shows
 

For what is it worth..when a person says a dog show is nothing more then a "Beauty Contest"..they are revealing how little they know about the sport of competing, dog people and dogs in general.

If it looks like a duck walks like a duck quacks like a duck..its probably a duck.

lol
 

:) omg you are so funny lol lol lol lol lol lol

For those of you who really care-
 

"And I am sure that your yorkies are the best to you but that dont meen you should breed your dogs either , I dont know you And I have never seen your dogs but by your judgementle attitude I can already tell you pups wouldnt be worth anything to me. I am not a judgemenle person but when it comes to standing up for myself and what I beleive I am going to do it."

No, I do not think Little Nemo is the best and should be BRED because of it. Never once did I say that. My "judgementle" (nice sp. by the way-it's judgmental, no e.) attitude is what steers me to well bred dogs. And if you don't want a Yorkie from an educated/experienced breeder of well bred Yorkies, then that's your opinion and options are abound for that. Not everyone can be perfect (for every standard), but that shouldn't stop one from trying! And since I DON'T call myself a breeder, it's good thing you'll never come knocking at my door.

"So Yorkiek9trainer are you saying your little Nemo should not have been bred because he is not well bred. Some of us would never have a Yorkie if we were to wait for the ultimate Yorkie. I know when I was looking for a Yorkie we were being quoted $3000 for a Yorkie"

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Thank God for Little Nemo and we're elated to have him. If this cycle of byb or puppy mills never even began from the beginning we wouldn't have to settle for this. I QUITE UNDERSTAND the necc. of having a VARIETY of Yorkies from a variety of kennels and places and DO see the importance of it along w/ genetics (which people don't care nearly enough about-this is where we get out phenotypes and our bases for temperment and health), I just wish from the beginning people who truely loved the breed really watched what they were producing more closely and we never would have been in this situation. Now that we ARE, I can see the necc. for breeders such as Nemo's and am thankful he is here, but that doesn't stop me from wishing breeding mistakes had never taken place to begin w/. $hit happens and we have Nemo for it and dogs like him that are just as perfect as can be (in health and temperment) and just aren't well bred purebreds and that doesn't make them any lesser of a dog. And $3000 for a Yorkie is OUTRAGEOUS and I wouldn't touch it w/ a ten foot pole! Where are you looking?!? On-line breeders who sell eight different toy breeds?? I can give you any number of breeders who are considered at the top of their game in the breed rings and you won't be charged this amount of money for a " " Yorkie! :thumbdown

One last commentary (I promise, unless I'm poked again) is that my maturity shouldn't be under scrutiny just because someone is frustrated and needs a rebut opinion. If anything I love this breed for what it is and what it used to be, I show this breed and I don't breed this breed. And I'll I've shared are my opinions and experiences and that's exactly what this board is all about. Thank You.
(it's interesting how the very people question my maturity have to come in w/ a quip: "Miss Trainer." at the end. Nice.) :rolleyes:

what do you mean.
 

you seem to be getting good at moching people and China's parents where show dogs winners at that so you are telling me that because China was not a show dog that my callie is not of good quality . i think you are so wrong for that.
I am sorry you feel that way and moching me wont get you anywhere.

Thank you all for pointing out how little you think I know. That was so kind of you. I always knew dog people were a special breed. I know much more about it than you think and I stand by my convictions. Bottom line, it's a beauty contest.

You have bored me long enough. I think i'll go find a more interesting thread to read.

OK, I just have to say that the opinion that you have to show in order to be the best breeder possible is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life! I literally spit Diet Pepsi on my pc reading this thread...more than once! You do not have to show in order to produce quality, breed standard dogs. When you step into a ring, it does not clue you in as to the quality and standard closeness of your dog--it shows the quality and standard closeness of your dog compared to other dogs. Yes, I understand in the show world, your ideal would be to have the "best" product when all is said and done. But you're talking about one person, one dog out of how many?
Furthermore, are there people breeding out there, poor quality, heath defect ridden Yorkies? Yes, there probably are. But there are also people breeding dogs that are not as "perfect" as those in the show ring, but who are constantly trying to "improve" their line. Do I think the dogs I breed are comparable to the ones produced by 30+ year show veterans? No, I don't. But I am striving to get there. Hopefully in 30+ years I will make it. Do you think as a new breeder I could convince the owners of the #1 and #2 dog in the country to let me have them and breed them to get the "perfect dog?" Yeah, right.
Getting a dog that will win in the ring is something you stive for...your ultimate goal. How do you get there? You develope a line that you can claim as your own. How do you do that? By taking good breed quality dogs and breeding them. Selecting two good quality specimins, producing something better from them, and then continuing to add and progress and better what you are getting.
But to say you "have to show" to produce a high quality representation of the breed is ridiculous! Your dog is not neccessarily judge just on its own representation...the overall outcome is who's representation is THE best. Comparing your dog to someone elses does NOT make or break you as a breeder.

