recent observation-
 

Now that I'm requiring references up front, I'm getting far fewer puppy inquiries. I'm not sorry about this, but very curious.

I'm not a breeder (yet) but what do you mean by references? Vet, character, etc? Some people see that as an intrusion. Personally, I wouldn't mind giving references but I'd have to have more than one/two conversations with someone then supply them with the info. But I understand if you'd want the references upfront to weed out undesirable potential buyers.

:thumbup: i'd see it as intrusion too. Well maybe not so much intrusion, but a trust issue. Its like when looking for a job, my references are entrusting me with their personal contact information, so I'm not handing that over to just anyone, and you definitely don't supply them with a job application. Unless an offer is pending, you don't get my references. For me, It would be the same buying a pup.

My prospective buyers first fill out an interview application....I go over that and contact them with any questions or concerns I may have.....some people do things they just do not realize can be a danger to a small dog. In my application, my request for references are first and foremost, a vet reference and/or a groomer, anyone else that they may have a professional relationship with that would verify that this person is trustworthy and responsible. Personal references, like friends or relatives or co workers, have always been contacted by the potential buyer BEFORE they are listed on the application....that is their responsibility to clear that reference before they list them.....just like ever other reference anyone gives for job interviews, etc.....you always check with people before you list them as references! I have not had anyone tell me they think my application and request for references is an intrusion.....just as anyone can check MY references, my vet, etc on line., they are scrutinizing ME as a reputable breeder. Just like THEY dont want to get stuck with a sick baby and a breeder that disappears on them, I dont want to send my baby to someone that can not/will not afford the $$$$ to provide medical care for the puppy, or they are not set up to provide care for a puppy, etc. Some people are all excited about getting a baby.....until it cries all night long for several of nights, maybe it has an issue with potty accidents, and the newness, the excitement, the thrill of having a new puppy suddenly sux! My buyer's references are every bit as important to me as MY reputation and ethics and honesty are important to any buyer. If they dont like me, they can choose another breeder.....if I dont think they are suitable to have one of my babies, I dont approve the application.

It has been my personal experience over the years, that people think they have the right to know everything about me and my breeding program and everything I do in relation to my business, (which is actually accurate) but occasionally, they do not think I have the responsibility to screen buyers for my voiceless babies.....my babies DEPEND on ME to put them in situations that are best for them.....that is a responsibility I take seriously, without reservation!

My owners stay in contact with me for many years....I have only lost contact with maybe 4 people, from out of State.... I have never regretted sending out any of my babies to any of the buyers that have come to me for a puppy.....I know them well and they know me...I always refer to us as the "extended RHG (Rosehill Gang) family.....and it is all good!

I filled out a lengthy application to adopt from my rescue because they want to break the cycle and make a forever home. But, with cash in hand to buy from a breeder, I don't feel like being scrutinized. I know I'm a good home and if the idiot selling me the dog can't figure it out then I'll be on my way to the next breeder.

I will say my breeder did ask me questions and we had lengthy conversations before I was even invited to her home to look at puppies. It wasn't a hi, hello, here's your money, there's your puppy, bye sort of thing. Maybe because I'm a bit private with certain info when I don't know someone well *shrug*. I didn't fill out any applications thankfully because I hate them(reminds me of university applications :D), but the questioning felt more natural and relaxed even though we were essentially conducting business.

You are quite simply fabulous and this response is exactly what I would want and expect from anyone I chose to buy a puppy from. The breeder I bought my baby girl from was equally fabulous. We talked for hours and hours and I actually drove 10 hours to visit her twice before picking up my girl. I can honestly say we knew each other and were 100% comfortable with each other before any contracts were signed. When I bring a dog into my family it is with the expectation of 15 plus years of devotion on both our parts. I want to know that my babies first mommy loved her just as much.

As for the furnishings of references, bring it on. I have nothing to hide and would gladly present them.

I wonder if that door swings both ways? A breeder takes your cash, requests nothing from you but cash for the dog, you obviously expect nothing from the breeder, not now, not in the future, since you have paid your money....and "that idiot" had better not expect anything but money from you.......... and in 8 months your dog is diagnosed with a liver shunt or failing kidneys or a heart valve issue.....what a relief that you paid your money to the idiot and you left with your pup, so all responsibilities from either party to the other is a done deal, sealed with nothing but an exchange of cash. You know you are a wonderful person/pet owner and the breeder knows she is a great breeder, so it is a wash! Great....easy and so uncomplicated! If either one of you is not as great as you think you are, it makes no difference....you got your pup, she got her money! Neither one of you owes the other the time of day.....

I require the information I require so MY babies do not end up in a rescue or the pound in the first place! My babies are going to their furever home, bypassing the streets or the pound or the need to be rescued!

Kudos to both of you! I see the results every single day of why breeders should take the time to scrutinize the people they sell to!!

Every single yorkie that ends up in the streets, in a shelter or in a rescue has come from a breeder. This is where the problems begin ... and I wish all breeders cared enough to stop the problem It is not just puppy mills that are the problem with homeless dogs.

