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Truly sad what humans have done to some animals to achieve a certain look. |
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I agree, but you know for the most part those standards have not changed in any significant way, but the interpretation of that standard that the breeders were responsible for safeguarding, took it to shall I say extremes. In my mind it is a direct arrow to the Breed Clubs, the breeders and the Judges who started to award ribbons to extreme presentation of the breed. They the BBC never showed the breeds that improved over the past 50 or 70 or 100 years. Improved in conformation or structure or temperament. Now in my judging seminars for the BRT - I am very clear about its structure - and there are lots of judging details to that structure which is contained with in our standard. But still some breeders are breeding not to a square dog with a balanced powerfull hindquarters and chest, but playing to a more rectangular dog. Why ? One reason is you get a much more showey trot! You get visually better reach and drive - ergo more showey. They were never meant to be showey dogs - but quite frankly from a seated position to leap up to the throat of a 6ft tall person. Powerfull hindquarters and chest is needed for this. They are one of the few breeds that were bred to guard and protect Man/Woman. They are to have dense bones - and we had been seeing some more lighter boned dogs out there. Thankfully that has changed - due to judges education, breeders education and breeders not getting a blue ribbon award. Like any complex organization there are many avenues of inquiry and solutions are somewhat complicated. But it starts for sure with a strong National Breed Club - that upholds the standard and is very very leery of changing it in anyway. The exception would be for health issues. And even then - that is a multi-faceted decision, that takes time to fully understand the impact. What condition do we require CHIC numbers for, what condition if any do we strongly aver as part of a breeding pair? |
I breed to improve the breed and to find my next show dog. I have a good application and yes I do ask for your vet and groomers as references. once I think I may consider you for a puppy I want personal references. I have worked with buyers where my puppy is the first puppy they have ever had. I am in contact with 95% of my buyers. About 75% come back for a 2nd or 3rd puppy. Most of the time my waiting list covers all the puppies available in my occasional litters so I do not advertise. So if you show up with cash in hand expecting a puppy, you are dreaming. |
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ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto!!! In my case, easily 50% are referrals from members of the extended Rosehill Family, 30% are repeat buyers, and 20% are people that have seen my web site! |
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For my breed along with vet reference - I would like to see a trainer reference. At the least that this person either has the knowledge personally to train this dog and or has a trainer in place. In fact the requirement for obedience training is in their contract.... |
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Each person who sells or adopts a dog to a home has his/her right to ask for whatever references they wish; and each applicant has the right to refuse. They don't, however, have a right to obtain the animal they wish to purchase or adopt. |
I do believe that the breeder has a responsibility to place their puppies in good homes so I wouldn't mind filling out questions. I do think the question about having future children is a bit nosy. Maybe some questions can be figuered out in regular conversation when asking if they have small children. The couple next door to us has two large dogs. They were indoor dogs described to us as "their babies". They took them for walks regularly, played ball in the back yard and baby talked to them. Then they had a REAL baby. Now those dogs are left out in the yard all day with no attention. No walks, no ball. When REAL baby is in the yard the dogs get yelled at to "SHUT UP" and "get out of the way". We can even hear them inside the house yelling at the dogs. On several occasions I have seen one of the dogs, the older female, lying in the yard in an odd position for long stretches of time without moving. A couple of times I thought she had died. Going from being "the babies" to "the outcasts" seems to have made them very depressed. I feel so sorry for these poor dogs. If I were these dogs breeder and I knew about this, I would be heartbroken. |
And folks wonder why breeders don't want to place puppies in a young persons home? It takes a leap of faith. You trust and hope that this 30yr old won't desert their dog if they get two children - or a big job move. You trust n hope that they call you first if they need for what-ever reason to re-home their dog. You try by keeping in touch with your puppy owners to stay on top of things. You can do all the reference checks etc, but at the end of the day - there is just hope. But how many times with a health issue - or a re-homing one - have we asked have you talked with the breeder or notified the breeder and the answer is no. |
Another thing.....I know you probably can't ask about a potential adopter's health, but I know a person who is in her 50's who is in very poor health. She just lost her border collie and wanted another dog. She has been in search of an assisted living housing because she can't keep up her home and can't get around well. She just adopted a JRT puppy mix from a shelter. This dog is full of energy but she can't walk it. She does not know if an assisted living place will allow a puppy. It is getting pretty big and has a lot of energy. What is going to happen to this puppy if she can't take it with her? And if she can, are people at an assisted living facility going to take it outside, walk it and go buy food for it? She has no kids or family. It is pretty apparent to me that she is not thinking about the welfare of this puppy in the future, so it is up to the rescue that let her take this puppy to try to find a forever home for this puppy. Unfortunately, in the case of this puppy, it remains to be seen if this will be a furever home. I can understand that this lady is lonely and wanted a companion but I don't think a puppy was the right choice for her. I don't know what she was thinking. |
