"Well "everyone" seems to brag about CH in the background when selling puppies because it makes them worth something. It doesnt matter how far back they are or if there is only one. To say that someone has produced a show quality Yorkie and just doesn't want to show it just doesn't make sense, if that same person is bragging about the pedigree that was earned by someone else.

Personally, those that don't want to spend the extra time and money involved on showing a quality puppy they've produced is not spending the time and money needed to run the best breeding program they can. Now I'm not saying show every puppy you produce, but IF you produce something that's 'ring worthy' for lack of a better term."


BINGO!
How is it possible to have a good breeding program w/o the proper tools to guide it? Vet's advice and guidance? (well, that makes for healthy reproduction and delivery, but nothing more) To produce healthy, sound puppies that not only resembles a Yorkie, but goes one step further and FITS the Yorkie by definition you need so much more.

Irene~You know I respect you, but IMO, this statement is absurd. This would include me. I have no problem spending any amount of money needed to do what I think is best for our program...including the pretty penny I am sure I am about to fork out to prove it other places. But the idea that I don't spend the time and money needed to run the best breeding program that I can is ridiculous. :( Please, if your travels every bring you close to me, drop by and I would be happy to convince you otherwise.
(I am not saying that what you say doesn't apply to anyone at all, but I certainly don't feel it applies to me.) :(

Alas, I am wearing myself out over and over again saying the same thing, as are you guys. I'm just going to leave it alone now because it is really frustrating trying to reason with a group of people who insist on acting as if those who do not follow their lead with their programs are inferior. Good luck in the ring you guys. Hope you guys make all the wonderful friends you can....the rest of us are obviously not good enough to be given the time of day by someone who "shows."
BTW...you are really "showing" alot here.

ilk...
 

"...but when you have 10 or 20 dogs competing with equal "total" packages, bottom line, it boils down to a beauty contest."


Yeah, okay but only in the sense that Mrs. Universe has a set peramiter that she must adhere too and toss in strict muscle tone and conformation to boot.
Just because there are more dogs in the ring doesn't mean the judge is going to put up the most beautiful (that's too opinionated). He has to look at the factual. And how does he/she place the top 4 or 5? With over 20 dogs in the ring? Number 1-adheres closest to the standard; Number 2-adheres to standard, but his movement is slightly choppy; Number 3-adheres beautifully to the standard and would've been first, but doesn't have an attitude the day of the show becoming of a Yorkie (remember they view the whole package); Number 4-adheres to the standard but upon coming and going is considered to be out at the elbows.; Number 5-adheres to the standard and while he has the best coat of the bunch is lacking conditioning on the frame (a dog to watch in future rings).

Just an idea. I understand what you're saying and just agree to disagree. I would see (if interested) about getting back ringside and watching in person again just what takes place. Really take a good look at a sizeable class and you'll see what my example demonstrates. While some people find that to be stupid, those are the people no one wants to mentor.

holy cow
 

what is the war over this time i want to join lmao ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ah hah ha ha hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Misty,

So if you produced a show quality puppy you would not want to show? I find that hard to believe. I better not ever see you in the ring or I wont' let you live it down..lolol.

Of course if you don't have somethign show quality then you don't show it. The pups are few and far between. Foster may never finish as a CH. I bet he won't but darn it he's closer than my other pups have been thus far.

It may be 10 15 years that I'll have something else..

And I think that a lot of people on here would say that you are to opinionated if I misspelled that sorry I am not a dictionary.
This started out as a question not a war so why not end it now.

Now Juanita, why end 128 posts of blood-pressure raising fun! We can get our exercise without getting out of our chairs (blowing hot air).

later
 

ok now it is getting funny . lol.

Oh, I do see your point in your aspect of wanting to enter him. Right now, no, I don't have a show quality pup. (Actually, right now, we don't have any pups...cept Kasey.) Course, I have not had many litters to chose from, now have I? That's what we're working towards, just like you have been doing. I don't really know what my motivations may be when we get there. But, say we had one born tomorrow...I don't feel it would be absolutely neccessary to put it in the ring to complete his being "quality." Right now, I honestly don't have the time...money is not an issue, but time is. Much like yourself, I have an outside job. (Plus a 5 year old.) Could I pay to have some help like you? Yes, but that is not my desire. We have both done what we feel is best. Might showing be an option in the future for me? Yes, but right now, I am very comfortable where we are and the direction we are moving.

