Early Spay/Neuter

[PlatinumYorkies]

Have Mercy, I cannot believe this thread has came back after being buried for a whole week. Kim, I read through, you still haven't answered my question about Hefner's breeder. What was her reason for having this procedure done early? What was the illnesses her dogs suffered because of early s/n? Have Hefner had any troubles because of his early neuter? Thank you...

[Ponyup]

Socal - if no have no medical history and they didn't tell you he was neutered is it possible that he is still intact that his little berries just didn't or haven't dropped?

[Yorkieluv]

Blumoon Yorkies, Thank you for sharing your experiences regarding early s/n and late s/n You have first-hand knowledge on this subject...

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Another article says that another drawback to early s/n is the lack of gender specific characterisitics.

See this link for the entire article:http://www.labbies.com/neuter.htm

Here is an excerpt:
LACK OF GENDER CHARACTERISTICS ATTRIBUTED TO EARLY NEUTERING. Reproductive hormones such as estrogen in the female and testosterone in the male are also responsible for producing feminine and masculine traits, respectively. Early neutering which removes the source of production of these hormones prior to complete physical development and maturity of a dog results in individuals which may appear neither masculine nor feminine. Postponing neutering for 2-3 years in a male or allowing a female to go through one estrus cycle allows for development of gender characteristics.

Kim, what you referred to was from 1993. Here are two sources for more up to date information (2000-2002). The first one you might have to register but it is free and you might enjoy the website.

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Concann...r_frm.asp?LA=1

In: Recent Advances in Small Animal Reproduction, Concannon P.W., England G., Verstegen III J. and Linde-Forsberg C. (Eds.)
International Veterinary Information Service, Ithaca NY (www.ivis.org), 2000; A1201.0400
Prepuberal Gonadectomy - Early-Age Neutering of Dogs and Cats (Last Updated: 25-Apr-2000)
L. M. Howe1 and P. N. Olson2
1College of Veterinaty Medicine, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas, USA.
1Guide Dogs for the Blind, Inc., San Rafael California, USA.
Growth
Many veterinarians once held the belief that puppies and kittens neutered at early ages might be stunted in growth. Several research studies have now refuted these once-held beliefs. In a 15-month study conducted at the University of Florida, the effects of prepubertal gonadectomy on skeletal growth, weight gain, food intake, body fat, and secondary sex characteristics were investigated in 32 mixed-breed dogs [4]. Growth rates were unaffected (P>0.05) by gonadectomy, but the growth period in final radial/ulnar length was extended in all neutered male dogs (neutered at 7 weeks or 7 months) and in bitches neutered at 7 weeks of age. Thus, animals were not stunted in growth but were actually slightly (as determined by radiographs) taller. In a similar study at the same university [5], thirty-one cats were neutered at 7 weeks or 7 months or left intact. No differences (P>0.05) were detected between neutered cats, regardless of when they were neutered, for mature radius length or time of distal radial physeal closure. Distal radial physeal closure was delayed (P<0.05) in neutered cats when compared to intact cats. Similar findings in cats were reported by work from the University of Minnesota [6]. In males and females, distal radial physeal closure was delayed (P<0.01) in both groups of neutered cats (neutered at 7 weeks or 7 months of age) compared to intact animals. In female cats, proximal radial physeal closure was also significantly delayed (P=0.02) in cats neutered at 7 weeks of age.

http://www.angelswish.org/documents/SpayNeuterPaper.pdf

A 15-month study on the effects of prepubertal gonadectomy on skeletal growth, weight gain, food intake, body fat, secondary sex characteristics, and behavioral development in 32 mixed breed dogs. The study divided dogs into 3 groups: group 1 was neutered at 7 weeks of age, group two at 7 months of age, and group three unaltered.
 Skeletal growth: Greater in those neutered at 7 weeks than at 7 months; greater in 7 week old females than the males
 Body weight: Unaffected
 Food intake: Unaffected
 Secondary sex characteristics: Did not “grossly appear to reflect differences” Group of 7 week old had mean of 17.8mm; 7 months had mean of 16.8mm; and unaltered were a mean of 19.8mm
 “Concluded that neutering pups at 7 weeks affected skeletal, physical, and behavioral development much the same as did neutering pups at 7 months.”

