Should I say something or keep my mouth shut?
 

Tucker is almost a year (in November) and he now weighs 18 lbs. I wouldn't trade him for the world, but I can't help feel upset that the breeder was negligent.

Either:

A. She wasn't an experienced or responsible enough of a breeder to know he would exceed AKC standards.

or

B. She knew and sold him the same price as his much small siblings anyhow.

Regardless, I got a yorkie because of my allergies and they were pretty good candidates for agility trails. I was really hoping we'd be eligible for the purebreed trials, and not just the ones open to non-AKC.

Is it too late to bring up the fact that I am upset to have a dog that was supposedly bred from a 6-lb mother and a 5-lb father come out to be THREE times the size of the mother?

I was not expecting a "teacup" or something outrageously small or misbred, but just your normal 6-7 lb Yorkie. I was expecting the breed standard, nothing more and nothing less.

Now, I'm interested in a second dog for a companion and I really like the size of Tucker because you can rough 'em up while playing and not worry about hurting him as much...but if I get another Yorkie it might be a "normal" sized one and make my current dog look like a breed outcast. I'm almost wanting two Tuckers for the price I paid for him. I like having a sturdy, sporty dog so a "yorkie" the size of Tucker might not be a bad idea as a second dog.

Would it be wrong for me to ask for some kind of discount on the next "large" pup she has? Would it be wrong to simply voice my issues with her service?

I have spoken to several breeders about my issue with her and they all said they learned to recognize what the breed standard was and how to better guess which pups would fall under it and which wouldn't. If they didn't think a puppy would make the size, coat, color requirement then they would discount, or find a home for it. A more humane option to culling it. They ALL agreed that by no means would they advertise it as being registerable as meeting those standards and sell it full price, let alone not informing the customer of what the breeder had taken notice to. A few of them agreed that if you are a breeder that does not know to recognize a potential in a pup to meet those standards, or that does not care to learn to, that they should not be breeding dogs at all.

I don't know what to do. Tucker needs a dog his own size, plus I have my allergies and small pets that other hypo-allergetic or non-shedding breeds will go after.

What should I do? Keep my mouth shut or voice my concerns and see if she's willing to work with me?

Thanks for your opinions.

I was always told "it doesn't hurt to ask", you won't be worse off if you do. I would be prepared though to hold your composure if she tells you no. Maybe take Tucker with you when you talk with her.

I would go talk to her...:)

You can talk to her.. He is a pretty big boy.
Did she guarantee the size??
A breeder can only estimate a size.

Somewhere down in the lines there were some big Yorkies.
And if her pups are mainly in the 5-7 lb range then he was a throw back.
She does need to be aware that her line did produce an overly large pup.

I know you wished he was smaller..and you didn't get what you thought you were paying for....So.. hopefully she will help you out.

Some people get upset when the dog turns out to be larger then expected (feel they got ripped off) and other are happy when the dog turns out to be smaller then expected (feel they got a great deal).

But.. lets say he was suppose to be 7lbs and turned out to be a 2 or 3 lb'er. It would not be right for a breeder to come back and say...I want more money because the dog turned out smaller.

A case in point ..a friend of mine who sells her pups at a set price..
which are normally in the 5-6 lb range but one of the pup she sold turned out to be 2.3 lbs at 8 month old....The woman got a great deal.

But.. any ways it never hurts to ask.. if she is a good breeder she will work with you...good luck to you..:)

Communication
 

I say call the breeder.....open the communication. I am not sure what you paid for your yorkie....but, I would think if your breeder has bred Yorkies for more than a year or two, she would have the experience to know what to expect out of her line. Not absolute.....but a good guess.

Now, a Yorkie being a 7 or 8 or 9 lb Yorkie is quite a bit different than an 18 lb Yorkie.

At the very least....she should give you a HUGE discount.......but, most reputable breeders would offer to replace the Yorkie that you already have. Remember, they too are breeding to meet the "standard", which is as you know.....4-7 lbs.

The decision may then be up to you........do you want your Yorkie replaced????



I say call the breeder, talk it out!


