Early Spay/Neuter - Page 8 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

SoCalyorkiLvr · 02-03-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarlson2004

What?

I never judged you or called you socially irresponsible. Is this post directed at me or in general? I ask because you quoted my post with your comments. I'm confused.

Oh no, Jen...not you...I thought you said you agreed with Cindy (livingdustmops) when she questioned my sense of social responsibility...

Sorry if I misunderstood......

Dogs4Me · 02-03-2006, 11:04 AM

Kim, why do you keep doing this? You start threads saying you want information and when people reply, you turn it into forum for expressing your views and belittling the views of others.

It gets tiresome.

BamaFan121s · 02-03-2006, 11:11 AM

Kim~ Here is another, more recent article (1999 vs 1993) you may want to look over. It addresses several of the points you have brought up here.

It states that there is no evidence that there is a higher incontinence in ESN or spayed vs unspayed dogs in general for that matter.--so I guess this "fact" has since been proven untrue?

It also states that the "gender characteristics" relate only to the size of the external genitalia but that there is no other evidence of clinical signifigance.--I guess this would be a set-back if you were particularly concerned about the size of the dog's...um, "stuff." (I for one, really don't care.)

http://www.petfinder.org/journalinde...ne/2.21.19.txt

BamaFan121s · 02-03-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogs4Me

Kim, why do you keep doing this? You start threads saying you want information and when people reply, you turn it into forum for expressing your views and belittling the views of others.

It gets tiresome.

I do agree with you.

However, these threads are often locked...hmmm...and no resolution is ever made. Perhaps if once and for all we get to the bottom of it, if there is such a thing, and discuss every possibility and aspect, this will come to an end?
Kim, do you think this would be possible? If all that happens is facts are determined and examined more thoroughly, we will all benefit and learn from it...this is your goal, right?

SoCalyorkiLvr · 02-03-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogs4Me

Kim, why do you keep doing this? You start threads saying you want information and when people reply, you turn it into forum for expressing your views and belittling the views of others.

It gets tiresome.

????????????????

I haven't belittled anyone and I started this thread to get info. Misty has decided she wants to ask about my sources for the info in an effort to learn even more and I am obliging her with answers. This is how we learn...free exchange of facts, ideas, sources and opinions

If you don't apppreciate the info on this

thread or just don't like the thread then you are free to ignore it.

RLC12345678 · 02-03-2006, 11:28 AM

I wanted to get Mr. Hobbs neutered as soon as I could with it still being safe. I wanted to get him fixed before he realized what was down there, and before he started humping, etc. I asked my vet about it, and he said that technically you can neuter a dog safely whenever their testicles drop. He also said that the humane shelter neuters them as early as 6 weeks, but he said that since the testicles are not dropped by then, this really is not safe. Mr. Hobbs testicles were dropped at 3 months, so I asked him if he could neuter him then. However, the vet said that the reason vets like to wait until dogs are at least 6 months old is because at 6 months most dogs are almost finished growing. The more weight a dog has on it, the less risk they have with anesthesia. He said it is very dangerous to anesthesize really small dogs. So, you can technically do it whenever, but it is safest to do it when they get some weight on them.

I have no idea about girl dogs. Why would you want to pre-maturely spay a female dog anyway??

JCarlson2004 · 02-03-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Oh no, Jen...not you...I thought you said you agreed with Cindy (livingdustmops) when she questioned my sense of social responsibility...

Sorry if I misunderstood......

I think we misunderstood each other.

Sorry about that.

JCarlson2004 · 02-03-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLC12345678

I have no idea about girl dogs. Why would you want to pre-maturely spay a female dog anyway??

I am not breeder so someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I believe some breeders spay their females before they sell them to 100% ensure that they will never be bred by their new owners.

I'm sure there are other reasons too.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 02-03-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarlson2004

I think we misunderstood each other.

Sorry about that.

No problem.....no harm done...

SoCalyorkiLvr · 02-03-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLC12345678

I have no idea about girl dogs. Why would you want to pre-maturely spay a female dog anyway??

This is a very good question but the concern of some breeders is that they cannot trust a buyer not to breed a female that they have produced and they feel that they "own" the right to control their "lines", the pedigrees of their breeding stock and they do not want dogs reproducing unless they approve of the matings.

The other argument in favor of ESN is the problem with the over population of dogs in our society and the fact that millions are put to death every year and are homeless. ESN would help control this problem.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 02-03-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I do agree with you.

However, these threads are often locked...hmmm...and no resolution is ever made. Perhaps if once and for all we get to the bottom of it, if there is such a thing, and discuss every possibility and aspect, this will come to an end?
Kim, do you think this would be possible? If all that happens is facts are determined and examined more thoroughly, we will all benefit and learn from it...this is your goal, right?

