Parti History discussion

[SnowBlueYorkies]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

"The new variety appears even to have been credited with all the merits of the old, and, as a natural consequence, connoisseurs, fanciers, ladies, and even gamekeepers went in for the fashionable and pretty silky Skyes. So in this way the old breed, especially on the mainland, has been reduced to a parcel of mongrels. "



That's is my fear with the yorkie. The repetitive breeding of off-standard dogs will move us further away from how we know the Yorkshire Terrier to be, and years down the line will result in mongrels with little to no resemblance to a yorkie.

It wont take years down the line for yorkies to look like mongrels, all one has to do is look on puppyfind. How many blue and tan do you see on there that already look like mongrels. I see plenty. There are so many black and tans off standard and you would be lucky to find 10 dogs out of 130 pages of them. The standard is not just about color, its about other qualities also. What i see is alot of people who are colorblind. You would rather see a mutt thats registered yorkie as long as its blue and tan than a well put together structurally sound beautiful Parti color yorkie. Somehow i find that so wrong.. I happen to think the Parti colored yorkie is a magnificent looking yorkie when bred right just like a magnificent blue and tan. The Beauty of the black, white and tan is something that can take your breath away when you see one in the show ring. You will always have puppymills and bad breeders but on the same token you also have good breeders. Not all breeders of the standard yorkie are good breeders the same with colors but some of us are proud of our Parti color yorkies and do show them when we can. We love them just as much as you love your standard ones. I agree they aren't the standard but that does not mean they aren't a yorkie and that its ok for you to keep telling us that we are all money hungry and that we shouldn't be breeding them. WE have our own show venues and I don't see anyone trying to force them into the AKC showring so i really don't understand why all the hate for them.

[Mike1975]

Originally Posted by SnowBlueYorkies

The standard is not just about color, its about other qualities also.

What i see is alot of people who are colorblind. You would rather see a mutt thats registered yorkie as long as its blue and tan than a well put together structurally sound beautiful Parti color yorkie. Somehow i find that so wrong..

You choose the parts of the standard that suits your breeding.
What is convenient to you and all the "off color - rare - WOW" breeders.
You choose to breed under your OWN standard and you are trying to make it look like it is ok....

Well... IT IS NOT OK.

This is wrong.

There is only one standard and you don't seem to care that color and texture are the breed's most distinctive physical traits.

And maybe this is a bit extreme, but if we continue to disrespect the standard and breed what ever trait we want, like or is convenient to supply the demand, we are gonna loose the breed.

A blue and tan unsound dog with structural faults is as wrong as a sound purple, white, chocolate or whatever off color "yorkie".
Both "breeders" that breed in these faults, are equally wrong.
A parti color dog does not represent a TRUE YORKIE.
The dog that reflects the vision of those who originated the breed.
This vision is written in the standard.

IMO there are 2 options.

Respect the WHOLE standard and breed to it.

or

find another breed.


Don't mess with this one.

[SnowBlueYorkies]

AKC has been registering them for 15 years so i'm pretty sure the colors are here to stay.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Mike1975

You choose the parts of the standard that suits your breeding.
What is convenient to you and all the "off color - rare - WOW" breeders.
You choose to breed under your OWN standard and you are trying to make it look like it is ok....

Well... IT IS NOT OK.

This is wrong.

There is only one standard and you don't seem to care that color and texture are the breed's most distinctive physical traits.

And maybe this is a bit extreme, but if we continue to disrespect the standard and breed what ever trait we want, like or is convenient to supply the demand, we are gonna loose the breed.

A blue and tan unsound dog with structural faults is as wrong as a sound purple, white, chocolate or whatever off color "yorkie".
Both "breeders" that breed in these faults, are equally wrong.
A parti color dog does not represent a TRUE YORKIE.
The dog that reflects the vision of those who originated the breed.
This vision is written in the standard.

IMO there are 2 options.