Good Luck and best wishes

I agree that it's a big differance in a 7-8-9 lb'er compared to an 18 lb'er.
I'd be interested in knowing what the size of the parents are.
It can still be a throw back..
A little history on the breed.
The Yorkshire Terrier had its beginnings as a breed in the Yorkshire, Manchester and Leeds counties in the northern part of England. The weavers of Scotland brought their families and dogs with them when they left their homeland. The Industrial Revolution had forced them out of work. The time was the mid 19th century, 1860’s and 1870’s. The dogs that accompanied these families were for the most part the sturdy Scottish Terrier. The Paisley and Clydesdale Terrier’s bloodlines were probably also included in the bloodlines. These were all working men’s dogs, used to keep the vermin under control in the textile mills and coal mines. What bloodlines were used to establish the Yorkshire Terrier is subject to much speculation, due to the fact that the breeders of these dogs did not write down who was bred to whom. If they liked the spirit and looks of the dogs, they mated them. It was chancey at best.
It is guessed that the Yorkshire county miners crossed the Black and Tan English Terrier, this dog was rough-coated, and the long-coated, blue-gray Waterside Terrier breeds were infused in the Scottish Terriers. The Maltese and Skye Terrier are also possibilities.
In 1865, the foundation sire of the Yorkshire Terrier breed, was born. Huddersfield Ben was owned by M.A. Foster, and he enjoyed a very public life, to popularize the breed in England. He demonstrated that he was very successful in the rat killing contests (these were quite popular in the 19th century), and he won more than 70 prizes as a show dog as well.
In 1872, the Yorkshire Terrier was introduced into the United States, and was recognized by the AKC in 1878. But it wasn’t until the 1930’s that the Yorkshire Terrier took on its modern look.
It is important to note that the Yorkshire Terrier up until the 1930’s usually weighed approximately 30 pounds, not the 3 to 7 pounds it does today.

I would contact her and expess your concerns on his growing to 18 lbs and se what she says. My first Yorkie Karma was 18 lbs but the breeder showed me the aunt not the parents and I was 17 and knew nothing other than I wanted a yorkie. It wasn't his size that bothered me so much as he never grew any coat and his ears were floppy. Loved him but he wasn't anything like a Yorkie except for coloring. He was sturdy!!

It doesn't hurt to ask. I don't see where you have anything to lose. If she refuses, I wouldn't think you would buy another Yorkie from her at full price anyway.

I would imagine though that if you had a contract it states on there somewhere that she doesn't guarantee size. That is pretty standard. The breeder I purchased from stated that she was positive mine wouldn't be over 2 pounds. Well she is 3 pounds at 5 months which is fine with me except for the fact that she charged me extra due to her size.

My vet doesn't believe she was the 10 weeks old that the breeder stated when I got her because of the progress of her teeth. It frightens me that breeders may be tempted to sell their pups earlier than ideal so that they can get more money for them because of their small size. :(

I would contact her just to let her know what size he grew to be. She needs to know this if she breeds the sire and dam together again - what could happen and might not want to breed them together again.
* This is sooooo important - no breeder can guarantee the size of the pup when it reaches maturity!!* It is like your own kids - can you tell how tall or how much your son or daughter will be? No. The scale helps, but is not written in stone and is only a guess.
This is also why you need to know the weight and qualities of the grandparents and as far back as you can get. Size can come from any of the generations and not just the from sire and dam.
T.

Although he is 18 lbs, as long as sire and dam are AKC registered he can still be AKC registered and participate in AKC agility trials.
The breeder likely was inexperienced to know he could get to this sort of size.
From reading this thread, it sounds like many of you don't understand when you are buying a pet puppy (not for conformation shows) you will be getting a puppy that does not meet the stringent standards of reputable show breeder that they would consider for show quality, if that is the type of the breeder you are buying from.
However, a reputable knowledgable show breeder would definitely not sell a puppy at the regular PET price that would get to this size. A knowledgable show breeder definitely would have an idea this would happen. I would never ever suggest putting any puppy or dog to sleep because it is too big or too something unless it had some sort of horrible disease and was suffering and would die anyway.
You will also most of the time, not be buying a 12 week old puppy from a show breeder, most of the time they are more than 4 months old. At that age we are a little surer of what we have. I seldom sell a pet puppy under 5 months of age.
Any puppy that does not meet a show breeders standards for a reasonably good show dog and therefore would be kept for the show rings and breeding purposes, are sold for pet.

you should say something but most likely unless this was her 1st breeding and litter she knows what size puppies her dogs produce but you never can tell how big or small they truly may be until they are actually grown.