To BamaFan" "
 

Never did I say that your dog has to PLACE OR has to WIN it's class. Simply show it. At a show you will meet people that are willing to mentor you and help you out. Maybe even give you a discount on a puppy or two to encourage you in the right direction w/ your breeding line. If you have the cajones to just get out there a handful of times, even if you know you don't have top dog, that speaks volumes of your dedication to not only your dog and your goals, but the breed as a whole and wanting to be a part of it's future to conform to standard and creat a well bred, purebred Yorkie.
You said it yourself: "Getting a dog that will win in the ring is something you stive for...your ultimate goal." And that's exactly what I said. You just have to show. Not necc. do well. Showing teaches you and helps one grow within the breed. Its one of the best places to start to become an ethical breeder!


I hope you didn't get the Diet Pepsi in the keyboard! :p

now your good
 

i couldnt have said it better myself now i will leave this up to you cause you are good.

To yorkiek9trainer
 

First off, I really am not trying to argue with you, more like understand your opinion. And, I am not trying to put down those who do show. You say go to a show to meet people to mentor me. I have mentors, one who has shown in the past. But I did not meet them at a show. Please tell me, what would stepping in a ring prove? That I have guts? That I'm brave? That I did it to prove a point to everyone that I am proud of what I am capable of and what I have produced? I am sorry, but I fail to see how these things are going to better the quality of my dogs.

"Comparing your dog to someone elses does NOT make or break you as a breeder."

PS- You shouldn't be comparing your dog to any other dog in the ring or outside as far as determining a dogs worth for breeding anyway. If you showed, you'd know this. It's about your dog and how it fits the standard. If there is a dog in the ring w/ you and he/she fits the standard better than your dog that day, THAT dog places higher than your dog. It's comparing the standard to your dog, not dog to dog.
Please, please, please remember that. More people need to get out and really experience this breed and make educated opinions on that. There is so much more to Yorkies than just being a "lap dog". In fact they excel at being more than that which is one of it's most unique qualities being stuck in the Toy Group!

Finally something written worth reading. I among many on here would like to thank you for saying what we've been trying to say all along.
I think it's time we lay this thread to rest..its serving no purpose at this time anyway. All was said and some fun was had out of it. Not that you all can't keep it going..but i'm done..thanks for the debate and the fun and also for opening up my eyes to other views and ideas.

Well I feel when a Yorkie is shown and wins it's not only matter of opinion any longer. The title speaks for it's self. It was judged against other good examples of the breed but for whatever reason, the winner had one up on the rest. So that's how you can actually measure quality based on the standard. As a breeder I want to make sure it's not my opinion that my Yorkies are nice. I'd like to back that up with some winnings. That's all. The question is will I?..lololol

Ha ha..no, I didn't ge tthe Pepsi on the keyboard. My aim has improved over time. 1) I have shown before...surprised? Not Yorkies, mind you, but Pekes. I was a teenager...and nothing large scale, I can assure you. But in any case, I understand the logic behind it.
2) I realize that your dog wins based on how well it represents the standard when COMPARED to how well the others represent it. You don't have to show to realize that...heck, even my husband knows that and he just watches it on TV to see the Beagles. :rolleyes:
If I were to show, which I would LOVE to do eventually, and broaden my program to what I would consider a "show program" (my words only) I would do so only if I could devote my every hour to it. Meaning, no outside job, no young children, ability to drop everything. (Granted, this is only what I would do, me myself and I.) Right now, that is not a possibility for me. I have to work. I have a 5-year old. However, I am working closely with 2 Yorkie breeders, 1 breeder of Shih-Tzus and a vet. Not to mention anything else I do to further educate myself. I worked with them long before I ever began looking for my own stock. When I started, I didn't think showing was something I wanted to pursue, now...my mind has changed somewhat.
My point is, I am no where near even thinking about stepping in a ring, if that is the road I eventually take, but I have started small and am continuously working to make my line better. I personally feel that is what is best for me...I would not dream of having any more than our 4 right now and rushing into something at this point. But I feel I am doing well and that there are ways to go about doing this the "right way" without stepping in the ring. Again, I ask you, what would I be proving? My dedication? I think actions and what is produced speaks alot more highly that stepping in to compete to prove you have guts.

