Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4439505)

Before "professional breeders" devote years and years of studying pedigrees and lines of dogs, and learning what lines will work well with each other to produce puppies that exemplfy the breed of dog they are devoted to preserving, as well as all the genetic issues that can be brought into play when such careful and thoughtful planning goes into breeding two dogs, the last thing we ask ourselves is, "Will this litter that is PLANNED so carefully and lovingly, be worth the life of my bitch?", because it could easily cost her that. An emergency spay to terminate this unplanned litter, would have certainly been the best choice for your Yorkie, but I can see from your post your feelings definately are with the puppies and not the best interest or safety of the momma....."unusual hybrids are quite popular.....the breed is supposedly valuable.....". are I will pray for your unfortunate little Yorkie, that she survives this "misalliance", and that the babies that are being produced will at the very least, be healthy and survive the whelp. "Yorkies for Dummies" is an excellent book that is required reading for Yorkie owners. Far above the excitment of all the cute and wonderful goodies available for puppies, you should be preparing YOURSELF with a solid, working knowledge base about what is about to happen to your momma, her babies, and what YOUR responsibilities are going to be in this misadventure. The very first thing you need to know, is when a female is in heat. That happens about every 6 months, starting at age 6-8 months. Please educate yourself, as I suspect you have planned to become a "breeder", and because you got your intact female before you educated yourself in the minimum required principles and ethics of breeding, and she quickly got ahead of your learning curve, you and she and a litter of unplanned babies are now actually facing a very risky and unknown future. Learning very hard lessons, often heartbreaking lessons, is part of building a solid foundation for any person's development in their choice of adventures. For ethical breeders, breeders with integrity and accountability, and responsibility for what they are producing, we MUST remember to do NO harm first, and that it all about the puppies we are choosing to produce, puppies that should be representative of the breed we are breeding. Mother Nature will take care of producing all the unfortunate "misalliances", and they will hopefully end up with loving families and not in pounds and rescues or dying on the highways, starving in ditches in the cold and rain.....THAT is Mother Nature's way.....professional breeders have to possess the direction, the CONTROL, the love and devotion to their breed of choice, to make certain that every puppy they produce has a future, and is a template for the breed standard of the breed they are. As a responsible, ethical breeder, knowing the consequences of unplanned breedings on the bitch as well as the litter, is the guiding force that makes decisions about what we must do with our breeders.....terminating unplanned and unresearched hook ups with strange dogs of different breeds or pedigrees, is not something that is done lightheartedly, but must be an option for the safety and well being of the bitch that outsmarted her human that is supposed to be in charge and responsible for her well being.

Originally Posted by Clairewijay (Post 4439516)

You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4439525)

You were a negligent owner, now you are a breeder. You've been given good advice and I suspect you will need more before long. I'm not sure you want to give up just like that?

Originally Posted by Clairewijay (Post 4439516)

You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439532)

I am glad member David did not come here looking for advice when he found out his new dog was pregnant.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...rkie-pups.html

for those not aware 4.6kg is close to 10.25 lbs.

While breeding is not for me or to be taken lightly, I also feel that unless the vet thinks the mom is too unhealthy to carry a litter than aborting several puppies because they have not bred to better the breed is cruel.

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439538)

Yorkie Talk has a lot of great members and it does have a lot to offer, but at times it can be a cruel place:(, fortunately though it's not the only place where one can go to find good advice. I hope you stay because I would love to see how the puppies turn out, but if you don't I will understand why.

Originally Posted by Clairewijay (Post 4439516)

You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum

Originally Posted by magicgenie (Post 4439575)

I'm an experieced breeder and I rely A LOT on veterinarians to get my girls safely through all kinds of whelping situations. Supplies are not a big deal--lots of clean towels and bedding, alcohol and iodine for disinfecting; supplies are cheap and easy. More important, especially for an inexperienced breeder, is to have a good veterinarian available.
In the OP's case, being inexperienced and with a rather unpredictable cross-breeding situation, I think planning in advance to have the pups born in a hospital with a veterinarian available to assist is particularly important. The OP has my best wishes. Personally, I would have had the pregnancy aborted and my precious pet spayed, but let's do what we can to get everyone safely through the actual circumatances.
Best to all!:)

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4439572)

That person adopted the dog pregnant. It did not get pregnant in there care.

Originally Posted by Clairewijay (Post 4439516)

You have made a lot of assumptions about me and I dislike your attitude. I do not intend to be a breeder. You have no idea how this dog came into my possession. As Buddhists we do not kill so stop imposing your values on me. By supplies I meant medical not cute accessories. I don't want to be part of this forum

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439632)

LOL what difference does that make how the dog got pregnant:confused::confused::confused:, the current situation is what we are addressing and the potential outcome which is an unplanned pregnancy with a dog of another breed. I know this is a yorkie site so it is understandable that most want to breed yorkies with only yorkies but at times when that does not happen it can wind up being an wonderful outcome. Pet owners often think with their heart like David did not like a pro breeder who would abort a mixed puppy even though they would make good pets. As long as the pregnant dog is large enough and healthy with the proper care and vet advice she should be able to deliver her puppies as well as any other pregnant female does.