[livingdustmops]

University
discussions and papers Cornell University
Phone conversation and Pediatric Spay/Neuter, a paper by Dr. Leslie Appel

Cornell highly supports and endorses pediatric spay/neuter. They have a 10-12 year study which will be released for publication next year. Dr. Appel has offered her time to assist or answer questions from any of our local veterinarians. As she says in reference to pediatric spay/neuter and efforts to eliminate the pet overpopulation “We’re in this together.” Dr. Appel provided a handout entitled “Pediatric Spay/Neuter” which she uses in lectures and presentations.

Other comments:
 8% risk of urinary incontinence in spayed (female) cats and dogs occur regardless of the age at which they are spayed
 Puppies have a slight increased risk of parvovirus when neutered prior to completion of their vaccinations. There is no similar risk for kittens.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by PlatinumYorkies

Have Mercy, I cannot believe this thread has came back after being buried for a whole week. Kim, I read through, you still haven't answered my question about Hefner's breeder. What was her reason for having this procedure done early? What was the illnesses her dogs suffered because of early s/n? Have Hefner had any troubles because of his early neuter? Thank you...

This thread hasn't been buried since it started and I know you said you "read through" but I answered your questions back on post #44..... Sorry you missed it.

And Ponyup, he is definitely neutered and I do have proof of the surgery....I just didn't have it until after I bought him.

Cindy~Most of the veterinary organizations in the US support ESN because they are trying to help the pet over population problem. All i ma saying is that each individual pet owner is responsible for their pet and must make the health decisions based on their circumstances including preventing their yorkies from getting pregnant when it is not planned.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

And Ponyup, he is definitely neutered and I do have proof of the surgery....I just didn't have it until after I bought him.

Why would you not have them until after? Did your breeder not give you medical records? I would think medical history would be a responsibility carried out before the purchase? I just don't understand.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Cornell highly supports and endorses pediatric spay/neuter. They have a 10-12 year study which will be released for publication next year. Dr. Appel has offered her time to assist or answer questions from any of our local veterinarians. As she says in reference to pediatric spay/neuter and efforts to eliminate the pet overpopulation “We’re in this together.” Dr. Appel provided a handout entitled “Pediatric Spay/Neuter” which she uses in lectures and presentations.

Other comments:
 8% risk of urinary incontinence in spayed (female) cats and dogs occur regardless of the age at which they are spayed
 Puppies have a slight increased risk of parvovirus when neutered prior to completion of their vaccinations. There is no similar risk for kittens.

Thank you for this Cindy as I had not read of the increased risk of parvo virus in early spay/neuter puppies.....that is pretty scary. Parvo is awful as we all know.

I had read that there was concern that the surgery may interfere with vaccination effectiveness but I guess this new study proves it ...at least where parvo is concerned.

It may be fine for shelters and rescues to practice ESN due to pet over population but I think pet owners who can responsibly prevent unwanted pregnancy should make their own choices for for their fur family members. IMO it would not be fair to impose this practice on the typical pet owner who knows how to properly contain their yorkie. Yorkies are mostly indoor dogs and the issues of roaming, etc., are really not as big a concern as they are with bigger dogs who are outside a lot.

JMHO.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

All i ma saying is that each individual pet owner is responsible for their pet and must make the health decisions based on their circumstances including preventing their yorkies from getting pregnant when it is not planned.

I agree with you 100%...yes, shocking isn't it? That has been my point all along too. And if s/n is the only way individuals can prevent a pregnancy, so be it. Reality is, for some owners, 24/7 of constantly watching dogs while a female in heat is just not a possibility.

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

The typical...she did not want her lines diluted...she sold him through a "friend" of hers who was a breeder so I never met her. I went to thw breeder to purchase a puppy for my 18 year old daughter and I saw Hefner and had to have him too. I paid a lot of money for him and was surprised to discover after having him home for several days that he was already neutered. I never thought that was something I needed to inquire about. I have never bred any of my dogs but I always got to make the decisions about neutering.

Thanks, however you weren't answering my questions specifically. I wanted to know if you ever asked the breeder questions but, seeing that you purchased Hefner from the breeders friend, my new question is...Did you ever try to get her infor mation so you could find out any and everything about the dog you purchased?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Why would you not have them until after? Did your breeder not give you medical records? I would think medical history would be a responsibility carried out before the purchase? I just don't understand.