I don't know, I guess it is just the way you look at it. I have 6 people waiting for pups. I am comfortable with them having them...they'll be in good homes. I am not going to be disappointed if they go to loving homes rather than a ring. I do not feel the need to "prove" anything or "impress" others. I don't know. I enjoy shows, but I just have no desire to pursue that right now. Although Agility on the other hand...that's another story...

It never ending with some! :rolleyes:

I'm opinionated AND educated! Sorry you only saw one side. I thought I was conversing w/ like minded individuals.

*grr*

:thumbs up


:yorkietal

I don't know who accused you of being uneducated...sorry if you thought that was me...far from it. Just very different in opinoins.

So my post wasn't directed at you. I'm sorry you felt that it was. When I get on my missions to change the world of dog breeding I think of puppyfind and the pages and pages of Yorkie puppies being produced for money.

Yes, we can agree to disagree, for lack of a better term. It's not that I disagree with what you've said, I simply have a different take on it.
<To say that someone has produced a show quality Yorkie and just doesn't want to show it just doesn't make sense, if that same person is bragging about the pedigree that was earned by someone else.>
It may not make sense to you, but it's an individuals choice, for whatever reason. But in the same breath now you add, if that same person is bragging about the pedigree. Now, that's a whole different ball game and changes your point completely. My question now is, are you saying it only makes sense not to show if the person is bragging about something they didn't earn? Then is it OK for a show breeder to brag about their champions line if they were not the ones who earned those titles by the predecessors? Just food for thought!

I'm talking in general: If I had a ring worthy yorkie, and I'm not saying I do or I don't, I would do what was needed and show him, if that's what I wanted to do. But, if I choose not to show him, that's my choice because of A) don't have the extra time required to prepare for the ring; B) don't have the money required to follow the ring circuit; C) don't care for the politics; and or D) it's none of your business why I choose to or not to show. What I'm saying is that it is an individuals choice. It doesn't have to make sense.

Laura
 

Laura..I missed your response.
I do NOT feel a breeder has to show in order to have quality Yorkies. I bred for many years without showing. In the UK breeders are respected for the dogs they produce, not the titles they win. You may breed quality dogs and never step in the ring and be well respected and be a top breeder..not so here in the USA.

About 15 yrs ago I was challenged at ring side to produce a prospect, show it and finish it IF I could...so I did, I knew I had been producing good quality dogs, but others wanted me to prove it, so I did. THEN I decided to do it again, you get bit.

I think a breeder must use the standard as a guide..buy champion-stud service when needed, or buy a champion stud. Keep good dogs from these breedings, buy quality bitches, go to shows, you do not HAVE to enter, but that is where learn to breed quality dogs IMO.
I am having second thoughts about showing Kate..my heart is not in it today. I have paid my dues and do not care if anyone thinks I am less of a breeder if I do not show again..

I got ya my dear! You are my DQ accomplice...we know each other better than that by now! ;) (You've seen my point in the past when no one else has. :) ) I know how passionate you are and you know how passionate I am when feeling challenged. No harm done either way. :D

I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore but I can't seem to help myself. I just have one thing to say. I"ve spent my time searching out websites (it's not the same as face to face but the best I can do right now) anyway I looked at soooo many websites and what I came up with is I found yorkies that weren't so pretty and I found yorkies that were beautiful www.FantasyYorkies.com is one of the sites I fell in love with. Anyway what I"m getting at is I found some that showed and some that didn't. What I did find is that all the ones that were of quality were from people that put ALOT into their program..it showed through their dogs..some of those showed and some didn't but they all had one thing in common. They put their all into their breeding program and thats what IS important. Do I feel different about showing from these threads..you betcha...but do I feel I have to show..no...will I ever..i don't know. Crowds make me nervous and being center of attention makes me even more nervous. I would have to hire a handler if I did. Me honestly..i would prefer doing something I'd enjoy more which would be agility. Anyway I too would like for this to end. I'm tired of fighting and criticizing and getting criticized. I know there are alot of you on here that know sooo much more and I"m glad for that because it gives me a place to learn and thats what these threads are all about.
K9trainer I do think you know what you are talking about I just wish you wouldn't push it on us that don't feel the same. I would be happy to hear your side if you wouldn't criticize mine. I don't agree with what you are saying but that doesn't mean that I feel you are uneducated when it comes to yorkies. I just think you bully too much. That is the only problem I had with you. You put me on the defense and tried to shove your ways down my throat. But to your defense I probably did the same thing to you.
Anyway Group hug lol

