|
I think the experienced breeders are like our Mothers. They want us to avoid the same mistakes that they made. But like all of human nature we all insist on making our own mistakes. :teethysmi Good thread, everyone is being very respectful. :good job: |
The only reason I am breeding is because I want to make a difference as a breeder for Yorkies. I love this breed sooo much and it makes me soo sad to see they have become so popular it's out of control. That means the byb and millers jump on the make easy money band wagon. They breed anything for money. I just read in the AKC Gazette that there were 43,527 Yorkies registered with the AKC in 2004 and in 2005 it jumped to 47,238. That' almost 50 thousand Yorkies just registered by the AKC in 1 year. AKC litter registration stats for 2004 were 28,326 and jumped to 29,919 in 2005. That's just litters of puppies registered by the AKC. Out of that 29,919 4 litters were mind. Now, keep in mind that doesn't cound UKC, ACA APR CKC or any other registry. My reason to breed is to make a difference, I want to set an example for other breeders and those considering breeding. I have set the standards in my breeding program high. And I hold myself accountable to them. My main concern is health. I use a reproduction specialist to evaluate my foundation. He tells me what tests I need to do, we are constanty working together to ensure I have health first, not only in my foundtation but also my puppies. Some THINK because I'm dumb and don't have experience. Well it's really because he is an expert when it comes to genetics, reproduction. Because I breeding involves genetics and reproduction I want to use a reproduction specialist involved in my program. IMO it would be dumb not to use one. Could a regular vet take care of my foundation..Of course, but for me and my objectives for breeding that would be considered settling. I feel the same way about tails, dews, vaccs, I could administer shots myself. I used to do it when i worked at the APL. But again, I would be settling and not living up to the standards I set for my breeding program. I dont' want to settle for that, I feel that's the best I can do for my program is have a specialist involved. Another thing that bothers me as a breeder is when I see prices of puppies that are not warranted. I want to provide as much as I can without charging more because of it. Infact, I have lowered my prices this year on my puppies and started incorprating Spaying and neutering and blood panels and an additonal year on my guarantee. This is not a business for me but something I enjoy and am passionate about. I do not tally my expenses because that's what they are an expense..lolol. I know I lose money i just dont' want to see how much..I see a desparate need for good hearted honest responsible ethical breeders becuse there are NOT many around. Showing is also on my to do list for breeding. I want to the be whole ball of wax as a breeder of Yorkies and Biewers, fair, honest, ethical, and hopefully a breeder of champions (no just and exhibitor) someday on top of all this. My mission is to change the world as far as Yorkie and Biewer breeders go, but the only thing I can control is my mouth and my breeding program. So between the 2 of those I hope to get the message out to folks looking for pets dont' settle for less than what I offer in my program or my objectives for breeding. And my standards aren't set, they are always being moved up higher and higher. Maybe that will force breeders into being ethical, honest, and fair. So in nutshell, that's why I breed. :D |
If I've offended i'm sorry but i've been offended every single time I hear someone say if your not a show dog breeder then your nothing but a backyard breeder. I also get offended at this. But, even if I am called a back yard breeder, I am doing all my research and etc. I have no interest at all in showing altho I have a dog thatcould potentially produce show quality pups. I think I will be called a "living room breeder" because my hubby says I have turned our main living room into a dog house. LOL |
I think I will be called a "living room breeder" because my hubby says I have turned our main living room into a dog house. LOL I really like that sugars mom!! |
LOL SO do I !! |
If you want your kids to see an animal giving birth you could try fostering for a rescue organization. I am not trying to offend you by saying this. You would get lots of experience if you did foster. When I worked with rescue I had mum's that had c-sections, prolapsed uterus and many other life threatening situations. You have babies that are paralyzed and have to be euthanized. You see vet bills that are tremendous. It really opens your eyes to what is involved. After all the things I have seen I do not want to breed. I know some people in rescue look down on people who do breed. I do not. You must know what you are doing before you get into breeding. I think if a person can find a good mentor and be involved in their breeding program for a long period of time before they start their own breeding. |