This is off topic and I really do not know what you are getting at , but Hefner and Buddha were the first yorkies I had ever adopted. I did not buy from a pet store and I bought from a local breeder with 30 years experience who also sold puppies for a breeder co-op. The breeder I bought them from spent two hours with me going over their health histories including the fact that Buddha was allergic to sulfa, what vaccines they had had, all about hypoglycemia, etc. She sent me home with a fabulous puppy package including a crate, a purse carrier, toys, blankets, food, snacks, a free vet visit, a book on yorkies and her emergency cell phone number.

She later saved Buddha's life when he stopped eating! The vet did not know what to do and had prepared us to say goodbye to him but the breeder taught me how to syringe feed him and gave me all of the supplies and the medication to save him.

She was wonderful...so, no, she did not know until AFTER she sold Hefmer to me that he was neutered but I do not hold it against her because overall, she was a godsend. The breeder's vet and my vet confirmed that he was in fact neutered.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

IMO it would not be fair to impose this practice on the typical pet owner who knows how to properly contain their yorkie. Yorkies are mostly indoor dogs and the issues of roaming, etc., are really not as big a concern as they are with bigger dogs who are outside a lot.

Alas, you are right. I don't think this should be forced on ANY pet owner. They should be allowed to make the decision for themself. I think in the event that someone realizes containing their dog(s) during a heat cycle just isn't possible (either because they just don't want to or otherwise), they are doing the responsible thing by choosing the procedure. Unfortunately, even w/ the most responsible owner, there are moments that are..."slip ups?"

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

The typical...she did not want her lines diluted...she sold him through a "friend" of hers who was a breeder so I never met her. I went to thw breeder to purchase a puppy for my 18 year old daughter and I saw Hefner and had to have him too. I paid a lot of money for him and was surprised to discover after having him home for several days that he was already neutered. I never thought that was something I needed to inquire about. I have never bred any of my dogs but I always got to make the decisions about neutering.

Added the bolded to point out that I already answered your question....I never met her or talked to her....no.......do I wish I had in hindsight...of course...but almost all of us had less than perfect first time yorkie buying experiences.

I am still learning as we all are....I had Buddha neutered before I knew all of the potential side effects. I did it because I had always heard what everyone else has......that it is the responsible thing to do and I thought it was the best thing for him....The fact is there are no intact females where Buddha lives, he is 3 lbs so he is always inside or with my daughter 24/7. It would have been very easy in his case to prevent unwanted pregnancy as it is with most people who own yorkies imo.Being neutering has not curbed his desire to mark and he wears bellybands. Especially those who only own one.

In that case, I just feel people should be able to weigh all of the pros and cons and make a decision for each dog and not just assume that neutering is the right thing to do to every pet. That is all I am trying to impart.

[BamaFan121s]

[QUOTE=SoCalyorkiLvr]The breeder I bought them from spent two hours with me going over their health histories including the fact that Buddha was allergic to sulfa, what vaccines they had had, all about hypoglycemia, etc. /QUOTE]

Wow! 2 hours?!? That is good to know she was so thorough and open with you...just too bad his surgery was never mentioned.
You are right, I suppose, I guess maybe it was off topic? Sorry, did not mean to be so intrusive. In all honesty, I just know you are passionate about the subject and wanted to know why you made the decision you made. I guess this is a good example of what everyone here preaches about carefully examining the backgroud of the pup so you know you've found everything. You are an excellent example of why people shouldn't be set on finding "THIS gender, THIS age, THIS look, THIS size, etc" What I mean is, they all capture our hearts, as Hefner has yours, even though I know that given the option, you wouldn't have chosen this path for him.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Alas, you are right. I don't think this should be forced on ANY pet owner. They should be allowed to make the decision for themself. I think in the event that someone realizes containing their dog(s) during a heat cycle just isn't possible (either because they just don't want to or otherwise), they are doing the responsible thing by choosing the procedure. Unfortunately, even w/ the most responsible owner, there are moments that are..."slip ups?"

Hurray....a point of agreement!!

I have never said any different but the breeder who practices ESN takes the choice away from the pet owner. If ALL breeders did this then the decision would be FORCED on every pet owner. Now the pet owner who may choose not to neuter for whatever reason will have to choose to buy from a breeder who will respect their rights as the owner to make that elective health decision.