Until you're a breeder and walk in our shoes, all you have are opinions!

Experience is a far more valuable resource than one who merely studies a topic. Voracious reading on a topic doesnt make one an expert.

Pat,

I believe that a reproductive specialist is a vet that specializes in male/female dogs (many types of animals) that cannot conceive a litter of puppies without help.. I do not know how different it would be from a regular vet that can do alot of the same test and procedures? Maybe Irene can answer that!

Melanie

LMAO .... your not alone in the stupid club Pat!

Well, I guess I'm in the stupid club too then! :p Honestly, I had heard the term "theriogenologist/breeding specialist" before coming here, but did not have much of a clue as to what one was...despite shocking some that I was a breeder and had never heard of such!

EXCELLENT post!!!! Anyone can read tons of books, look up tons of information but until you actually do it...you really have NO idea what it is like.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
I can understand the quest for constantly new knowledge, I just don't see the reasoning behind continuously questioning and putting down the breeding practices of others. I look at some breeders and question why they do one thing, but it's only because it's a different way of approaching it compared to my own. I think if we all did A B C in that order eeeevery time...we would all have clones dogs like that Snuppy dog on Time magazine. Every breeder is different and does differently...and you cannot please EVERYBODY...obviously!

I agree...after reading all the info on here...I know I am a novice and for me....I would not want to take the chance with one of my pets...

Experience is by far more valuable than any book....but all things in life are like that...JMHO...I do realize everyne has to start somewhere, and tat is a personal decision each person has to make....

I'm through with this...but if you noticed, I didn't get really involved. This is a horse beaten to death, brought back to life and beaten again. We all know where everyone stands on this. Why discuss it again? No one can change anyone else's mind! Why go there? This is really sad and I don't understand it anymore. Don't fall for certain posts!!!!!

My vet is very fluent and experienced (that's important right?) in all aspects of canine reproduction which include but are NOT limited to the following:

AI, Surgical AI, Genetics, Infertility/Reproduction Failure, Pregnancy Loss: Abortions, Reabsorbing, Reproductive Diseases and Infections, Prostate Problems, Pyometra, experience performing c-sections, conception issues and successions. Here are just a few of the transcripts from seminars my vet has given on reproduction. He continues to give them all over the world.

http://www.amchessieclub.org/conception.html

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1224

http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0100.htm

I couldn't imagine breeding without the services of a specialist. Breeding is serious and shouldn't be taken lightly. Bringing life into this world surely deserves the assistance of a specialist is my feeling!
I am not going to ask you why you don't feel someone knowledgeable in repro is NOT important. To me it's not important what you do or don't do. I would rather share what I know and hope that I can help those that need it and want it. I am a tad disappointed as to how this thread has turned out because I don't think these questions about "My Vet" are sincere. If they are that's fine and I'm always happy to share. I hope you all are 'smarter' now!

I do think it is very important that your vet be experienced in this area as well! (Mine is.) I missed where questions about your vet was asked. I know I for one did not challenge your vet...if it came accross that way, I am sorry, it was not the way any of my comments were meant. I do feel that knowledge in the areas of genetics/repro are extremely important...afterall, that is what breeding is, isn't it? I was just wondering why is was looked down upon if a breeder did NOT use someone who was STRICTLY a reproductive specialist.

Who said that? I always say, this is what I am comfortable with and I have YET to show that I've passed judgement on someone whos breeding practices DO NOT mirror mine. So I dont' know how I can be misunderstood. Things were taken personal and should not have been.

You are right. I was being challanged about my vet and I am not sure why. I am not intersted in challenging others, I am always open to hearing others opinions and learning a thing or two.

Melanie~ You have the other option that I described then.... if there is not a reproductive specialist near you and you cannot move your breeding program to be close to one, you have found a vet that is good, maybe even great with breeding programs. This is the next best thing. I know you agree that the very best care is vital in any yorkie breeding program. No one can really argue that point honestly.