If you want another one his size why not look into a rescue Yorkie? There are plenty of them in shelters and rescue homes because they turned out larger than expected.

I agree with the rescuing suggestion. There are plenty of larger sized yorkies that need to be rescued and ou would be providing them wiht a wonderful and loving home.

Patti - Well his size is one issue, his ears never trained and his coat is more the curly variation than silky. I could bring up this, as well, but I'm over all that and it never really mattered to start with. I like his floppy ears. :)

About the rescue, I have to be careful because I have a six-year-old daughter, pet rats, and sugar gliders. I worked with Tucker since seven weeks old to be around the other pets, and also socialized him with the cats and other dogs, and just about any other animal he might come across (horses, goats, and even a monkey!) So, early socialization is a really important factor to me and I am concerned that the dog might have had a run-in with a child who didn't know how to handle dogs, and be snippy with all children. It's a possibility, I pop my head into the local shelters and rescues and petfinder.com every now and again. I actually found a 12-lb female yorkie about the same age as Tucker that was being fostered, but the very day I inquired about her she was adopted and going home the next day. I can trust Tucker with my sugar glider and I'd really like the opportunity to teach another dog how I'd like them to act around the smaller pets, but if I find the right (slightly older) oversized dog, I will be checking her out. I'm just going to be super careful about bringing home the first furbaby that needs a home without making sure they fit into our household. :)

Yorkiegirl2 - I was aware of the Yorkshire being a larger dog prior to 1930, and that's not what bothers me. I actually wish there were an actual breed with the same size and attributes as the original, maybe an Old Yorkshire Terrier hahah I don't know. It was the just the fact that current standards were exceeded and I was not told of any suspicion that they might.

He was one of seven pups when I showed up to visit the litter. It was evident that he was the larger, "huskier" pup out of the litter. I am quite positive that two of his sisters who were soooo tiny and shivering are most likely in the 3-lb. range as adults. The sizes in pups was across the spectrum. There was surely some indication of mine being the "healthier" and stockier one of the bunch. I should have listened to my instincts, but I wanted him off the bat. He wasn't shaking or frail, he was just completely alert and ready to play. We met the father who had a curly coat, very handsome dog though. I asked about the mother several times, but the question was lost in conversation...and forgotten about (or ignored, perhaps).

She was a nice person, but I think that on our second visit to pick up Tucker when he was old enough to come home I should have asked to see the rest of the litter to compare sizes. I drove four hours (twice) to pick him up, paid $1100 for him, and really think I deserved an "oh, by the way, he might exceed 7 lbs" or anything of the sort.

I'll write her an email, sending a picture along, and see if I can, at least, enlighten her about how large her line might be carrying. I really should have asked how many litters she's bred, but she seemed fairly knowledgeable so I didn't think to ask it.

Wish me luck! I just have to find a nice way to get my point across without sounding thoroughly upset. Thanks for the advice!

I also ended up with a "Mutant Strain". Chewie is 15 pounds and 10 months old. I love him to death and wouldn't part with him. The breeder did tell me he wouldn't be a teacup and I said that was fine. I wanted a healthy, sturdy dog. I have 5 grandkids! The breeder told me he would be about 7 to 10 pounds. I am fine with his size but also ran into a problem,when I started looking for a playmate for him. I ended up with a Cockapoo that will be approximate in size and wonderful in temperment. I have had them before.
I would definately talk to your breeder and see if she will cut you a deal on another big puppy. Just like the other YT er's said , "It doesn't hurt to ask"! Good luck and give your big boy a big hug for me!

