New Puppies- Cesarian Delivery

[Yorkiemom1]

How much do the babies weigh? When you are squeezing her nipple, you have to squeeze the mammary gland above the little nipple or you wont get any milk.....You want the babies to continue to try to nurse on momma in order for the milk to come on down, like bjh said.....you are walking the fine line now, making sure they are getting enough from you to keep them from loosing weight and continuing to gain, and letting them get enough nursing from momma to bring her milk down. That is why it is important to give 1cc/oz of body weight every 2 hours to 3 hours....that will be enough nutritional supplement and calories to keep them from fading, and yet allow them to get hungry enough to nurse between feeding from you. Allowing them to be cleaned by momma is vital...the bonding that takes place with that is crucial....and it will stimulate babies to nurse and momma to produce more milk .....it is all a dominoe effect....a balancing act. How much do these babies actually weigh?

[PamperedYorkies]

Originally Posted by bjh

It sounds like they may be getting more milk from the momma. The turning their head away might be because they are full. It is normal for the pups to be squirmy when you pick them up. Do the pups stay with the momma all the time?

Have you tried soaking some dry food and adding goodies to it like scrambled eggs or boiled chicken and rice. I seems like now her appetite would be picking up. It could be she is eating so much of the other stuff that she does not want her regular food. You might even try adding some soaked dry food to her whelping pudding.

Yes, the pups stay with mom all the time, except during supplemental feedings, then they go right back in and she licks them clean and off to sleep they go until the next time.

That's a thought…maybe having too much of the there stuff. She did just get up and get a drink of water on her own. She had not touched water since before the c-section and that's why I was pushing so much the milk mix too. I was surprised that she wasn't more enticed to eat by the canned food, which she LOVED during pregnancy. I will try making some new combinations and see what happens.

Thanks!

[PamperedYorkies]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

How much do the babies weigh? When you are squeezing her nipple, you have to squeeze the mammary gland above the little nipple or you wont get any milk.....You want the babies to continue to try to nurse on momma in order for the milk to come on down, like bjh said.....you are walking the fine line now, making sure they are getting enough from you to keep them from loosing weight and continuing to gain, and letting them get enough nursing from momma to bring her milk down. That is why it is important to give 1cc/oz of body weight every 2 hours to 3 hours....that will be enough nutritional supplement and calories to keep them from fading, and yet allow them to get hungry enough to nurse between feeding from you. Allowing them to be cleaned by momma is vital...the bonding that takes place with that is crucial....and it will stimulate babies to nurse and momma to produce more milk .....it is all a dominoe effect....a balancing act. How much do these babies actually weigh?

That makes sense. So I shouldn't be aiming to fully satisfy them, only limit their intake to 1cc/lb?

They are currently 4.5 (G) and 4.2 (B) oz.

[PamperedYorkies]

Thoughts on this growth chart?

Yorkshire Terrier Information Center | Yorkie Growth Chart

Based on my pups' parents and grandparents, I wouldn't expect them to turn out so large???

The largest was grandma @ 7lbs.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by PamperedYorkies

That makes sense. So I shouldn't be aiming to fully satisfy them, only limit their intake to 1cc/lb?

They are currently 4.5 (G) and 4.2 (B) oz.

1cc per OUNCE!!!! They are weighing a little over 4 oz .....I would give them 4cc every three hours....that way, they will be going to momma for suckling...continue to weigh them.....NOT right after they have eaten, but when they are due to be fed.....and if they are not LOOSING weight, stick with that for a day....if they do not GAIN weight in 24 hours, they are NOT getting enough from momma and you need to try feeding every 2.5 hours, or go up to 4.5 - 5cc per puppy, every three hours.... Keep trying to get mommas milk to come down, with puppies suckling and you "milking".....but newborns should NOT be loosing weight.....you have to supplement them with feedings to keep that from happening.