"Again, I ask you, what would I be proving? My dedication? I think actions and what is produced speaks alot more highly that stepping in to compete to prove you have guts."

Stepping into or near a ring proves to potential buyers (even pet homes show up at shows! Many of them are in fact!) and those within the Yorkie community that you can practise what you preach. And more importantly that you ever striving to benefit yourself and your kennel by gaining the latest knowledge on dogs from different pedigrees (you've put your hands on a dog that came from " " and " ", something worth following &c.), knowledge that breeders really must have to be ethical ones themselves. Not just for the show, but for pet homes as well. Because both pets and show QUALITY Yorkies should be the same in the sense that they fit the standard and have no major faults. Once in awhile a recessive gene will creep up (nature of the beast) and you should be able to identify and correct so that it doesn't happen again. So showing would prove to yourself, if no one else that you really do have and can produce Yorkies that fit the standard. EVEN if you brought your dog ring side (even if it wasn't entered, and yes I know that's a no no, but don't tell me you haven't done it once or twice! lol) and ask a few people (handlers or breeder/owners) who just got out of the ring for their opinion. Careful, they'll most likely be honest!

i was done
 

well i was done replying to this thread but i will again tell you that my yorkies are of good quality with out being in a ring and that is where I am going to stand now I will shut my mouth and leave you to your dispute. And just because I dont show dont mean anyone has the right to judge me or my dogs thank you and have a nice day

Linda
 

Linda, I did not mean my remark to be unkind to you. A show dog is so much more then a "pretty face"...pretty is not what wins..a total package wins.. it is a healthy, well structured, outgoing, friendly dog, bred to the standard that should become a champion.
Anyone can hang a gorgeous coat of hair on a poor frame..and IMO that is what a lot of the Europeran breeders do..and they are breeding into the American lines for structure, health, temperment..because they want to produce a well rounded champion.
It is only my opinion, but to think of a show dog as pure beauty does a disservice to the dog..not to the breeder, but to the dog itself. Since I love dogs, I can not look at one and think.."you are nothing but a pretty face"...they are real dogs in every aspect.

I respect your opinion, please respect mine.

But Pat, I would even like to add that 'beauty pagent's' amongst young ladies strives for the same purpose. It is not just that the young lady is beautiful, but she is also required to do numerous hours of community service, have a lovely personality, etc. It is not a bad thing either.

I don't feel, however, that you have to show your yorkies to have a good line. It is not one in the same. Breeding takes an enormous amount of time, and I am sure showing takes an equally large amount of time. If a person has a family to take care of and a number of dogs, wouldn't it be better suited for you to have others showing your dogs? Just a guess. I just couldn't see having time for everything.

I am not a breeder, but had one litter of puppies. I know how much of my time that took. I have two children and two steps all in highschool. I do not work a full time job and barely have time to take care of my house and responsitibilities - I couldn't even think of adding to what is on my plate at the moment. Maybe in the future when all the kids are through college - 10 years - I could rethink adding more. Just keeping a show coat has to be a huge job in itself.

I have more respect for others than to suggest they know very little. Having different opinions doesn't make either of us right or wrong. However, I try to choose my words carefully.

I agree, it's the total package, but I still stand by the bottom line, it's a beauty contest, I never once said pretty face. Anyone can step into the ring, if that's what they choose to do. But, by stepping into the ring does not make your (not meaning yours specifically) dog top quality as someone else has implied in this thread. What many of us are saying, you can have top quality yorkies, healthy, well structured, outgoing, friendly dogs, meeting the highest breed standards, that could become a champion, without showing them. In the ring, each dog is judged individually, on it's own merits, based on the breed standards, but in order to win, you are still competing with each dog entered, based on one judges opinion on that particular day. Yes, they have to be qualified to judge. But, it still ends up as one person's opinion. I know what you're going to say, you have to keep doing the ring thing so you can end up with several winning opinions to prove you have a top quality dog.