Good luck to you!! I hope you are able to work something out w/ your breeder. Never hurts to ask!

We bought 2 ..same parents... They look nothing alike the female has cotton coat 7 bls very dark color, small head, the guy 12lbs long legs, wire coat, very light color and large head. but very lovable and not aa mean bone in them. so good luck

I have also seen where the smallest of the litter grew to be the largest and visa versa. So it is very hard to judge completely what size they would grow to be honestly. I guess she just thought you saw him and liked him and took him home. He is really cute! There is just no guarantee what size they will grow up to be. As for the ears - you sometimes have to keep the hair off the ear - shave them - while they are teething. Sometimes even tape them during this time to help them stand. But he is cute - down ears or not.
T.

T - We had the groomer shave the tips of his ears when he was little, but without luck. It wasn't that big of a deal...you couldn't look at him and honestly think something was wrong with him...he's a cuddly furball with or without ears that stand. :) I have seen the runt of the litter turn out to be the largest, as well. I just figured since those other breeders were so confident that they could guess by the time they're ready to go to their homes, that all breeders would/should be able to do the same. Either way, she has the right to know that she has 18 lb offspring bouncing around out there...so any adjustments in breeding may be changed, if need be. :)

stellablu - Besides shaving, the ears would have needed tapping to. It is just so hard for them to go through teething - it takes a lot out of them and ears will flop. But if not supported when they need it (and not all pups will need taping) the muscle gets a fold in it and may never stand again. Like I said - he is veryyyyy cute - your pup - even with down ears. I have also know of people tapping the ears down on purpose, since they like this look too. :)

Size - some of us can estimate the finish size of our pups, but that is only with many years of breeders our own dogs and knowing the dogs we bred. It is anyones's guess when you have not seen a litter before from the same parents. And like I said - no breeder will guarantee the adult weight of their pups or shouldn't because it can change. Just like our own kids - we have no real idea their weight when grown - not unless you can read that crystal ball. LOL
But great idea to let the breeder know. I had one pup that grew to be 12 pounds as an adult - I knew he was going to be big, just looking at his paws, but was a surprise since mom was 4.75 pounds and sire was 5 pounds. I gave him away free to a friend of mine with 2 older kids (12 and 10). He was the perfect gift for them and now I think they live just for this dog. She brought him to work at the beginning of the year and you can tell how much he is loved. Yes, way out of standard, but had no clue when I did the breeding. Funny thing - all the others in the litter are 2 at 4 pounds and 1 at 3 pounds and then him at 12 pounds. He is a little chunky too, but cute. Go figure though! I am very careful with my breedings and he was the only stud I had at home then and I do not let them outside off the porch (second story up with closed off exit/entrance from yard). It just happens - the different sizes at times. You can do a repeat breeding too and get differerent sizes then than what you got before too. Crazy genetics. :D
T.

BTW, standard is "up to 7 lbs" 4-7 lbs may be the average, but it is not the standard.
Not that it really matters here, just thought I'd mention that.:)

Per AKC.....
 

We can be specific here......per AKC...




Yorkshire Terrier Breed Standard
Toy Group

General Appearance
That of a long-haired toy terrier whose blue and tan coat is parted on the face and from the base of the skull to the end of the tail and hangs evenly and quite straight down each side of body. The body is neat, compact and well proportioned. The dog's high head carriage and confident manner should give the appearance of vigor and self-importance.

Head
Small and rather flat on top, the skull not too prominent or round, the muzzle not too long, with the bite neither undershot nor overshot and teeth sound. Either scissors bite or level bite is acceptable. The nose is black. Eyes are medium in size and not too prominent; dark in color and sparkling with a sharp, intelligent expression. Eye rims are dark. Ears are small, V-shaped, carried erect and set not too far apart.

Body
Well proportioned and very compact. The back is rather short, the back line level, with height at shoulder the same as at the rump.

Legs and Feet
Forelegs should be straight, elbows neither in nor out. Hind legs straight when viewed from behind, but stifles are moderately bent when viewed from the sides. Feet are round with black toenails. Dewclaws, if any, are generally removed from the hind legs. Dewclaws on the forelegs may be removed.