I would welcome a breeder that asks for references. I'm happy to give them. Nothing to hide. I've had 3 yorkies and the same Vet has taken care of all of them. My yorkie is my "child". I do have one question. Do any of the breeders that have replied on this post, sell to someone that doesn't have a fenced in yard? I have never had a fenced in yard. None of my yorkies have ever been outside off leash. I live in a subdivision that doesn't allow fences. |
I sell to people that do not have fenced in yards, because actually, that means they wont be putting that baby out in the back yard, unsupervised, with a false sense of security that comes with a 6-8 foot fence. "UNSUPERVISED" is my huge flapping red flag!!! Another key word for "unsupervised" is "doggie door"..... |
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Another thing that worries me is when they tell me they live on many acres and it is quiet...no road or automobiles close by. Yikes! |
I have NEVER let any of my babies out alone. I have always been with them and them on a leash. I could never feel comfortable letting them out on their own, ever. I am so afraid of hawks and coyotes. It would only take a couple of seconds and she would be gone :( My little one has a few nice winter coats and sweaters and good boots. She loves to tromp around in the snow once I get her boots on. |
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Fenced in yards are not the out of the field question for me/ My breeder of RAzzle wanted to look at my home setup as she trained my large breed dogs and knew Magic but as it happened I ended up a month later with a puppy from Russia. She was upset that I never told this was up n coming. We got through it, with conversation and my re-committed to keeping Razzle safe!And he has been not only kept safe but through his contracted agreements kept in prime physical conditions with all health tests done and at the minmum one conformation CH. Which of course he has two Ch and one GCH. So with all the stranger rescues - you would never place in my home a YT with two or more BRT's. This despite the fact I have a proven record, obedience train my dogs, provide the best of health care for my animals, do dock diving, have a fenced in yard, and can't remember when I took a vacation without my dogs with me/ I crate and rotate and have never had am *Accidental Pregnacy* and of course I keep my dogs intact. Well at least the males - females are done when then finish breeding. |
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So, the life inquisition seems rediculous, IMO. And people clearly cant judge how 'good ' people are. You never know what someone is like behind closed doors. Your neighbor seems nice, but everyone that beats their spouse, molests their child, kicks their dog, etc., is someone's neighbor. And it happens in all walks of life, from the welfare recipient, to the local business owner, to the police chief & to the local priest. So how do you truly KNOW who is good? |
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Trust me there are red flags and if a person takes enough time to properly interview someone, they can reduce the likelihood of failures. |
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:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: You do the very best you can do....I have been very fortunate with my assessments.....establishing a "relationship" with a buyer before the pup is ready to be released to them, is actually pretty easy, and you get to know your buyer very well. If their life situation changes, and they can no longer care for the pup, it is imperative they know and agree the pup comes back to me. Life is life and we can not possibly be prepared for every life situation of every single person in the general public, but you cant just give up without even trying to provide for a wonderful new home for the puppy, and just let baby go to whoever has a fistful of cash.....that would make you no better than a puppy mill. |
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I actually was on a waiting list for Emma for roughly a year. I think when we were notified a puppy was avaialble, when I contacted her back, we talked for roughly 30 minutes about our lifestyle (living space, my work situation, children, pet history, etc). Everything she asked seemed to be adequate for the scenario and nothing was intrusive. I think that her asking for references was valid and I wouldn't be approved without having spoken to them. I thought I asked the right questions of her and to this day I'm appreciative that she thought highly enough of me to let us bring Emma home. Emma easily could have been sold as to a show home but she's with us. Also, Gemy mentioned that some breeders were hesitant to sell to people who were in their 30s who may relocate for work, have babies etc. I could see the rationale actually but I'm in my 30s, just relocated for work and I have a 12 year old. So that doesn't necessarily disqualify someone from being a good home. I think that the idea to ask for references after you speak with the owner is okay but to ask them at the time of the application may not be ideal. I think you should get a good vibe for the person first and then decide if its even worth the effort to move forward with calling the references. You also want to give the applicant the opportunity to alert their references so they are not caught off guard with the phone call or not answer the call at all. Vet/groomer references need that headsup because their may be several clients in the same practice with the same name or what have you. I read through all 6 pages before compiling my response so I think I've touched on everything I wanted to mention. Long post. Whew! |
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