Respect the WHOLE standard and breed to it.

or

find another breed.


Don't mess with this one.

Mike, you make some very good points and you can hear your passion and it is to be respected.

I agree with you that an unsound dog of ANY color should not be bred. There are far to many people breeding dogs for what they see as $$$$ (I've yet to find it) and less for the improvement of their lines. This I'm afraid is a shame with the off color AS WELL as the standard color yorkie. To say all breeders of the off colored yorkies are doing it for the quick buck is just not the case, no more than for me to say that's what you are in it for.. and I certainly would never say that.

I however have to disagree on a few points, the tri colored and other off colored varieties of the yorkie HAVE been proven to be true Yorkies.. just because the color is different does not make them a different breed. I understand that the standard for coat color is off, but the texture can be achieved (although it is a challenge of course).

We are not 'messing" with the breed.. these colors are coming FROM the breed.. we are not adding them in. I understand that many do not agree with that statement either, but as far as I know, and as far as the pedigrees show and the DNA prove, the dogs we are using are pure, AKC registered dogs that came from blue/gold stock.


There are some of us out there who also have a passion for doing it right, we are trying to produce a healthy, well structured yorkie with good character. We see the Yorkie as more than just coat color and texture.. this dog is SO much more.. to me, the LAST thing I worry about is color and it's always the first and seems like the only thing on the YTCA peoples mind.. You miss so much of this wonderful dog when you only care about the color of the coat!!

Honestly, I had a well respected breeder see my standard blue/gold female and ask if I had a male with that coat color.. I said I did and she wanted to use him for a stud.. I asked her if she wanted to know his lines, or his weight or his character or anything else about him.. and she said.. no, if he has that color coat, he's perfect!!! I was floored.

I guess this is where the disconnect comes in.. you all care soo darn much about that coat color, you seem to have lost the dog. I breed for the dog, and cool.. look at all the colors they can be~ the coat color is NOT the most important part to me.. getting the texture is important, getting good ear set is important, having a great top line is important, good structure, good bit, perfect health good character.. now those things are important.. but color.. not so much..the over all look of the dog is what I look at, total package.

These dogs have been registered now for 15 years, they have only increased in popularity and registration numbers. I don't see them going away any time soon no matter what the YTCA thinks of them or tries to do. It would be far better, in my opinion, to work with the breeders of the off colored yorkies than against them. (What is that old adage, keep your friends close, your enemies closer or something like that?) Maybe try and work something out between the two groups instead of fighting each other? There has to be a more productive way of doing this then to constantly butt heads, neither side is going to change their ideas. Other breeds have worked it out.

Diana

[Mike1975]

Originally Posted by SnowBlueYorkies

AKC has been registering them for 15 years so i'm pretty sure the colors are here to stay.

AKC registers unsound dogs too.
Registration alone does not prove or mean anything.
A purebred dog may be ANY dog descended from purebred parents.
No standard involved.

This clearly means that a purebred dog with full registration may be a dog with undesirable traits, a dog with major faults, a dog that does not conform to its breed standard.

Its the breeder's responsibility to evaluate the faults and the virtues of his/her dogs and act accordingly.
Its the breeder's responsibility to breed to the standard.
Its the breeder's responsibility to breed the faults OUT and breed the virtues in - if any.

That is why, AKC response in the famous letter that all Parti breeders are referring to, stated also that :

"The AKC would like you to understand that the correct color and marking pattern of the YT is considered to be one of the breed's most distinctive physical traits. The standard for the breed places the coat's texture and color of the utmost importance when evaluating specimens of the breed. The AKC would like to advice you to take this into consideration before choosing to breed your dog"

akcaccept.png Photo by Partiyorkies | Photobucket



Dear Diana

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

I guess this is where the disconnect comes in.. you all care soo darn much about that coat color, you seem to have lost the dog. I breed for the dog, and cool.. look at all the colors they can be~ the coat color is NOT the most important part to me.. getting the texture is important, getting good ear set is important, having a great top line is important, good structure, good bit, perfect health good character.. now those things are important.. but color.. not so much..the over all look of the dog is what I look at, total package.