I have let my guard down a few times in the past and spoken with people on the telephone prior to doing reference checks and there have been a couple that blew my mind. People can tell you everything you want to hear...but not do anything near what they tell you. One lady I remember SO well. She had all these stories about the pup she had lost to prostrate cancer at the age of (I think) 14??. Anyway...she had spent all this money taking him to this vet and that vet...and had even had cataract surgery done. She named the various specialty hospitals and vets. Wonderful conversation! I was so excited for this foster I had that she wanted. The next day, I called the vet she had listed and the girl who answered told me that they had only seen this dog one time....on the day he was euthanized. I asked why they euthanized, but she did not have that information. So....I sent this lady an email telling her what I had found out, surely she had other vets that I could call. I didn't hear from her immediately....I think a day passed?? Next thing I get is a LONG email telling me how sorry she was that she had lied and made up the story and didn't know what was wrong with the pup she euthanized :( .. but that she would do better with my foster and would I please give her a chance. She begged me .. matter of fact she kept emailing me for about two weeks. She finally gave up. I had another one I thought was awesome until I found out that she had two dogs living outside in Galveston...one was heartworm positive and she refused treatment. I don't speak with anyone about adoption any more unless they complete the application to adopt and that must include references. If they find that intrusive, then they need to move along. I have no time for games. These are living beings...not stuffed animals and I believe that if a person truly cares they will do the right thing...that goes for breeder, seller, rescuer, adopter.

What the....!!!!!!!!!!!


What a horrible thing to have done and to try and lie about it??? It would have been better for her to be up front about what she had learned and not try to hide it..


Ugh. Good on you for being so vigilant.

The contact covers that.

:(No breeder pays for the medical issues. They give you a replacement dog or refund the purchase price. If I'm wrong post a contact that says a breeder will lay med bills. Emotional support is nice but I don't need that when I'm paying the huge bills for a dog someone else made into a mess.

The idiot selling the dog comment doesn't apply to everyone selling dogs, just idiots. Some breeders are better than others. Some are great until you want your purchase price back to roll into your dog who cost more than 5x the purchase price in the first two years of his life. It's medical problems and lack of affordability that lands dogs in rescues and they are often times later unadoptable.

Yep, people are something else sometimes. That one is a perfect example about why we want references. She didn't view her behavior as unacceptable until she got caught. This is just one person....it happens more than you could imagine. I think people don't believe we will check references.

:thumbup:
I wonder if you would email me your application for use as a guide to making my own.

If I wanted a pup from a reputable breeder heck I would be willing to give a blood sample lol. I think when a breeder asks a lot of questions and for references it shows that it's more about the pups then the money. If someone is not willing to answer the questions I would be worried they might not be willing to do everything a pup might need. Great job to those of y'all that do that.

I think an application is a marketing tool for breeders. Rescues have donors they have to answer to so I view it differently. If buyers think a breeder is "reputable" because of an application then we are likely to see everyone popping applications on their websites as a way to promote themselves. I just think it won't appeal to everyone and it may not be because they aren't good owners. They just may feel it's none of anyone's business to answer some of the questions I've seen. You want to call my vet, I'll list all 20++ of them that love me. Ask me my income and it's none of your business.

We don't ask for income. I just believe that people who are selling or adopting dogs out should be more aware of who they are handing living beings over to. Do they have a history of having cared for dogs? Do they know what good vetting is? If I were a breeder, I would honestly not care what someone thought about my questions. My dogs to place and I certainly would not give them to just anyone with money in hand. Just selling to a person because they say they will do the right thing is not the answer. I would rather lose one good owner than sell to three bad ones. The pups are the ones who pay the ultimate price of poor placements

We don't ask people questions just because we have donors we answer to........we ask because we don't want a pup we saved to be dumped yet another time in his/her short life.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Exactly how I look at this....well said....and the history I have with every one of my owners, proves me correct in my approach. It has not failed me yet....but more importantly, it hasnt failed my babies!

Absolutely! PM me your email so I can send it to you...you can tweek it to suit your needs, or what YOU feel is important....it isnt at all intrusive and nosey, but it gives you guidance about what you are working with. I go over the application with them, discussing what they have oprovided, and asking some other questions that are important to me that I feel are better asked after the initial application.....

Thank you both, LadyJane and Yorkiemom1, for your input. This is New England and I expect people to be resistant to a more formal approach to obtaining one of my pups.
To me this is a mistake avoidance tool, not a marketing gimmick. If I needed a marketing boost I'd drop my prices and hand puppies over no questions asked.
I'm not seeking financial information from the applicants. I want to know what they have to offer as far of type of home, owned or rented, whether fenced in, how many other people and pets live there, children's ages, how long a puppy would be home alone on a typical day. I want to speak with a couple of their friends and their veterinarian about how good they are with animals. I don't need to know their income.
I'm in agreement that the welfare of the pups has to come first or this isn't worth doing.:)

pm me and give me your email so I can send this template to you for guidance....it has served me and my pups well......and of course, I am chatting and emailing prospective buyers continously, we get to know each other and jointly, respectfully, share information and answer each others questions, out of mutual concern for the baby.