<My question now is, are you saying it only makes sense not to show if the person is bragging about something they didn't earn? Then is it OK for a show breeder to brag about their champions line if they were not the ones who earned those titles by the predecessors? Just food for thought! >

I am saying that some people like to brag about the CH in their pedigrees (look at puppyfind) and don't know a darn thing about the line but use the word Champion as a selling point. I see those as hypocrites to be honest, because they are also the ones that say..oh showing is ridiculous and means nothing. When infact it does mean something because they use 'Ch lines' as a marketing ploy. And like to brag about it when it's convenient. But when it's not, then showing and championing is nonsense.

I hope you don't take what I said personally.

<Anyway Group hug lol>

Absotutley~~ :D :p :p

peds
 

Irene, what are your thoughts on Kate...

Her grandparents were both champions, from champions, infact her grandmother was from an all champion sire and dam ped for 3 generations. Kate's grandsire was number one in 2000...Kate's sire and dam were not finished...
If I do not finish Kate and decide to breed her AND I do not breed her to a champion, then IMO her pedigree turns into a excellent pet pedigree, but not a champion pedigree. Some would say I am too hard on breeders...but if a pups parents and grandparents are not finished, then it is a pet pedigree I feel. I am not predjustice against a pet pedigrees..if I do not get my act together, any future pups from her, if I decide to breed her will have one!LOL

Pat,
I think Kate's beautiful you know that. Why are you asking me about Kate and her pedigree? Are you trying to prove a point or am I just misinterpreting your post? I am no pedigree expert..lol. It sounds good to me and I wish you all the best with whatever you decide :)

Hugs,
Irene

If you decide to breed Kate....PUT ME ON THE WAITING LIST NOW ~! I have NO issues with Pet Pedigrees... :p

KATE is GORGEOUS :D anyone wants to see her ....go to the SHOW Section

Okay here is goes, lol! When I first thought about breeding the quality of the yorkies I had were okay, but nothing to write home about.. Once I decided that I wanted to only breed to produce something to show everything changed for me.. My hobby has become studying pedigrees and looking at the many different types of yorkie each line produces.. I can remember back to when I had my first couple of litters I was excited about the puppies, but nothing like I am now! I feel the quality of my yorkies has changed and for the better.. Now when I decide to breed for a litter I am unbelievably excited beyond belief! I cannot wait for the puppies to be born and I cannot wait to see the quality they mature into as adults! I will gladly admit when I first started breeding I did not think I would have or be able to have anything showable.. But I feel I have worked very hard and I am very excited as to the possibilities in the future..

Irene I also have wondered the same thing.. I have never been able to understand when someone says my line, but yet all the lines started somewhere else.. But I guess we all have to start somewhere and I suppose once we have championed a yorkie or two and started producing our own show prospects I suppose we will be saying the same thing.. :p

You can add me to that list as well!! :D Kate is gorgeous..

No, I don't take it personally, I was just asking the question as food for thought. Not that's what I think or do.

little do you know lol
 

I am more educated then you are and I dont have to pass your test to proove it either.

absolutely not
 

you and your dogs are perfect and I dont think that you will have any issues. I know my opinion dont count with some people , but your dogs are butiful and I know and agree that you do not have to show to have quality dogs. You would probly be the best breeder I have met.

Cool! There is no right or wrong answer really. We all need to take what others say about is with a grain of salt as long as we are doing what we feel comfortable doing.

Why Breed?
 

Okay I feel the need to add alittle to my previous post..

I do NOT feel that someone has to show in order to breed.. That is an option that is entirely up to the person and NO one else! I believe that as long as a breeder loves their dogs and gives them a wonderful home is the most important thing! Everything else falls behind that.. I myself breed to have a show prospect, but that is me.. That does NOT mean that is what I think is the only right and reputable way to be a breeder! We have different ideas of why we breed and like I mentioned the most important aspect of breeding is the care of the animals!