I understand what you are saying and I have seen many times unsound dogs with perfect blue and tan silky coats.
I have also seen yorkies with wonderful bodies lacking color and texture. Sound dogs with great temperament, outstanding toplines/fronts/rears, beautiful heads... poetry in motion....
But...
No color....
or... wrong color.

Color and texture ALONE do not define Yorkie type.
Nor structure ALONE.

Silkies also have the same - or almost the same - color and texture.
I guess anyone can distinguish a yorkie from a silky.
How???
Silhouette and head.

So someone will say that there are other traits that define type.
This is true.

But each trait is important and essential.
And all traits combined together distinguish a Yorkie from any other breed.

The ideal yorkie excels in structure, movement, silhouette, head, temperament, color & texture.
And that is the goal.
That is what we are striving for.
Plus HEALTH. Of course!!!


So...
We care about the whole package.
We strive for the whole package.
Not color and texture alone, but for ALL the traits that give a yorkie TYPE including color.
At least we are trying to.

And that is a very difficult challenge.

[ironmike86]

The Akc registers Parties? They won't show Parties under the Akc or will they? No Still a fault in the Yorkie. I know many breeders who try to keep the White color out. Then theres ppl mixing.. Dunno. They need to make up there mind on acceptable colors. If white isn't acceptable they should register them as a purebreed. Guess they just want money

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

The Akc registers Parties? They won't show Parties under the Akc or will they? No Still a fault in the Yorkie. I know many breeders who try to keep the White color out. Then theres ppl mixing.. Dunno. They need to make up there mind on acceptable colors. If white isn't acceptable they should register them as a purebreed. Guess they just want money

I think what's confusing is that DNA says they're pure bred Yorkshire Terrier even though the color combination is contrary to the "standard." The purists want to cull them from the gene pool but some breeders who actually like the colors want to promote them. Nasty arguments ensue. I'm on the fence. I like the traditional blue and tan standard but don't really understand the harm in the existence of the Partis, even if it does mean extra work tracking pedigree information.

[ironmike86]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I think what's confusing is that DNA says they're pure bred Yorkshire Terrier even though the color combination is contrary to the "standard." The purists want to cull them from the gene pool but some breeders who actually like the colors want to promote them. Nasty arguments ensue. I'm on the fence. I like the traditional blue and tan standard but don't really understand the harm in the existence of the Partis, even if it does mean extra work tracking pedigree information.

Purist don't like the white... parties is just keeping it in. I see all kinds of Yorkies turning white. Not the desired color

[Mike1975]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I think what's confusing is that DNA says they're pure bred Yorkshire Terrier even though the color combination is contrary to the "standard." The purists want to cull them from the gene pool but some breeders who actually like the colors want to promote them. Nasty arguments ensue. I'm on the fence. I like the traditional blue and tan standard but don't really understand the harm in the existence of the Partis, even if it does mean extra work tracking pedigree information.

What bothers me most is that these people not only disrespect and violate the standard, the history and the vision of those who originated our breed's identity, but that they want to change the standard, allowing off color yorkies to be considered TRUE representatives of the breed.

Yorkies' most distinctive physical traits are color and texture. These traits make our breed unique in the dog world. Its not a trait of minor importance, its a trait of ULTIMATE importance.

Respect the past and embrace the future.

Do you love the breed for what it is?
Do you respect the history and the vision of those who originated this breed?
Do you really understand the importance of a written standard?

If the answer to these simple and plain questions is YES, then you breed to the standard of the breed you are dedicated to, and strive for perfection.


Let me remind you that the standard, is a written description of the ideal. A guide serving a common goal : creation of the ideal described.
Disrespecting this standard and breeding traits opposed to this description, leads to something else that has nothing to do with the described breed.