I don't think asking for a vet reference, dog groomer reference is over the line or an intrusion. I'm placing "MY" pup/dog with an unknown person so that person better be able to speak with me hours on end about themselves, dogs and yorkies in general and ask me just as many questions and even ask for my references. Just my two cents :)

Donna

I advertise "Sold to Approved Homes Only", so that "shakes the wheat from the shaft" in most cases.....people that dont want to share information that allows me to determine if I consider a home approved safe and caring for my puppy, go no further with me. Never been a major issue for my business. Quite the contrary, many people enthusiastically fill out the application, adding footnotes and other information they think I am interested in, and they have even told me they appreciate the fact that their breeder is concerned enough about who they sell their puppies to, that they go thru an application process with new buyers, selling to approved homes only!

I get it. And those are the questions I don't feel I need to answer to a breeder when I have a couple of thousand dollars in hand. Breeders are selling dogs, not placing or rescuing them. Any money they spend on dogs is for profit whereas rescue is nonprofit with a different philosophical origin. This is how I see it, I don't expect everyone to agree. I simply am offering magic genie a possible reason why her sales may be drying up. I represent the average New England buyer. She's in the business of selling dogs and I'm sure does not want to keep losing money when they puppies don't sell. There are not a lot of Yorkie breeders in New England but in today's day and age with very good breeders elsewhere shipping puppies to buyers, I can buy a dog for half the price without all the questions. The value of the local breeder isn't there for some people and becomes less so when it's too much of a process. That does not equate with being a bad owner.

Would be good to run it by an objective potential buyer too.

I'd spoken to several breeders before settling on the one I purchased my yorkies from. Some questions I as a potential buyer, I just don't feel I should have to answer. Vet, character, and groomer(I groom myself) references I understand. Housing setup I understand as well (fenced in yard, etc). I had one breeder ask me if I planned on having anymore children. While I understood her reasoning (some people do abandon animals when a new baby comes along) it was not a question I felt she had a right ask and not one I was comfortable answering. My reproducing is no one's business but mine, my husband's, and my ob/gyn. Right then and there I knew I was not the right buyer for her and she wasn't the breeder for me. Not a bad thing.

??? All my potential buyers ARE sent an application......

Not you, I meant magic genie if she wanted input on how it reads etc.

No, I dont think so, because you have people that have no clue about how breeding and showing dogs works and they would tear any efforts apart, regardless of how sincere the attempts are......she has her business and she does not need approval for what she does in relationship to her business, to assure in her mind that her babies are going to good homes. She just needs to do what she can live with in her own heart....some of us are alot more restrictive than others, some of us consider things that may not be important to others, but we all try to do what we can to be sure our pups do not end up in rescues and pounds or on the streets. If she sends out applications and someone does not like it, they will move on. Wonderful for everyone! If her "sales are drying up", this stuff is cyclic and you have periods where you can hardly give pups away.....sometimes it is males that wont move....then you get into a timeframe where you could sell anything....you cant keep babies around! This year, I have never had so many people wanting little boys!! I always have little males available....this year, it is like everyone suddenly realized what fabulous adoring companions little boys are!!!
Magicgenie may be in one of those inevitable slumps....we all have them.....she will ride it out, tweek her operations like we all do periodically, and she will do fine! I dont think she needs to justify what she does with her business practices to meet the goals she has set up for her program.

I would be happy to answer most anything, and I don't think I'd be comfortable getting a puppy or dog from someone who doesn't screen buyers thoroughly. I may be incorrect, but sometimes the answers to the questions are not as important as the feeling of love that must come through. I know some people lie, but when someone truly values dogs, I think that comes through more through someone's feelings. I have been told by people who know me well that they can easily tell by looking at me when I am talking about Katie or my Rainbow Bridge babies. They have told me my face lights up whenever I talk about them. I have used the same vet for twenty years (except for the two years after I lost my last Yorkie and until I welcomed Katie into our lives), so I would gladly provide references. Before Katie, I filled out one application for a Biewer from a reputable breeder that we decided against because we weren't ready yet. We told the breeder that up front. We were asked if we wanted two of her females who she was retiring from breeding, so we were approved by this breeder. I think people may lie about a lot of things, but I don't think you can lie about love, but perhaps that's my own naïveté. When reading posts here on YT, I read the words, but what moves me much more is the feeling of love that is almost palpable.

I feel it is imperative to screen buyers throughly, and I have deep respect for breeders who care enough about the lives that they create to make sure they are forever loved, protected, and cared for. When I talk to a breeder, I want to hear the love they feel for their babies. There is no doubt in my mind that Katie's breeder loved her dearly. I see it in Katie's confidence and wonderful temperament and in her breeder's words as she talked about Katie, but more importantly, I felt the love she feels for Katie. I am very grateful that she entrusted me with our little girl.