[PamperedYorkies]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

1cc per OUNCE!!!! They are weighing a little over 4 oz .....I would give them 4cc every three hours....that way, they will be going to momma for suckling...continue to weigh them.....NOT right after they have eaten, but when they are due to be fed.....and if they are not LOOSING weight, stick with that for a day....if they do not GAIN weight in 24 hours, they are NOT getting enough from momma and you need to try feeding every 2.5 hours, or go up to 4.5 - 5cc per puppy, every three hours.... Keep trying to get mommas milk to come down, with puppies suckling and you "milking".....but newborns should NOT be loosing weight.....you have to supplement them with feedings to keep that from happening.

OMG…I'm braindead. Yes, I meant 1 cc per ounce. Sorry about that.
Ok, I'll make adjustments to do it this way, not overfeeding and weighing them right before feeding instead of in between.
For me to milk the mom, is it ok to bring her out of her pen and box as long as pups are kept warm?

Thanks

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by PamperedYorkies

OMG…I'm braindead. Yes, I meant 1 cc per ounce. Sorry about that.
Ok, I'll make adjustments to do it this way, not overfeeding and weighing them right before feeding instead of in between.
For me to milk the mom, is it ok to bring her out of her pen and box as long as pups are kept warm?

Thanks

Yes....but you shouldnt have to....just put her on her side and gently squeeze her mammary glands, with a downward type motion..... kind of like you were trying to get the very last drop of ketchup out of the McDonald package!

[PamperedYorkies]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Yes....but you shouldnt have to....just put her on her side and gently squeeze her mammary glands, with a downward type motion..... kind of like you were trying to get the very last drop of ketchup out of the McDonald package!

I asked mostly for my benefit. I have a bad lower back, so bending over the pen for any more than a moment gets fairly uncomfortable.

In any case, I checked her. Took about 3 'squeezes' to get a full size drop, but I did get 1 at each nipple, all milk-colored. This is better than last time I checked when I was getting a tiny clear drop in about 3 nipples only.

I assume there is still improvement to be had?
Is there a good chance that her milk will fully come in?

Thanks

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by PamperedYorkies

I asked mostly for my benefit. I have a bad lower back, so bending over the pen for any more than a moment gets fairly uncomfortable.

In any case, I checked her. Took about 3 'squeezes' to get a full size drop, but I did get 1 at each nipple, all milk-colored. This is better than last time I checked when I was getting a tiny clear drop in about 3 nipples only.

I assume there is still improvement to be had?
Is there a good chance that her milk will fully come in?

Thanks

Sorry about your bad back....I too can not get up and dopwn and bend over like I used to, so my whelping crates are custom made and they are waist high!! No bending over!!! As far as the milk coming down, yes this is good news and she should start producing more and more as the babies suckle....just keep doing what you are dpoing....good job.....momma is being kept well hydrated with liquids, which is more important for the first few days than eating food...her appetite will start to pick up as the days go by....you may have to continue to hand feed her...they love to be pampered and showered with attention!!! Mine do anyway!!

[PamperedYorkies]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Sorry about your bad back....I too can not get up and dopwn and bend over like I used to, so my whelping crates are custom made and they are waist high!! No bending over!!! As far as the milk coming down, yes this is good news and she should start producing more and more as the babies suckle....just keep doing what you are dpoing....good job.....momma is being kept well hydrated with liquids, which is more important for the first few days than eating food...her appetite will start to pick up as the days go by....you may have to continue to hand feed her...they love to be pampered and showered with attention!!! Mine do anyway!!

Yes! Funny you should mention waist-high crates! I was just telling my husband today that if/when I do this again, I'm going to have to evaluate the possibility of getting the pen up higher. I've done it with other things in the house, including the washer and dryer…why not this?

Great! It's really good to know things are looking up. What a first-time experience this has been so far!

Thanks for your support!

[bjh]

How are you, the momma and babies doing today? I hope things are going better. Have you had the pups tails docked yet?

[PamperedYorkies]

Originally Posted by bjh

How are you, the momma and babies doing today? I hope things are going better. Have you had the pups tails docked yet?

Good morning! We are all well, thanks for asking. Well, mom and pups are doing well. This whole lack of sleep is catching up to me! It had been 8 years since I didn't get at least 5 hours of sleep straight! LOL.

