I just thought i was having a bad day . This just made me so sick now here i am crying bucket of tears this is just so awful is this really true.

There have been a lot of frank, honest and open discussions in the Breeder Talk forum. Graphic, even.

Breeding puts you face to face with some really awful decisions and I don't think Jeanie was out of line posting the question. The scenario she proposed was real life and she wanted opinions.

What would you do? Leave a mother who's giving birth to drive a puppy to the vet, or would you take them all with you to the vet or would you let it die on it's own? I don't blame the breeders here for not offering up their opinions, because in truth, there are no good answers unless you're a vet and you can administer a humane death.

I personally don't think that this thread was meant to upset anyone. I know that there are alot of crazy things in this crazy world that take place and some people just want other's opinions and answers. I replied back on page one with my honest answer and left it at that. The orignal poster didn't make me sick at all. The thought that people actually do this does.

:thumbup: :thumbup:

I am not a breeder but I have done rescue work. I remember the night a cat had her kittens and the babies were all mangled. Some were deformed and some were not. I had to wait for transport to take me to the Emergency vet. It was the longest 1/2 hour I have ever experienced. I would not have put them in the freezer. I have often wondered if I could have ended their life, would I do it. I have came to the conclusion that I will let the vet euthanize. Those that are quick to criticize Jeanie for her question remember these things do happen in real life when you are involved with animals.

I for one, did NOT think the poster was asking because she was considering this.. It was a question, and a question to something that I had heard of before also. Thats all.

That may be what a mother in the wild would do. But she doesn't have the resources we have. It's barbaric for breeders to do things like this when we have plenty of good resources at hand, that can be used in a humane manner. You can't expect to get any other response other than this when you ask about killing a pup in a freezer. How would you react if someone came on and talked about treating a premie or a newborn child in this manner (God forbid anyone would do this to any breathing living thing)? :thumbdown

The original poster may (and probably does) have the exact same emotions regarding this practice as the rest of us. I commend her on having the courage to bring it up for discussion. Many people don't think of things that could possibly go wrong when they breed their dogs, and not just yorkies. What would you do in situation when a vet wasn't readily available, and you had a newborn puppy that was obviously suffering, and would probably die on its own, but may suffer tremendously before then. I think the freezer is extreme, but really... would you want it to suffer for hours before you could get it to a vet to humanely euthanize it. I think everyone needs to stop and think about how they would feel in this situation. It is a personal, ethical issue that we each need to decide within our own morals, and not judge others for how they decide to handle the situation, as everyone and every situation is different.

Im not a breeder but I think is best for the vet to humanely euthanize.

Oh my...this is a HORRIBLE thought. :mad: I realize that the situation can occur. This is a frightning reality. I guess I am lucky in this sense and this is bad, buuuut...our vet, who mind you is a very close family friend, made the offer to me to actually possess "the shot," which, yes, I am aware is illegal if you are not liscensed to administer it. Let me stress, this is not something she doles out to every Tom Dick and Harry that walks through her doors. I told her no because if for some reason I had an inspection, how great would it be to have THAT sitting in the fridge! :rolleyes: :eek: She agreed and just told me that if that happened, to call and she would come regardless of time...again, long time friend of the family.
As luck would have it, my accross-the-street neighbor runs a local animal shelter. (Obvoiusly, we talk all of the time, we both love dogs.) So, when it was close to time for Trixie to whelp, there was one in HER fridge, as she is able to administer it.

I agree...I would hate to think anyone WOULD do this...but reality says that's just a wish...The substance of the post was hard to read...but it did make me think .....What if a puppy is truly suffering....what does a breeder do ?

IF I were a breeder I'm pretty sure I'd find a way to the vet ASAP and be humane....but man - just thinking about this is hard... and sad.

There may be circumstances where it would be a couple of days before you could get to a vet or a vet could get to you. Would you let it starve and suffer or take steps to hasten its death? And don't say it couldn't happen because it could.

Maybe the question should have been, How would you euthanize if you could not get it to a vet? Would you consider placing it in a freezer or would you use another means. The scenerio in the book was, if you could not get to a vet. Not simply this is a reccommended method of euthanization. You need to think outside the box here.

JeanieK:

I applaud you for asking. I'm sorry that so many jumped to defensive mode. It's my personal opinion that there are no stupid questions and that one doesn't learn unless they ask. I think the intent was just that, to learn from experienced breeders. Although none of us would ever consider this possibility, I too would be curious if this was actually something that breeders practice. It's appalling to think that it is, but it's better to be educated then not.

Kudos to JeanieK for asking instead of possibly following what she read in a book because she was afraid to ask. :thumbup:

Let me answer this. No reputable breeders do not do this.

No matter what, I am a pet owner 1st. But then again I researched for years, getting to know lines so I would not be looking at a host of problems. It is horrid to me to do something of that nature. I've read also that they say the puppy can't tell. Well that's crap. When they are with mom, they cry when the're cold, so they feel something.

On another note, if someone feels they must have a quetion like that answered, it would have been better served to ask their mentor. If they don't have one, then they need one if they are going to be breeding and have no clue to all the problems that are in back of the lines they are working with. Ask the breeder of your dog questions that will offend those here. Even I had to take a 2nd look at the question and I've been involved for almost 32 years. Personally I would have thought most would realize to take the puppy to a vet to be taken care of properly.

Besides the fact, it really needs to be autopsied. As a breeder knows, no puppy should die that we are not checking it out to see what the problem is or how else would we know how to breed, or not to breed if a dog is producing problems.

hear! hear! Tiggerwit!