as the dog grows the subtle differences become stronger. "Well, its just a big yorkie, it's just a big-eared yorkie, it's just a square jaw yorkie" -- no, somewhere in the line there was probably one of these little mixes unwittingly bred. GIANT STEPS BACKWARDS!!!! How many correct breedings do you think have to happen before those mixed qualities are out? 3 generations, 5 generations, a dozen? Another thing is continued breeding. Now that you have your little mixes, do you breed them with other little mixes? Do you realize the vast range of characteristics that are possible? Someone buying the puppies will have no way to imagine how the adult dog will look. Course the seller may not even care, the money is safely in their pocket whle the puppy is little and cute. But someone thinking they were bringing home a Yorkie looking puppy may be very surprised when the dog looks completely different at adulthood. I think experimentation should be saved for the chemistry set -- breed to standards within the same breed or spay them. Others have every right to disagree though. As a whole we will never all agree on politics, religion, or how to breed dogs. That's life. __________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard

05-09-2007, 04:28 AM	#21
jacky YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Miami Posts: 308	1st let me just say. No offense to those who have designer dogs. 2nd let me say, I had 2 lhasas for many years and never ONCE did they ever bite any1 or anything (except that squeaky french fry toy lol :P) They are great dogs and dont judge an ENTIRE BREED. 3rd, i work at a rescue and if you think that all there is in there are old mix breed large dogs YOU ARE WRONG. we have purebred puppies, mix puppies, small puppies, large purebreds and EVREYTHING IN BETWEEN. think of evrey irresponsible person that gets a dog. how many of those dogs they got because they wanted a purebred? a golden retriever that could play basketball, a border collie that was smart, a jackrussel that would be like frasier, a dalmatian because of the movie? those are some the dogs that end up in shelts. __________________ Still looking for my perfect puppy My myspace <3

05-09-2007, 04:41 AM	#22
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	Let me add one more thing. I grew up with mixed breed dogs and a few pure bred ones too. And yes, at times my pooch ended having litters, because back then we didn't alter our dogs, but the pups were given away to family members and friends. But, by becoming emersed in the Yorkshire Terrier breed and in the sport of dogs it has given me a respect for the true dog fancier and their quest for breeding happy, well adjusted, well structured dogs and improving their breeds. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

05-09-2007, 05:52 AM	#24
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	We all tend to put our personal experiences in about a breed, be they positive or negative. But, for the most part each breed has it's own set of statistics on temperament, which are more aggressive, which are sweet, wonderful with children, great hunters, etc. The Lhasa is overall not noted for being wonderful with children and a little bit unpredictable. Pit Bulls are identified as a negative breed. I use to come home from work and find my neighbor's Pit Bull on my family room sofa, he'd come in through the fence and through the doggy door. This guy wouldn't hurt a flea....I'd have to rub his tummy to get him to move off the sofa and get him back home. This was exception. And it does depend on how each dog is raised and socialized. But, we should always keep in mind when approaching any breed that they are first and foremost animals and can revert back to what every breed is noted for __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

05-09-2007, 06:54 AM	#29
TinyBit It's a Yorkie Thing Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Walton KS Posts: 1,529 Blog Entries: 1	WOW!!! alot of information and I can't add more... Just wanted to say that there are alot of mixed breeds in shelters along with alot of pure breeds. Some people just don't think before getting a pet and don't consider it to be a lifetime pet. They have them for a while and then Trade it in or get rid of it. Our world had become a disposable society. Don't you all think? __________________ Loving Gizmo, Teddy, Duchess,and Faith : In Memory of My Duke of York 7-24-06 ~6-21-07 and Victorian Lacie Pearl 3-1-07 ~ 4-22-11

05-09-2007, 04:18 AM	#17
Diego Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 3,617	There is a difference between developing a breed and just breeding mixes to sell dogs.[/QUOTE]

05-09-2007, 04:27 AM	#20
natalienicole YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 286	I personally think some of the best dogs ive ever had were mixed dogs. but on the other side all my mixed breed dogs that ive ever had were accidents that someones dog accidently got pregnant from the neighbors dog or w/e and it wasnt really to better anything at all. But I do know their are people at least in my area who breed these mixes for money and money alone. i saw how popular the labradoddle or w/e was here and now they are not so popular and they are all over ads people trying to get rid of them. Someone i went to school with purchased one and she paid money for it and just the other dya i was searching a well known in my area ad site and it was on there that she was trying to get rid of her labradoddle. its just so sad. that also being sad their are people who also get tired of their purebreed dogs and try to get rid of them too. I think people need to realize that getting a dog is a life comitment if not for you for them. So i know its not right for people to say its jsut for the mixed dogs but i do think that if a purebreed owner tires of their dog it is easier to give away then a mixed dog. mixed dogs usually go to the shelter, where as iv never seen a purebreed dog in any shelter in my area.