<pretty is not what wins..a total package wins.. it is a healthy, well structured, outgoing, friendly dog, bred to the standard that should become a champion.> If all the dogs in the ring are equal in your total package, does that make the others less "qualified to be a champion?" No! But they didn't win. ??? The total package is not going to change by stepping into the ring. There are tons of blue ribbon winners out there that have never seen a ring because their owner chooses not to show. They don't need the validation or personal satisfaction. :wink:

Hi Linda, I'm Irene.

In reply to your comment on there are many more show quality Yorkies that aren't show. I've talk to may long time show breeders who produced years and years of Champions. I've always been told that a show quality puppy aka 'the entire package' is few and far between. Comparing breeding programs of a show breeder and a non show breeder. I would think that the non show breeder would have even less of a chance of producing the 'entire package'. I mean no disrepect, but to say that there are plenty of Yorkies out there that can be champions is just not true. Look at puppy find for example. I can't get past the pictures of the Yorkies. I'm not expert by any means but I can certainly tell the majority of the pups on there are NOT even close to the entire package. Heck, many don't even look like Yorkies.
To be honest, if there were so many show Yorkies out there they would be showing and winning right now. I can tell you that when I first got into breeding, I wasn't thinking about showing. But I've produced something that I think is worthy enough of putting in the ring. Even though he has some faults, he's closest to show quality I've produced. Not to show him would be silly. Again, just wanted to give my spin this topic, not trying to argue with ya.

Thanks.

:D bamafan, I like the way you think. If one is going to began breeding they must start someplace (and I don't mean with any dog that comes along), but you can not start with a yorkie that already has been in the ring or comes from that line. The people who breed them won't let you. So what do you do, you start your own line and keep making it better. Many will not sell pups to anyone with the ability to breed them, not saying just anyone should. While I think that there are some good reasons behind this (I would not want to sell a puppy to someone with a puppymill) sometimes it can hinder those who are trying to do good. If you are lucky you meet up with a good breeder who will help you along and will let you purchase good breedable pups, but some people have not had that luck. So they come here to ask questions and learn, and I think it is horrible when they are attacked and bashed instead of helped.

Thank you! Great minds think alike... ;)

:) Hi Irene,
Thank you for speaking up. <I've talk to may long time show breeders who produced years and years of Champions. I've always been told that a show quality puppy aka 'the entire package' is few and far between. > I would expect show breeders to say that. I agree, a non-showing breeder may have less of a chance to produce the total package, but that's my point, the potential is there but some posts have implied that it is impossible and have suggested that unless you show, even if you don't place, that their line is better than those who don't show.

<To be honest, if there were so many show Yorkies out there they would be showing and winning right now.> This is where we part waves. Not everyone WANTS to, has time to or have the finances to go through everything involved with preparing to show. Much more is involved than simply placing your dog to the ring.

<....he's closest to show quality I've produced. Not to show him would be silly.> Perhaps not to show him would be silly to you, but that's your choice. Don't degrade those who choose not to show for whatever reason. And that has been done on this thread, even if not intentional, it has been implied. PS: I'm talking in general, I don't mean you specifically. :kiss2wm:

And I keep thinking about this comment, did I miss the "I'm the best speller" contest.

boy I'm staying out of this cause I cant spell worth crap LOL

This is my point exactly!

The "Beauty Contest" outlook: I do NOT agree with this. There IS much more to it, IMO.

Quote<Not everyone WANTS to, has time to or have the finances to go through everything involved with preparing to show. Much more is involved than simply placing your dog to the ring.>

Well "everyone" seems to brag about CH in the background when selling puppies because it makes them worth something. It doesnt matter how far back they are or if there is only one. To say that someone has produced a show quality Yorkie and just doesn't want to show it just doesn't make sense, if that same person is bragging about the pedigree that was earned by someone else.

Personally, those that don't want to spend the extra time and money involved on showing a quality puppy they've produced is not spending the time and money needed to run the best breeding program they can. Now I'm not saying show every puppy you produce, but IF you produce something that's 'ring worthy' for lack of a better term.

This is just my opinion of course, but also how I run my program. I'm not speaking about your or your program as I know nothing about either.

We can agree to disagree dont' ya think? :)

BamaFan............I've agreed with your posts. Yes, I agree that there is much more to it than just a beauty contest, but when you have 10 or 20 dogs competing with equal "total" packages, bottom line, it boils down to a beauty contest. Everyone assumes that I view the entire process as nothing more than a beauty contest. That is not what think nor what I've said. It's the bottom line. Big difference. :animal-pa