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4439661)

You know Donna it is a crap shoot , breeding mismatched if you will, you have no blinking idea what is behind the two dogs involved. You for sure have not done the breed specific heatlh tests before breeding. So what are you actually bringing into this world, on the backs of future puppy owners, and mayhap the life of your bitch.

Are you or she going to be financially responsible for any future health genetic defects?

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4439661)

You know Donna it is a crap shoot , breeding mismatched if you will, you have no blinking idea what is behind the two dogs involved. You for sure have not done the breed specific heatlh tests before breeding. So what are you actually bringing into this world, on the backs of future puppy owners, and mayhap the life of your bitch.

Are you or she going to be financially responsible for any future health genetic defects?

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4439667)

You were the one who brought it up and were using it to compare stuff and they are two totally different situations. One is owner negligence and one is someone rescuing poorly cared for dogs. There is very much a difference.

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439680)

in the real world outside of the show ring millions of mixed and purebred dogs are born every year with no prior genetic screening and like in life a percentage of those will have some type of health problems but most will not. Oddly enough when I got health insurance for Lola I was charged less because she is a mixed breed. I was told that mixed breeds have less health problems. My past three yorkies were from breeders that health tested, two died by age 9, from health related problems, one from a genetic disorder that we treated him for since about age three, the other one as much as I hate to say it, had a lot of emotional problems along with an extremely sensitive stomach. So IMHO it's all often a crap shoot and regardless whether you buy from a breeder that health tests or from a litter like the OP will have you best be prepared for whatever comes your way in expenses.

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439683)

I guess if you don't get it, you just don't get it, but I will try one more time. I am talking about the situation about the dog being pregnant NOW and the impending litter. So why would the way the dogs I am speaking about got pregnant matter on how the litter turned out. To me the situation is exactly the same, two dogs non health tested with the female carrying a mixed litter. Puppies born from either that litter or any of the thousands of ones born this year could have health risks.

Buying a puppy, a rescue, an adult dog is always a risk you never know what can happen, it can get stepped on it can fall off something, it could jump up and hit it's head so everyone should be prepared for expenses.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4439710)

A lot of dogs do have health issues that are genetic go hang out in the sick and injured section or even a vets office. It's a myth that mixes are healthier. Just being a show breeder does not make you a good breeder and I'm sure some of the tests that can be done now where not available then.

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439722)

so then I guess you are agreeing with me it is crap shoot


and I guess million dollar companies price their policies based on myths, not statistical data and studies done by actuarial scientists:D

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4439712)

And I disagree a lot has to do with how it happened in my opinion. One got somebody else's mess and the other created the mess.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4439723)

You said most dogs with no screening will not get genetic illnesses and thats not true. It is a myth but believe what you want. Insurance company's are always going to be out there to make money so if you want to trust them in that go ahead.

Originally Posted by Clairewijay (Post 4439446)

Hi
A few days after I got my year old Yorkie, she got away from me in the park. I didn't know she was on heat and she had a 'misalliance' with a German Spitz. She is a fairly large Yorkie (4.6kg) but he was a bit bigger than her. I was planning to get an emergency spay but pulled out after a scan confirmed she is definitely carrying 3 or 4 puppies. I just didn't have the heart to kill them. I am now giving her proper antenatal care, but have a few questions. What do I actually need for whelping? The products available are overwhelming me! Any clue what the puppies will be like? The vet has no idea. I am not worried about finding homes as I'm in London, England and unusual hybrids are quite popular. The father is a pedigree stud dog and the breed is supposedly valuable. Wish Lola's puppies were going to be pure Yorkies (she now has a Yorkie boyfriend called Bombi), but I'm sure they'll be beautiful anyway. Any advice gratefully received.

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439736)

It is TRUE that MOST dogs with no genetic testing will have no illnesses. If that was not the case there would hardly be any dogs left in the world, they would have self extinguished themselves by now.

You live in a Yorkie Talk bubble, for every one dog that has a genetic health panel run on their family tree there are hundreds of thousands of others out there that have not, the law of average is in the favor of getting a dog with few problems, if it were not people would stop owning dogs. And the majority of the buying public does not want to pay on average $1,500 to $2,000.00 for a pet.

Of course Insurance companies are out to make money therefore they charge based on risk, like car insurance, young drivers pay more than more experienced ones, drivers with bad records pay more than those with good records, young people with no health issues pay less than older people with heart issues or diabetes, so it's the same with dogs.

Originally Posted by DBlain (Post 4439729)

when I post something I try to explain what forms my opinion so I am still trying to figure this out, please explain how because one person adopted a dog that was pregnant that dog will have a better outcome then the person that's dog got pregnant after they owned it will. Could it be your judgment of how the pregnancy happened that is coloring your opinion on how it will develop. Several of our members have made these type of judgments before only to wind up with egg on their face or chase a new member away.

I guess if you follow that line of thinking a father could say to his daughter that is unwed that she is not going to have as good of a baby as her sister who is married.