IF you're not going to breed her... I thought this might be good food for thought for you! Please give it a moment and pay particular attention to the last two paragraphs. This vet not only states facts, but also offers alternative solutions! :thumbup: http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html :yorkietal |
I think some of you are confused by the "reason" people show, and how they treat their dogs. Yes, there are those that show for their ego and mistreat the animals but that is not the norm. Most show dogs are treated well and retired after a healthy time involved in breeding programs. Some are always treated as pets and others become pets after they have made their contribution. Reputable breeders (whether they are hobby or more experienced) "show" their dogs because their purspose for breeding is to promote the high standards of the breed. If breeders didn't do this the breed would get more diluted with poor breeding and they would all start to look like the mutts that some backyard breeders come up with. Sorry if that offends anyone but if you consider yourself a backyard breeder you need to rethink what you are doing. There are already enough dogs around, why breed if you don't want dogs that look and act like the breed they are supposed to BE. There is a HUGE difference between a BYB and a hobby breeder. Please strive for the best with these little animals. This is NOT about the individuals involved, it's about this wonderful breed and what you are contributing. |
Hey, Shelbysmom... I understand what you are saying and I actually agree, however... showing a dog under any kennel club organization doesn't guarantee that those dogs are "worthy" of producing. Those dogs need to be presented under different judges and DO WELL in the ring before it should be bred. There are PLENTY of people who actually spend the money to show and don't do well and I've seen dogs out there that are better from "back yard" breeders than those. Not to say back yard breeders should be encouraged by any means, but showing your dog isn't always enough. The judges need to agree that any particular dog conforms to standard. ps You can have a genetically defunt dog (that isn't displaying any symptoms) that shows well and STILL shouldn't be bred. Just my two cents! Being educated makes for better decisions in life! |
Quote:
Anyone that is considered a Reputable experienced breeder or a hobby breeder has done and is doing the research that is required to continue with a good breeding program. I don't think that ONLY champions should be used to breed. These breeders have many top quality dogs from good lines that can be used for breeding even though they never walk in the ring. A good breeder knows what to look for when considering who to keep for breeding and showing and who to sell as pet quality. Pet quality dogs should not be used for breeding and that is what a lot of backyard breeders do. |
I admit I am big on Training and agility and I'm not for showing. But if thats what you want to do do it. I'm happy your doing something you love. What bothers me is there are some show breeders out there that think they should be the only ones breeding. They think they are the only ones experienced enough..What gets me is do you really think those type of breeders are breeding dogs so they can offer to the world good quality pups? NO they aren't..they are breeding dogs so they can hopefully get that next champion and then they turn around and sell what they think aren't worth keeping. I feel that I breed so I can produce good sound quality pups because I LOVE this breed as well as all animals and I want to offer to the world a chance to enjoy what I love ...a pet to love. I don't have to show to know what the standard is. I don't have to show to know how to care for an animal. I don't have to show to provide quality pups. What I do have to do..is learn..learn all i can about the breed..about breeding..about caring for an animal to keep it healthy..to care for it when its not..ect..ect.. And I too would be a living room breeder lol.. |
I could never afford a Yorkie from a Show breeder, they want wayyyyyyyyyyy to much, so I will stick to you living room breeders :thumbup: |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
A show breeder is not a TYPE of breeder, it is what some breeders DO with the dogs they have. A true "living room breeder"may save you money on your original purchase but you could lose money in the long run if you buy from someone who doesn't make health and quality their priority. If they make those things a priority, they are NOT living room breeders or BYB, they are hobby breeders. Hobby breeders have some nice dogs for very fair prices. http://www.shilohshepherds.com/puppy...erMatrixv4.htm |