We owe the existence of this breed to all dedicated breeders who bred to this standard, otherwise yorkies couldn't possibly exist.

[Mike1975]

It feels really awkward being alone here defending Yorkshire Terriers.
I feel alone in a "Yorkshire Terrier" forum with thousands of members.

This is really sad and makes me wonder what the future of this breed will be...

[Mike1975]

"The responsibility of protecting the breed
and it’s standard now falls into the hands
of those breeding now and those
who will in the future.

The past is what we’ve bred from,
the present is what is done now,
and the future is what is passed on
to those who will carry on."


_Joan Gordon

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Mike1975

It feels really awkward being alone here defending Yorkshire Terriers.
I feel alone in a "Yorkshire Terrier" forum with thousands of members.

This is really sad and makes me wonder what the future of this breed will be...

You are not alone. The standard is very important - how can it not be as it describes that unique breed which ever breed it is. And I agree about the coat color and texture being of prime importance to the YT.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by Mike1975

It feels really awkward being alone here defending Yorkshire Terriers.
I feel alone in a "Yorkshire Terrier" forum with thousands of members.

This is really sad and makes me wonder what the future of this breed will be...

You're not alone.


Here is an excerpt from the woman from whom I obtained Teddy, she just wrote me today:


"Hello, Thank you so much for this information on Teddy’s progress; I am grateful for your kind words, this has been 30+ years of careful breeding for temperament as well as looks. I live near Wales where there are puppy farms churning out loads of big Yorkies with long noses, droopy ears and light coloured coats so most of his ancestors have won in the Ring; I will not export my dogs for a lot of money just knowingly produce loving pets for people to enjoy. I was born in Yorkshire and just adore the correct type which I remember as being on the Streets all those years ago."


It is important to me, as a pet owner, to see that breeders and the show ring alike, conform to the historical standards of the YT.


As far as parti-YT, I do agree that they shouldn't be considered as anything other than a Yorkie because, based on genetics, this just doesn't make any sense. However, maybe they should be referred to as non-standard?


I don't know, I have no real argument for or against the parti, in particular, but did want to let you know that you weren't alone in your passion in sustaining the historical confirmation of the breed

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Mike1975

It feels really awkward being alone here defending Yorkshire Terriers.
I feel alone in a "Yorkshire Terrier" forum with thousands of members.

This is really sad and makes me wonder what the future of this breed will be...

You definitely are not alone. I wouldn't buy from a breeder who promoted colors because I want a classic looking yorkie from a breeder who wants to preserve the breed. I dont believe these are natural color variations either, I think they trace back to "oops" breedings of yorkie to other breeds.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

I understand your feelings and your passion.. however I believe you are missing the point. We do NOT want to change the standard. We all LOVE the standard, traditional yorkshire Terrier.. many of us have these stunning beautiful dogs and would not want to change them in any way. To me, a beautiful, correct blue/gold yorkie is the most stunning creature there is.

That said, we believe there is Room for the parti yorkshire terrier, and the golds and the chocolates.. they are NOT standard but that doesn't make them NOT yorkshire terriers.

I am in the process of writing standards for the "non standard" yorkshire Terrier colors so they can be shown in the rare breed shows.. we want to group them together, so they can show together.. allow the standard, traditional yorkshire terrier to show on it's own, and the non standard colors to show against it..

We DON'T want to touch the original standard.. as for the "off colors" we use the same Yorkie standard as is written now for character, size, structure .. the entire thing Except coat color.. that is where we go into specific color varieties for the other colors..

We believe there IS a way to work together with the people who are passionate about keeping the standard for the Yorkshire Terrier intact. The facts are that the Parti Yorkies and the other color varieties are here to stay. We would rather see good, solid representations of the yorkie by getting them in the ring, and get good solid breeders behind them working towards a goal and keep them out of the "back yards".

Thanks for listening and keeping an open mind.

Diana