Tail
Docked to a medium length and carried slightly higher than the level of the back.

Coat
Quality, texture and quantity of coat are of prime importance. Hair is glossy, fine and silky in texture. Coat on the body is moderately long and perfectly straight (not wavy). It may be trimmed to floor length to give ease of movement and a neater appearance, if desired. The fall on the head is long, tied with one bow in center of head or parted in the middle and tied with two bows. Hair on muzzle is very long. Hair should be trimmed short on tips of ears and may be trimmed on feet to give them a neat appearance.

Colors
Puppies are born black and tan and are normally darker in body color, showing an intermingling of black hair in the tan until they are matured. Color of hair on body and richness of tan on head and legs are of prime importance in adult dogs, to which the following color requirements apply:

Blue: Is a dark steel-blue, not a silver-blue and not mingled with fawn, bronzy or black hairs.

Tan: All tan hair is darker at the roots than in the middle, shading to still lighter tan at the tips. There should be no sooty or black hair intermingled with any of the tan.

Color on Body
The blue extends over the body from back of neck to root of tail. Hair on tail is a darker blue, especially at end of tail.

Headfall
A rich golden tan, deeper in color at sides of head, at ear roots and on the muzzle, with ears a deep rich tan. Tan color should not extend down on back of neck.

Chest and Legs
A bright, rich tan, not extending above the elbow on the forelegs nor above the stifle on the hind legs.

Weight
Must not exceed seven pounds.

Approved April 12, 1966


Feel free to edit this if you would like....

Not really sure what that was all about?:confused: Sorry if I somehow offended you...? I'm not really sure what you're expecting...'feel free to edit this?'

No offense taken...
 

Just what I said.......this may be written other places differently, and can be stated differently by others.....

We are saying the same thing......but, most of the time it is considered "the breed standard."

Its somantics.....is all.

I doesn't hurt to ask..........you may be surprised. Good luck!

I too would express my concerns to this breeder but then go to another breeder who can better suit your needs.

I believe you posted earlier in this thread that you started working with him to be around your little pets when he was seven weeks old? Is that when you brought him home? Just the fact that the breeder let you bring home such a young puppy doesn't show that she's very responsible. It sounds like he's a great dog but young puppies should stay with the rest of the litter a few more weeks even if Mom isn't feeding them.

This breeder really can't be blamed for his size if he was that young when you got him. As you already know the smallest can become the biggest and vice versa. The younger they are, the harder it is to predict it. I hope you let us know how the rest of the story turns out.

He was born November 6th, and I brought him home January 9th. I went to visit him twice before bringing him home. Once with my then boyfriend and daughter when he was five weeks old, second with one of my rats and daughter at about seven weeks old, third time was to pick-up. So, it was nine weeks, which isn't much more than seven.

I'll keep everyone updated.

WHAT!@#%* Is that even an option?

Not for anyone I know, or care to know. It's an option you hear about with puppy mills or completely insane breeders. I am quite sure it is still practiced, and quite often, out there. I remember my parents being friends with a dog breeder and in South Carolina at that time, they were quite casual about culling livestock, as well as breeding stock. She mentioned destroying puppies that were not meeting the color or disposition that she expected from the breed. My mom understood farm life, but found this lady's option completely repulsive. They ended their friendship quietly and never spoke with her again, both of my parents being animal lovers new that spaying/neutering that puppy was much more humane than ending their lives, for what...a few black hairs in the wrong place? I can't remember what breed it was (my parents bred papillons and beagles, one dedicated to each breed) and they socialized with other breeders for tips in breeding, conformation, and such. My parents are true animal lovers and just couldn't fathom this behavior coming from a person who truly cared for her dogs. If I remember correctly, this woman also bred Paso Finos like my dad and she had a horse put down because the mare failed to reproduce on a few tries.

I didn't mean to suggest it was a trait I'd expect from a breeder, but I would not be surprised to see it in the hobby/trade these days. :(