I take it your Yorkies are show dogs? I do know what a show dog is LOL I'm blonde, but c'mon hehehehe I bet some very good Yorkies have come from living room breeders! My Kloey is one of them, You don't have to pay $1500 -$3000 to get a healthy dog, I'm sure there has been cases where show dogs have had problems with health issues. |
Tashasmom--- No, you don't HAVE TO show to feel you are knowledgeable about the breed in order TO breed. The importance of showing under a judge (in ANY sport: Conformation; Obedience; Agility...even if you had a Yorkie that was a demo dog for Schutzhund!) is that you are relying on the JUDGES to let you know and the spectators know that YOU do in fact know your stuff because you are ready to present that in front of the "world" and multiple judges. THEY are the authority figure to let you know that your feeling of being knowledgeable and ready to breed are valid. You may produce what you think is correct is type and is healthy, but everyone has their own "type" and fits the standard loosely at best but is quite healthy. So, by showing in any sport under MULTIPLE judges, you are just proving to those around you; yourself; and perspective buyers that you do indeed know what your doing and can prove it. That's what the standard was handed to judges for and multiple sports created. Conformation isn't for everyone and I ABSOLUTELY agree that you can show off what you know and are capable of benefiting the breed by showing in a sport more to your liking. These are terriers and they're supposed to be diverse. They're toys second!! :yeahthat: |
Quote:
As the link shows the catagory of breeders include everything from BYB, puppymills, commerical, hobby and reputable experienced breeders. All of them could show if they wanted to. And yes, even dogs that have been shown (and won) could have health issues. Judges can't tell what is going on under a coat. But the best place to get a pup is from someone that has researched and knows their dog and their lines. That person can be doing this out of their living room, they can show the dogs or not. Anything can happen but I was willing to pay for experience and wisdom so I paid a lot for my pet quality dog. |
Where does one go to get more information on their dogs pedigree. All I have are the names of the dam and sire? Can you get that information from the AKC, or do I need to go back to the breeder? |
Hmm... "Judges can't tell what is going on under a coat." A good judge can! They're few and far between, but I've seen a judge move a dog back or even excuse it for having a sore on the shoulder under all that hair. A good judge will really give each dog a GOOD once over before even asking it to move for him. (the bigger the class, the hotter/colder the temp. the less inclined many judges are to do their job well. Get to know who the "good" judges are and make sure you show under them at least once!) ps, not all judges are bad, but they're all human. That's why it's important to get in the ring(s) more than once before beginning a breeding program yourself-if for nothing else but for yourself. For the experience of an "expert" to tell you that you've got a good eye and are more than capable of encouraging progress within the breed. |
Quote:
You can order the pedigree papers form AKC. All you need is your furbabies AKC number and you can get The Three Generation AKC- Certified Pedigree. It's around $20.00, very worth having. I do not Breed, but I do have all my furbabies generation papers. :) |
We could go back and forth all day long on this. I agree with some of what you are saying and some I do not. I respect you for backing up what you beleive in just as I ask for respect for backing up what I beleive. I'm not going to be so close minded to say you will never change my mind about showing..cause I could. I just know that it is of no importance to me what a Judge thinks of my dogs. What is important to me is that I know I am producing quality pups..and it's important to me that the people that purchase pups from me feel the same. I have nothing more to say on this matter. I come here to learn and to help those that need it. I hope to make a few friends along the way.. |
TashasMom QUOTING YOU -- If I've offended i'm sorry but i've been offended every single time I hear someone say if your not a show dog breeder then your nothing but a backyard breeder. