Is my baby pregnant?

[gemy]

Originally Posted by dawn27

Yes there are other options, not that I would ever agree with it but that is a discussion she needs to have with her vet. If all the fact are disclosed they will guide her to make the right choice for her and her gal. Nothing anyone says here in a demeaning and rude manner will help her to make the right decision. She need fact based options not the opinions or rude comments about her behavior or what someone thinks her intention were.

She need information from people who care and who want to help in order to help her to make the right choice. or to help her get prepared for a whelp. Which ever she desided to do.

And that is what I posted to her. If you want these pups do x/y/ and z if not get an immediate spay. Please note I did not say what I thought she should do, other than in another post to another person.

And the right choice surely needs to weigh the potential for multiple sires, at the minimum one sire she does not know the health history of, and her dam, which presumably she did not do any pre breeding testing on. So bally hoo we have two dogs untested, one of unknown parentage, both of unknown health history. Wow what a wonderfull start to a great breeding for disaster for the pups..and if they survive the whelp and raising for the poor un-suspecting future owners!!!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by dawn27

You have no right to tell anyone how to care for their own animals. We all choose to do so in different ways and that does not make us a bad person for choosing a different way than what YOU choose to do. So, shame on you for being a dictator.

Do YOU condone puppy mills???? THEY choose to do what THEY think is right.....


The fact is that she is more than likely pregnant and your scare tactics and your opinion of what may or may not have happened are way out of line. You dont know this person and if you are not here to help this pup and the OP get prepared for a whelp and welcoming a litter of puppies into the world than maybe you should go harass someone else. You are only making things worse. Whats done is done regardless of how it happened. She said it was not intentional so who are you to say otherwise?

1)This is NOT an "opinion" of what "may or may not" have happened....we have been told EXACTLY what happened: the intact female, in heat, was put outside where ahe was exposed to at least one male dog.
2)This is NOT a happy occasion, all warm and fuzzy, welcoming a brand new litter of bouncing babies into this wonderful world where all is wonderful and right.
3)"Whats done is done".......this is nothing but a cop out for completely unacceptable behavior from an owner that we would hope would be a RESPONSIBLE pet owner!

Any person that would want to project her image of being a caring, responsible, ethical, honest breeder to the people that come on this forum and read and learn from these posts, that would white wash over the irresponsible action of putting a female in heat outside to be bred by any male that is drawn in by the scent, excusing the action YET AGAIN by chanting that glorified mantra, "what is done is done", is missing the opportunity to TEACH and correct someone that you should NOT be encouraging to just sit back and accept this unwarrented and unjust assault on her female. This is EXACTLY how puppy mills are born!!! You stand there and look at people throwing dogs together, breeding dogs indescriminately with absolutely NO knowledge of genetics, NO knowledge of pedigrees, not even the knowledge how to responsibily care for an intact female, NO health testing, NOTHING, and you project an aura of acceptance!!!!! Nothing has been done in preparation to RESPONSIBLY breed two dogs, and welcome a HEALTHY, genetically sound litter of babies into the world. YOUR answer to the solution is, "what is done is done" so be nice and dont say anything that will actually HELP this person LEARN and help her bitch perhaps survive an ill advised breeding, along with those innocent little babies....NO!!!! I will NOT stand down and accept this as "ooooooooohh, what is done is done" just like I do NOT advocate puppy mills and any other type of abuse to our dogs. Responsible, ETHICAL breeders are here, TRYING to teach people HOW to do this right! This case is NOT a done deal.....she could have the pregnancy terminated, rather than subjecting her dog to the possibility of dying, trying to have these puppies. What if she has a litter where they are all malformed....cleft pallets, hearts and livers and kidneys that are genetically inferior.....WHO is going to get stuck trying to save those babies??? Whos heart is going to be broken because they have fallen in love with a puppy that is doomed to die an early death??? YOU may be able to watch this scene play over and over and over, and YOU may be all sweet and nice and accepting, but I will not advocate or encourage acceptance of unacceptable behavior from ANYONE breeding dogs. If she or anyone else wants to breed dogs, fine....do it right! Learn what needs to be learned, read hundreds of books and attend shows and go to classes on how the breed dogs in order to at the very least, maintain the breed standard....,,LEARN from breeders that are willing to stop you in your tracks and tell you the TRUTH! Get over the "hurt feelings".....dont be cajoled and patted and coddled and enabled and led down a path of destruction as a breeder, listening to "whats done is done".....those words are nothing less than the devils keys to the gates to Hell.....That is what should be painted on a huge sign, that is hung on every puppy mill and on every BYB in this country....acceptance of what is sooooooo wrong is NOT the answer. Any "breeder" that honestly believes that people should not be told the truth, should not be corrected and guided, out of fear that you will "offend" them or "scare" them and drive them away, is not a breeder that is concerned for the direction and future of this or any other breed. This post is going to offend the "kinder, gentler" people that believe, like you do, that anyone can do anything they want to with their own animals, and it should be acceptable to people that KNOW better....that "what is done is done"...let it run its course and smile and make the best of it....cry and weep when your bitch dies or all the babies die, and try to think you did what was best.....but know this....indescriminate breeding of dogs is NOT what is best....not for the person doing it, not for the puppies, not for the bitch, and not for the unsuspecting people you sell those possibly genetically inferior babies to.