05-09-2007, 05:32 AM	#23
dray Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Silverton Oregon Posts: 1,123	By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore? Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!! __________________ I just have to say one thing here.... I was introduced to Lhasa's many years ago while helping a handler. As I reached into a ex- pen to rotate dogs one tried to bite me and the handled informed me that, that is not a Shih Tzu that is a Lhasa and they are a very different dog. After grooming for almost 30 years I have learned that statement several times over.....It is true that we can not lump all Lhasa as biters, but as groomers we know that this breed sends up red flags. We have seen them bite their owners too and yes there are other breeds that bite. The worst dog I ever groomed was a Lhasa and I groomed him for 12 years and I kept asking myself why, as I stressed over it every time I saw his name on the appointment book. It was his owners, they were very nice and for some reason they loved this dog. Even though Bochi would bite them, they loved him.....So with a bit of drugs from his vet and a muzzle in hand we did the deed. When I got the phone call that Bochi had gone to heaven I was sad for his family, but when I set the phone down I was smiling, rest in peace Bochi...

05-09-2007, 06:21 AM	#26
natalienicole YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 286	I personally do not think its fair to speak for a dog breed based solely on your experiences especailly if only with one dog. the lahsa my uncle had was just as friendly as could be and never once bit anyone and my uncle always paid me and my sister when we were little to give it and his yorkie a bath. we never had any problems. All dogs can bite even the ones you would think wouldnt. i had a pekeigneese who would bite and she was so tiny. And my brother once got bit by a poodle, but does that mean i think all poodles or pekeigneeses are bad. nope i sure dont. And as for the pit bulls and rotwillers and all those bigger dogs who get bad raps its not only how they are raised but i think that its cuz when they bite they often actually cause serious injuries which is something the poodle and the peekigneese didnt do, they never caused anything serious where we had to rush to the doctor or anything but had one of those dogs been a pit bull sure we would have had to go. So we hear on the news and everywhere about how a pit bull attacked someone etc its because they can cause harm. how many yorkies or other small dogs do you think bite people every day and no one says anything.

05-09-2007, 06:44 AM	#27
yorkiegirl83 Love My Furbabies! Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: somewhere Posts: 4,427	I have 3 mixed breeds. One a yorkie poo, was my first dog and came from a petstore. I paid 1,000 for him and was told he was a "designer" dog... it made no difference to me at the time because I loved this puppy so much. This was before I really knew about puppy mills, which infact my little baby boy Bentley DID come from. My next was Emma, a jrt/yorkie cross who was bred by a family in the country... they had a wonderful set up for their dogs and were very loving although I do not think they had health testing.. she was $250 for a yo-jack as they called her =/. Lula my lhasa/bichon is from a kennel.. she was a gift so I had no part in buying a mixed breed again.. although I love her and can't imagine life w/o her. Anyhow, that's my background so as you can see I LOVE mixes. I think some of the prettiest, sweetest dogs I've met are mixes too... not to take a thing away from pure bred dogs.. I love them as well. What I do NOT love is the way breeders turn these mixes out for profit w/o any health or temperment testing, knowingly way overcharging for them, and adding to a growing overpopulation problem. In my opinion, even though I have mixes and love them, we as a country do NOT need any more new breeds of dogs!! We are overpopulated and I saw that you said there are no small breeds in your shelters.. well what about petfinder.. there are transports, rescues, ect that will bring a dog to qualified homes from other shelters. I think some people would be surprised at the amount of these designer pups sitting in shelters basically on death row... that possibly began as a loved pet that cost 6-7-800 dollars or more. The only two mixes that I see much hard work and dedication into being recognized as a breed are the cockapoo and the labradoodle and they still have a far way to go. But, I do know that many people work towards creating this breed responsibly.. while others simply slap the name on their mixes and make a quick buck. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Labradoodles in my local paper for 1200 and I can guarantee those people aren't working to better the breed. I'm not being judgey or preachey here.. I love ALL dogs -- but the breeding of so many mixes is truly flooding out the shelters in my opinion and I see it getting a lot worse unless it is practiced in a responsible manner.

05-09-2007, 06:47 AM	#28
yorkiegirl83 Love My Furbabies! Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: somewhere Posts: 4,427	Oh, I just saw all the remarks on lhasas.. I have a mix and while she is head strong and likes to get her way.. she is one of the silliest loving dogs I have ever seen. But yes, they do need a strong owner who doesn't let them get away with things.

05-09-2007, 07:00 AM	#30
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	I think to sum it up. One must do their homework on the breed they are interested in bringing into their family. Make a decision on what is best for their particular situation and go from there. Shelter dog, mixed breed or pure bred....small, large or in between....it's up to each of us. I for one just wonder why some say they love a particular breed so much then turn around and cross breed it. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*