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Has anyone really ever said this? I don't think any of us feel this way. I do think that most serious breeders do their very best (rightfully so) to produce the highest standard, best puppies they can. And, are delighted when some of their puppies are show quality and do well in that area. But - high quality show dogs (of any breed) are few and far between and more often than not - the best breeders end up with few high quality show dogs and many more wonderful pet quality little pups. But, believe me, even the pet quality pups that come from serious, knowledgeable, experienced breeders are a step above what many people produce. I, personally, don't want a show quality puppy. First of all - I can't afford to pay for a puppy of that quality, and second (even more importantly), I wouldn't show it or breed it, and I think this would be unfortunate. So - because I only want a pet - a pet quality Yorkie is the right dog for me. With that being said, I am still entitled to a little pup that is a good representative of the Yorkie breed. I think my little pup is a great looking little Yorkie - he's very handsome, and I am totally happy with him - but I am fast learning that he is going to be a couple pounds larger than many Yorkis are........ fun fun!! Nevertheless, I am positive that no one will every say, "Are you sure that's a Yorkie." He's a Yorkie all the way through!! Carol Jean |
Snow wa..I respect your wisdom. You seem to know alot about alot of things. It's not just me that feels this way. I'm not the only one on here that said I was offended. And yes it is said all over this site and every other site. If you are a good breeder than you will show your dogs. If you'd like I will search the web and put up post after post that confirms this. Either way Carol I think you are one of the sweetest on here and I"ve learned alot from you. I hope I don't upset you by this post and I hope to have future conversations with you. One more thing. I'm not so much offended as unnerved by it. I don't know these people so therefore it can't actually hurt me. |
"Quality pups" / Quality Yorkies... "We could go back and forth all day long on this. I agree with some of what you are saying and some I do not. I respect you for backing up what you beleive in just as I ask for respect for backing up what I beleive. I'm not going to be so close minded to say you will never change my mind about showing..cause I could. I just know that it is of no importance to me what a Judge thinks of my dogs. What is important to me is that I know I am producing quality pups..and it's important to me that the people that purchase pups from me feel the same. I have nothing more to say on this matter. I come here to learn and to help those that need it. I hope to make a few friends along the way.." I hope you aren't talking to me? If so, my only arguement would be (and I do respect your opinions, I just don't need to like it. And because of that, I should probably keep my mouth shut! ...will do.) Closing words: You may be producing quality pups...just not quality Yorkies. :number1ri - if you call yourself a breeder and an ethical one that is producing not just quality pups, but quality Yorkies, you should be able to make it to a ring-any ring (that's why they were created) at least once or twice to say truely that you are producing QUALITY YORKIES. If not, then all you are most likely producing are just like you said, "quality pups". |
At least your honest...and that speaks volumes. If you do breed and don't already hate me! Let me know, I've got people that will be looking for good puppies in about a year. |
Quote:
Either way. Before this post I liked you and after this post I will still like you..I can forgive any mean statement once. |
All I can say is -- "Oh, for heaven's sake!!!!!" I think some of us are taking this forum way tooooooooo seriously. And - are too afraid of getting our feelings hurt or are afraid of offending someone else!!!! We are not solving the world's problems here. We are just hopping aboard to give our two-cents worth on different subjects....even though, at times, they are only worth a penny - right? I'm sure at times, mine might be worth less than that. (In fact, I'm positive they are - people have told me so.) I definitely am not "the sweetest person in the world." And, no one ever has to worry about offending me. If I know anything - it is that you are as entitled to your opinions every bit as much as I am to mine. And, please don't let any of my rambling ever offend any of you. Please feel free to get back on and tell me to go fly a kite! There are certain topics that are always controversial...and always will be. And, this is certainly is one of them. I am sure that those of us who have been on YT for a while have seen many topics ranted and raved about over and over again. My advise is (and I certainly hope everyone agrees) -- if you have an opinion about something - don't worry about getting your feelings hurt - and don't worry about offending anyone - just hop aboard and say what you think!!!!! And, if anything bothers you or offends you - just skip it - and going onto something different and more interesting. I have done this many times myself. Carol Jean |
well for the love of pete..my feelings weren't hurt i was trying to be funny. I guess it's one of those post that needed to be heard not read.. Anyway..your right..this is silly. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:00 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use