[dawn27]

Im sorry Gemy only a portion of that was in reply to your post. Most of what I said was in general to the mood of the thread. I was not directing that toward you.

[lynzy420]

OP there are some seasoned members here on YT. You came in at a time when we've seemed to be deluged with "careless" breeders.

While the info. here and the replies may seem to be harsh at times remember we are a community of Yorkie lovers and circumstances like yours are hard for most of us are hard to accept. It seems that you came here with all the right words etc., to push every single button there is that is bad about breeding...I don't know if that is intentional or not, but at the end of the day you have to understand that we are not vets and like a child or yourself you need to seek a vets advice.

The info. you are given here comes from a variety of people, educated, experienced, educated and experienced, professional, laymen, ethical breeders and sadly, there are even unethical breeders amongst us. So gather all your information and take what suits your situation, but understand the majority of us only care about your pup right now.

If you don't know for 100% certainty who/what got your girl pregnant you need to seriously consider an emergency spay, her life can most definitely be in jeopardy. Please read, reread, and read some more threads here, there is a wealth of info here and there are many threads regarding pups that have been in your babies shoes, sadly many times these cases have ended tragically.

I hope you stick around and learn all you can, but most importantly I REALLY HOPE YOU DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS PUP, not for yourself.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by dawn27

Yes, more than likely your girl is pregnant. Start doing research on what you will need in order to provide proper prenatal care to your gal and what is needed to raise a litter of puppies. It wont be easy and hopefully after this experience you will have your gal spayed if that is what you choose to do. But unless you plan on becoming a breeder it may be what is best for your pup in the long run.

As you can clearly see it only takes one time for an in tact male, a few minutes and the opportunity to get an unspayed female who is n heat pregnant.

And so with your response you offer no options, as you should know there are. So she is pregnant so what? Well given the circumstances do you really think you should encourage her to go ahead with this pregnancy And she is a breeder now! Albeit how-ever "accidentally".........

Give advice that covers both sides of the coin, even if you don't believe in the other side.

There are options here for her gal and she should know them, and then ask her vet for their opinion.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

1)This is NOT an "opinion" of what "may or may not" have happened....we have been told EXACTLY what happened: the intact female, in heat, was put outside where ahe was exposed to at least one male dog.
2)This is NOT a happy occasion, all warm and fuzzy, welcoming a brand new litter of bouncing babies into this wonderful world where all is wonderful and right.
3)"Whats done is done".......this is nothing but a cop out for completely unacceptable behavior from an owner that we would hope would be a RESPONSIBLE pet owner!