On puppy weights…It hasn't been a full 24 hours since I switched my weigh-in to be right before feedings, so I can't make a full correlation to the time when I started to notice the pups feeding more on mom, but in roughly 21 hours, they have gained 0.2 oz each…yay. We still have quite a bit to catch up, but they're gaining and that's good

Momma is definitely feeling more like herself and is eating more and wanting to come out to play. So, we're trying to work with that because she's supposed to be completely restricted for 10 days for surgery recovery (she's extremely active and agile so she likes to jump and run!) It will be tough for her, but we're almost half way there. After that, I can give her short breaks to play a little in the room and get her daily dose of play time and snuggles.

I do have a question for everyone…she's been digging up her bedding and will create these pockets with it, almost like mini caves, puts the pups in there and then lays separately from them. Is this normal? Is it a sign of anything being wrong? She does let them 'in' for feedings and sometimes just for a snuggle, but a few times I've watched her do this and it makes me wonder…

Puppies are looking and feeling much stronger and sturdier too. And so, with this in mind, I did go ahead with tail docking because we were on the verge of missing that tiny window of time to get it done. But I am debating dewclaws. My other dogs have theirs and I agree it's a pain to keep those short, but I just don't know. After doing tails, I'm not in much of a mood to do anything else to those pups, and the breed standard doesn't call for it, so I'm leaning towards leaving those in.

Any thoughts on dewclaws???

Thanks

[bjh]

I am glad everyone is doing better. Did you dock the tails yourself. Honestly you should have done the dewclaws at the same time. I would recommend having the dewclaws removed but I would not wait past tomorrow to have it done.

It is not unusually for the mom to make a nest for the babies. For my whelping box I use a bottomless wooden box that my husband made and I sit the box on top of the bedding so the mom can't dig and accidentally bury a pup in the bedding. I put a small fleece blanket in the whelping box so the mom can cover them with that if she chooses to.

As the pups get older they will eat less often and the mom will spend more time away from them. When the pups are old enough to start walking you will need to make it where the mom can come and go from the pen the pups are in. I use a board to divide the x-pen so mom can just jump over the board to get to her pups when she wants to.

[PamperedYorkies]

Originally Posted by bjh

I am glad everyone is doing better. Did you dock the tails yourself. Honestly you should have done the dewclaws at the same time. I would recommend having the dewclaws removed but I would not wait past tomorrow to have it done.

It is not unusually for the mom to make a nest for the babies. For my whelping box I use a bottomless wooden box that my husband made and I sit the box on top of the bedding so the mom can't dig and accidentally bury a pup in the bedding. I put a small fleece blanket in the whelping box so the mom can cover them with that if she chooses to.

As the pups get older they will eat less often and the mom will spend more time away from them. When the pups are old enough to start walking you will need to make it where the mom can come and go from the pen the pups are in. I use a board to divide the x-pen so mom can just jump over the board to get to her pups when she wants to.

Yes, I did the tails myself. My breeder is still unavailable. I chickened out of the dewclaws. I don't think my clamp is small enough to get in behind the joint. I've heard some do it with a nail clipper? What's your method?

Ok, I won't panic about the digging. She's not digging all the way down to the bottom bedding, she's digging up the fleece blanket on top. I had a different blanket there, it was more of a cross between a towel and a rug. I removed that and put the fleece in thinking maybe she didn't like that other one. Then she started digging the fleece as well. I'm going to check to see if I have a smaller size one too. I just get scared because I've read so much about so many things and all the stuff that can go wrong. Somewhere I read that when there's something wrong with a puppy, the mom will push them aside and turn her back on the pup…so…I'm so thankful I have some experienced people to ask questions to when I start to panic Thank you all for your responses!

Time to start thinking about what I'll need next. Thanks for the idea of the board to separate the pen. I'm sure momma will need a mommy break once in a while

[bjh]

If you are not comfortable removing dewclaws then it would be best to either skip doing them or let the vet do them. Some of my older yorkies have their front dewclaws and I just keep them trimmed and none have had any problems from them. I just prefer to remove them now.

When I first start raising yorkies I remember having to get up in the middle of the night so often because I would hear a little puppy crying that had got under the bedding and could not find momma. Once I started using the bottomless boxes I did not have that worry. Some mommas like to dig more than others. It sounds like you are keeping a good eye on your momma and her babies.