Irene~ I loved this thread and thank you for starting it. I learned a lot. Sometimes people like to disagree just to disagree despite the obvious illogic of it. There is no stopping it. You are my kind of breeder. Everything you have ever posted has been well reasoned and had sound rationales behind it. I still want to see the study on early s/n....haha...but we respect each other even when we disagree and that is what is important on a forum like this.

A reproductive specialist helps in ALL aspects of a breeding program from Assessing Dogs for potential breeders, Breeding Management, Management of Pregnancy and Whelping, Infertility in the Bitch, Assessment of Male dog fertility, Prostate Disease - Diagnosis and Treatment, Ovulation timing, C-sections, Pharmaceuticals used in Canine Theriogenology, etc., etc. They train the general practiioners in the areas of canine reproduction. Why wouldn't you want to use one if you are breeding yorkies, especially?

As far as criticizing my opinions because I am not a breeder, I can only say that I have never claimed to be an expert, but I am entitled to my opinions.

The word canine theriogenologist was never used on this forum until I used it. Many breeders did not even know what it was. If because of my bringing the existence of these specialists to their attention it saves the life of even one momma or one pup then I have done good!


Don't you agree? :confused:

there's nothing wrong with using a regular vet at all. i did for a very long time. i just got lucky that a repro. spec set up her clinic 2 miles from me. otherwise i'd be using my old faithful vet that i always did. you do have to trust what your vet tells you. and i'm sure they are all alot different in what they do and how they do it. mine does not promote scheduled c-secs unless it becomes nessesery. i'm sure she would do one for me if i insisted, but it is up to the breeder and all we can do is take our vets advice. after all they are the one's who went to school and have the degree. not us. but seasoned breeders probably know just as much about reproduction as the vets do if truth be known and we surely do know our own dogs better than anyone.

I said "If I were a breeder, I would use one or I wouldn't breed" That is just me.

I also suggested that if you want to breed and you don't have one near you then, imo, you should do one of the following:
1. MOVE to be close to one
2. Don't Breed
3. Find the best, most experienced vet in the area who has other breeders, preferably yorkie breeders, as clients. Good advice...no?

This is just my opinion as a breed fancier and yorkie owner and someone wth lots of experience with different vets...lol.... :eek:

As a purchaser of a puppy from a breeder, I would want to know that my puppy, his mother, father and littermates received the very best care and the best start in life because that is what I will provide for the rest of his/her life.

For what that's worth. :)

this post is rather arrogant; to state you brought "therigenologist" to light is rather assuming and appears youre stating that most breeders on this forum are inept and had no knowlege of their existence. Most breeders and vets would refer to them as "reproduction specialist" as they know them to be just that!

Let's just move on. THis was not supposed to turn 'personal'. :(

You are correct, you have not passed judgement on anyone else's breeding practices, at least not that I have seen...very respectable. I for one, do not question your practices or your vet's, because if for no other reason, it's none of my business. You seem to have alot of success in what you do, which should be enough to speak for itself for anyone. I have learned alot from you and your posts, both here and elsewhere on this forum.
Yes, things were taken personally that should not have been. It is easy thing to do when your outlook and comments in one thread reappear in another time and time again...doesn't appear to the naked I as if it is directed at you, unless you are that individual.
I for one am done here...if this thread doesn't get locked before I get done typing. Hopefully everyone can get back to discussing the original post topic...if anyone can even remember what is was. God knows the "OP" has long since moved on...if she is smart.

Robbie...very well said :thumbup:

Kimberley...lemon in my tea, if you don't mind.

Irene you have done a wonderful job with this thread concerning c-sections! If it has helped one breeder or prospective breeder it was worth it!

Kim I completely agree with you.. Like I mentioned earlier on "YOU HAVE TO TRUST YOUR VET IF NOT FIND ANOTHER ONE!" That will make or break your breeding program! If you do NOT use a vet than shame on you and quit breeding! If you are a breeder that thinks you know it all you should retire from breeding! JMHO!!!!