Any person that would want to project her image of being a caring, responsible, ethical, honest breeder to the people that come on this forum and read and learn from these posts, that would white wash over the irresponsible action of putting a female in heat outside to be bred by any male that is drawn in by the scent, excusing the action YET AGAIN by chanting that glorified mantra, "what is done is done", is missing the opportunity to TEACH and correct someone that you should NOT be encouraging to just sit back and accept this unwarrented and unjust assault on her female. This is EXACTLY how puppy mills are born!!! You stand there and look at people throwing dogs together, breeding dogs indescriminately with absolutely NO knowledge of genetics, NO knowledge of pedigrees, not even the knowledge how to responsibily care for an intact female, NO health testing, NOTHING, and you project an aura of acceptance!!!!! Nothing has been done in preparation to RESPONSIBLY breed two dogs, and welcome a HEALTHY, genetically sound litter of babies into the world. YOUR answer to the solution is, "what is done is done" so be nice and dont say anything that will actually HELP this person LEARN and help her bitch perhaps survive an ill advised breeding, along with those innocent little babies....NO!!!! I will NOT stand down and accept this as "ooooooooohh, what is done is done" just like I do NOT advocate puppy mills and any other type of abuse to our dogs. Responsible, ETHICAL breeders are here, TRYING to teach people HOW to do this right! This case is NOT a done deal.....she could have the pregnancy terminated, rather than subjecting her dog to the possibility of dying, trying to have these puppies. What if she has a litter where they are all malformed....cleft pallets, hearts and livers and kidneys that are genetically inferior.....WHO is going to get stuck trying to save those babies??? Whos heart is going to be broken because they have fallen in love with a puppy that is doomed to die an early death??? YOU may be able to watch this scene play over and over and over, and YOU may be all sweet and nice and accepting, but I will not advocate or encourage acceptance of unacceptable behavior from ANYONE breeding dogs. If she or anyone else wants to breed dogs, fine....do it right! Learn what needs to be learned, read hundreds of books and attend shows and go to classes on how the breed dogs in order to at the very least, maintain the breed standard....,,LEARN from breeders that are willing to stop you in your tracks and tell you the TRUTH! Get over the "hurt feelings".....dont be cajoled and patted and coddled and enabled and led down a path of destruction as a breeder, listening to "whats done is done".....those words are nothing less than the devils keys to the gates to Hell.....That is what should be painted on a huge sign, that is hung on every puppy mill and on every BYB in this country....acceptance of what is sooooooo wrong is NOT the answer. Any "breeder" that honestly believes that people should not be told the truth, should not be corrected and guided, out of fear that you will "offend" them or "scare" them and drive them away, is not a breeder that is concerned for the direction and future of this or any other breed. This post is going to offend the "kinder, gentler" people that believe, like you do, that anyone can do anything they want to with their own animals, and it should be acceptable to people that KNOW better....that "what is done is done"...let it run its course and smile and make the best of it....cry and weep when your bitch dies or all the babies die, and try to think you did what was best.....but know this....indescriminate breeding of dogs is NOT what is best....not for the person doing it, not for the puppies, not for the bitch, and not for the unsuspecting people you sell those possibly genetically inferior babies to.

And this is why I love the Keyboard warrior...this is brutal honest truth..Thank you Judy, your passion for these dogs, your ethical breeding shines like a beautiful diamond, I truly admire you.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by gemy

And so with your response you offer no options, as you should know there are. So she is pregnant so what? Well given the circumstances do you really think you should encourage her to go ahead with this pregnancy And she is a breeder now! Albeit how-ever "accidentally".........

Give advice that covers both sides of the coin, even if you don't believe in the other side.

There are options here for her gal and she should know them, and then ask her vet for their opinion.

Gemy, thank you for another great post.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by dawn27

No Taylor that is not what I am saying and I hope that is not the case here. Certain circumstances need to be handled differently if the life of the female is in jeopardy.

No one but the OP really know all the details and again that is something that she need to discuss with her vet. She came here asking about a blood test. Which I have no experience with so did not reply to.

The dog was outside alone for 5 to 10 minutes a bigger dog could have come and don't there business and been gone and she would never know that's why in this case whats best for the dog is an emergency spay because she just doesn't know what dogs mated with her female let alone some terrible illness they could have or could have in there genes.

[gemy]

Your welcome Lynzy. I how-ever am humbled by Judy's( YorkieMom1.)
passion, and her un-compromising truth.

I do have a much gentler approach, but trust me in my beliefs I am adamant about many things around right breeding, and owning Yorkies, and my own breed.

And yes I am appalled that this woman left an in heat Yorkie out in a fenced yard that presumably she knew was un-secured as she had seen this "male" in there before. And yet again and yet again she let this gal out- even for 5minutes is too long.

I have a 6foot wooden intact fence, and when my almost 100 lb female went into heat, I went out into our backyard with her. And trust me, only a male with a death wish would try her on for mating. But also I would never ever walk her when she was in heat. Why? Because I could not protect either her, or the intemperate male that tried to mount my hellion.

As a large breed owner who admittedly has females that would shred most males apart - I would never let my female out un-attended in heat or even walk her outside.

Now from my perspective how would any loving owner of a 10lb female let her out in a risk situation????