Yes, isn't that what we do when we post on here and when we read, we are learning from each other?

To think you can "get to the bottom of it" however may be too optimistic because they is a rarely a black and white right answer for everyone on these issues.

As soon as you have addressed EVERY aspect, a new one comes to light and we can continue. I find all of this fun and enlightening and thought everyone else would too. Why wouldn't everyone want to know everything about a subject such as this when it is so important to the health and well being of all of our YT babies and all of the dogs in this country?

SoCalyorkiLvr · 02-03-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

What he said in the paragraph you quoted from him, or what you said in your reply to Irene. Please specify.

Either or both.....the studies I have seen all support these cons as facts, not opinions.

Dogs4Me · 02-03-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

This is how we learn...free exchange of facts, ideas, sources and opinions

If you don't apppreciate the info on this

thread or just don't like the thread then you are free to ignore it.

But, Kim, what's happening here ISN"T free exchange of facts, ideas, sources, and opinions. What's happening here is several people freely exchanging their ideas, etc and one person refuting them. Free exchange of ideas, etc is when everyone listens to and respects other opinions expressed.

I DO appreciate the info on this thread. I don't appreciate the arguing.

BamaFan121s · 02-03-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

To think you can "get to the bottom of it" however may be too optimistic because they is a rarely a black and white right answer for everyone on these issues.

As soon as you have addressed EVERY aspect, a new one comes to light and we can continue. I find all of this fun and enlightening and thought everyone else would too.

No, we will never be able to "get to the bottom" of any issue I am sure. I am sure that people get tired of reading the same long post (not just yours) over and over again. This is my reason for the back and forth, question and answer going on here. Maybe if we once and for all look at all the aspects available, we can put it to rest...at least until the next fact/opinion/study/theory comes along? I have to ask though, for the sake of my sanity (and everyone else who may want to read) that we disscuss the pros/cons you have mentioned one at a time. It is much simpler that way and less confusing. There is no, "did we already mention this" and "this can be added to that." Otherwise, my head starts to hurt.
That being said, let's continue where we started: back at my post #108. I am awaiting your comments?

gymbo68 · 02-03-2006, 12:56 PM

UUGGHH...you girls have fun-
btw Kim I am still waiting for your reply on the sticky thread

I do not remember saying it was you--FYI

this thread is too much for me...I am off..but enjoy your debate/discussions-

02-03-2006, 12:56 PM	#120
gymbo68 YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,022	UUGGHH...you girls have fun- btw Kim I am still waiting for your reply on the sticky thread I do not remember saying it was you--FYI this thread is too much for me...I am off..but enjoy your debate/discussions- __________________ Max and Milos Dad!

02-03-2006, 11:04 AM	#107
Dogs4Me Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 11	Kim, why do you keep doing this? You start threads saying you want information and when people reply, you turn it into forum for expressing your views and belittling the views of others. It gets tiresome.

02-03-2006, 11:11 AM	#108
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	Kim~ Here is another, more recent article (1999 vs 1993) you may want to look over. It addresses several of the points you have brought up here. It states that there is no evidence that there is a higher incontinence in ESN or spayed vs unspayed dogs in general for that matter.--so I guess this "fact" has since been proven untrue? It also states that the "gender characteristics" relate only to the size of the external genitalia but that there is no other evidence of clinical signifigance.--I guess this would be a set-back if you were particularly concerned about the size of the dog's...um, "stuff." (I for one, really don't care.) http://www.petfinder.org/journalinde...ne/2.21.19.txt

02-03-2006, 11:28 AM	#111
RLC12345678 I heart Hootie & Hobbs Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 7,149	I wanted to get Mr. Hobbs neutered as soon as I could with it still being safe. I wanted to get him fixed before he realized what was down there, and before he started humping, etc. I asked my vet about it, and he said that technically you can neuter a dog safely whenever their testicles drop. He also said that the humane shelter neuters them as early as 6 weeks, but he said that since the testicles are not dropped by then, this really is not safe. Mr. Hobbs testicles were dropped at 3 months, so I asked him if he could neuter him then. However, the vet said that the reason vets like to wait until dogs are at least 6 months old is because at 6 months most dogs are almost finished growing. The more weight a dog has on it, the less risk they have with anesthesia. He said it is very dangerous to anesthesize really small dogs. So, you can technically do it whenever, but it is safest to do it when they get some weight on them. I have no idea about girl dogs. Why would you want to pre-maturely spay a female dog anyway??