For those of you that do not like this thread than move on!! Please let the ones of us that are enjoying it keep enjoying it..

You are right! If one person learns from what I share then that makes me happy. I know I learned from this post. Getting an emergency back up plan should the power be out or something major.

Thanks for the positive post Mel!! :)

I totally agree with you Kimberley - I can post on common sense things but when it comes to actual breeding - I stay away - (unless it's about breeding tinies then I tend to speak up :D )..

...Anyone can Read, Copy & Paste ...but it's no substitute for actual experience. I sure enjoy reading the posts from those that DO breed....I've learned so much about it from you all.

Great Reading!!
 

2 yrs ago I came across this website:

http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dpregnan...sible%20causes

I have it in my favorites and keep a binder of 'whelping stuff' with the stages of Labor and other info from this site in the binder. Hope some find this helpful. I sure did!!

I looked at your link and have to say if I were a breeder I would for SURE save that one - there is a ton of information on that site....wow.

In most cases, scaring/adhesions that are NOT calcified will not be clearly evident on X-ray. That is the same in humans...we can see some signs such as looking at an x-ray and seeing a puppy that is in a certain odd position and no other skeleton is evident to cause the oddity. There is evidence that something is there, but not definitive for adhesions.
The adhesions in my opinion that we are really discussing is NOT the scar on the skin from the C-section incision.. That is almost cosmetic to describe it as small or non-noticeable. That also will NOT affect the delivery from the internal organs. Those internal adhesions that cause problems are not always a surgeons fault..Some dogs as well as some humans have certain scarring tendencies-I am one of the humans and EVERY surgery causes adhesions in me-
I have known some moms who could not deliver not due to surgical adhesions but old uterine infections that were successfully treated and did not require a hysterectomy..

specialist
 

If I was starting out, I would consult a specialist about the genetics for a good foundation.
As to AI, Pregnancy loss, reabsorption, infection, pyrometa prostate ect..I have not encounter these issues in 33 yrs.

You see, I am so old school...if it does not happen naturally, I figure there is a reason. I am not interested in breeding a male/female who needs AI. Most fertility problems are passed on to future stock. I do realize there are many good reasons to AI..but not for me..and I would only AI a tip top champion. If any stud will not breed, then he is a pet, not a stud dog and he is placed as a pet. Some may perfer AI to prevent STD's..but that has never been a problem for me.

If a bitch does not concieve with two breedings from two different males, then she is also a pet, not a brood bitch and placed as a pet. In all my years of breeding I have had only two bitches not become pregnant by the second breeding. They were lovely girls, but my world did not stop because they did not conceive.

I have never had a bitch with pyrometra. They are bred for perhaps 3 or 4 breedings, then spayed. I have been so fortunate as to never having a bitch with any type infection.
I have had two with Eclampsia, but was able to prevent it in future litters for the mom.
As to performing c=sections..I think a specialist would be nice, but I would be more comfortable with my long time vet..I know him.

Sound stock is vital and need all tests possible. I am in no way anti-specialist. Thank you for posting what they do..and if I ever encountered these problems I would consider one.

Kim, I so agree. I don't breed but only know what my wonderful vet practice has
told others.

I agree with V. :thumbup: I'm not a breeder so I won't post about breeding. But I have read this thread and I find it very interesting.

Always wait for what you have to say
 

Pat, you are a VERY smart lady.

Everyone does what they think is best.

IMO Any female that needs a C-section will be spayed. I see no reason to repeat a C-section unless the Bitch is of irreplaceable quality.

I also agree with Pat on the Reproduction specialist. Not that there is anything wrong with using one if they are close to you. I just don't think they are needed for normal breeding.

Bump!!
 

:thumbup:

:thumbup: :thumbup:
i do use a reproductive speacialist, because I got very lucky in finding her so close to my home, and do I agree with all of your post.