Yes what is done is done .. but surely we can say ... THIS IS NOT the way to DO things with a FEMALE IN HEAT

[dawn27]

Yorkiemom1: WOW, Do you feel better now ?

Hell No I DO NOT condone puppy mills and I think that little rant about me was totally uncalled for and really mean spirited. That all I will say about that.

I will leave the other side of the coin to those of you who agree with it. Not my idea of a solution at this point especially when all the facts are not in place. Sorry but I dont agree with it unless the female is in danger of death. You all have your views and I have mine. Just because you dont agree with them doesn't give anyone the right to personal attack me. All I tried to do was to let the OP know that there are people who care about the outcome of this situation. That doesn't mean that everyone here does not care. Only that they do in different way than I do. I gave my opinions on the fact that the OP gave and nothing else.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by dawn27

Yorkiemom1: WOW, Do you feel better now ?

Hell No I DO NOT condone puppy mills and I think that little rant about me was totally uncalled for and really mean spirited. That all I will say about that.

I will leave the other side of the coin to those of you who agree with it. Not my idea of a solution at this point especially when all the facts are not in place. Sorry but I dont agree with it unless the female is in danger of death. You all have your views and I have mine. Just because you dont agree with them doesn't give anyone the right to personal attack me. All I tried to do was to let the OP know that there are people who care about the outcome of this situation. That doesn't mean that everyone here does not care. Only that they do in different way than I do. I gave my opinions on the fact that the OP gave and nothing else.

Well there is at least in your mind another side. There are enough facts in place, to place this pregnancy at a high risk. Let us review them.

1. Unattended female outside - owner admits she has seen at least one dog in the yard. ... .. Means at any time other dogs can get inside the yard too.

2. Witnessed "one" dog going after her female.

3. Her dog is NOT health tested and prepared if indeed she should even bring puppies into this would - is presumably mated with some-one at some time. Or more than someone at various days n times.

4. De facto who ever the sire or sires are ; are of un known size and of unknown health, and of unknown health lineage

So given all of this; why would you not consider you are putting this female at a huge health risk to even go forward with a pregnancy.

Then if she successfully whelps what-ever pups she whelps, is the owner financially able not to mention experientally able to nuture and bring these pups to a healthy place? Then how will this owner find homes, and does this owner of this dog have the funds to provide a health guarantee against genetic defects of these puppies?

Sobering thought. I wish all bybers and "accidental" breeders would be made to be financially responsible for all the health woes they foist onto unsuspecting and naïve buyers.

[chozengirl]

I am going to attempt to be very calm in this posting. I really do not appreciate rudeness. I can understand that some of you are upset and that is fine. I screwed up, I admit that. But this was not intentional. And I would like to clarify that at no time did I see the male going after her. I never even saw him near her, I saw him in my yard.

As stated in the original post she has a vet appointment next week. That is the soonest I could get her in as they are booked solid. Just because a pregnancy isn't planned does not mean I am aborting puppies unless recommended by her vet. I simply wanted to know if any one had infomation on the blood test and if it could tell a false pregnancy from a real one.

Now I am sure all this will start another round of attacks but just an FYI, those do absolutely no good. They have just assured me I made a bad desicion to come here and try to learn from people who I thought would want to help, and share their knowledge in a professional, and respectful way.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by gemy

Well there is at least in your mind another side. There are enough facts in place, to place this pregnancy at a high risk. Let us review them.

1. Unattended female outside - owner admits she has seen at least one dog in the yard. ... .. Means at any time other dogs can get inside the yard too.

2. Witnessed "one" dog going after her female.

3. Her dog is NOT health tested and prepared if indeed she should even bring puppies into this would - is presumably mated with some-one at some time. Or more than someone at various days n times.

4. De facto who ever the sire or sires are ; are of un known size and of unknown health, and of unknown health lineage

So given all of this; why would you not consider you are putting this female at a huge health risk to even go forward with a pregnancy.

Then if she successfully whelps what-ever pups she whelps, is the owner financially able not to mention experientally able to nuture and bring these pups to a healthy place? Then how will this owner find homes, and does this owner of this dog have the funds to provide a health guarantee against genetic defects of these puppies?

Sobering thought. I wish all bybers and "accidental" breeders would be made to be financially responsible for all the health woes they foist onto unsuspecting and naïve buyers.

My point exactly....consider the sources.