Ultrasound tomorrow, maybe confirm pregnancy!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by PrincessSophie1

(partial quote for clarity of reply) This IS a public post, I agree! However my post was for people who would graciously give me MORE information than what I already know!

The FAQS section very openly states (this is paraphrased) that if you cannot post a response that helps the person who posted questions, then do not post.

I believe that most of you in the breeder's section who have posted here have superiority complexes and no one will ever be good enough, ever...

Anyone who is actually willing to help as I have requested, feel free to PM me. Otherwise, move on.

Please allow me to step in and clarify a few things for you. First though, I want to welcome you to YorkieTalk . I edited your post so that I could focus my reply on things that need clarification.

As far as the YT FAQs you mentioned, let me clarify that it does *not* state that members must "post a response which helps the person, otherwise do not post". A member's response could be helpful whether or not they agree with your actions - all members are welcome to post on any thread, whether or not they agree with your actions. If we asked people to only post if "helpful"...where would that leave room for discussion, debate, opinions, and a real "forum" - which is what YT is, by definition. We can't define what is "helpful" or not; what is "not helpful" today, may be incredibly helpful down the line (to both the original poster and/or to anyone reading).

I suppose in life that there are indeed some folks who have superiority complexes. Sure, I've seen it here at YT - there is no section immune to this occasional experience. I also see it in real life. I don't really see it in your thread; I see people sharing their opinions and experiences. What if some people here are viewing you as having a superiority complex? Does that make it true? My point is, if you think any member is acting 'superior' - oh well; to use your words: move on.

Lastly, you mentioned in a few of your posts that you were not given the kind of support you specifically wanted. Again, we don't ask that members offer support according to the poster's request. Also, PLEASE REMEMBER - that YT is a dog forum, and more specifically, a YORKIE forum. Therefore, members here will also give their opinions in support of the YORKIE, and the situation the yorkie may be in. You will also see lots of passion regarding breeding beliefs - and the spectrum of those beliefs is allowed here.

Originally Posted by PrincessSophie1

(partial quote for clarity of reply) If you're going to help me, then do it. If you're not going to help me gain even more knowledge and relevant information, then do not post a reply.

You all chose to write something on my post, but you had the choice to not write and allow someone who is willing to help me with my requests and leave your negativity out. Feel free to delete your posts.

No member can dictate who may and may not reply, and under what circumstances they may reply. On that note, we don't dictate what is relevant or not; we may intervene if a thread is going completely off topic. However, the replies in this thread are definitely relevant.

Btw, members cannot delete their posts; what is said here is permanent unless there is a need for a Mod or Admin to intervene.

Originally Posted by PrincessSophie1

I am very thankful for your help and thank you for your encouragement, I do know there are people like you who actually want to help and not circling like a bunch of vultures!

Calling YT members vultures isn't (to use your words) gentle or supportive. You're asking people to behave a certain way (as defined by you), but then not exactly walking the walk yourself. I mention this only because I'm a firm believer in that you can't have it both ways.

Originally Posted by PrincessSophie1

If there is some unspeakable mutation/defect to having bred my black/tan with a chocolate, these pups will not be euthanized or dumped in a pet rescue facility. I just wanted to add that last part, just in case someone feels that my choice to breed was an unforgivable "mistake".

I'd mention here that it may be wise to keep your pups longer, and spay/neuter them before they leave your care. Some would say that breeding chocolates may result in devastating health consequences, as I'm sure you're already aware of.

In conclusion, I hope you have the passion to stick around YT - despite the fact that opinions differ, and sometimes things get heated. Like you, we all love our dogs SO very much - and deep abiding love will often illicit a lot of passion...not really a bad thing, ya know? We all can learn and better ourselves from passionate interactions - even if/when those interactions sting a little (I've been stung plenty, btw, and I know it can hurt...but don't let your emotions/reactions get the best of who you really are ).

[msyorktown]

Thank you Wylies Mom...... Clarification on yt rules and regulations is very much appreciated.

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by PrincessSophie1

Thank you so much, Dawn!! These are great tips and I am now on a hunt to acquire all of these items since I did get the positive confirmation that my Yorkie is expecting yesterday. I am very thankful for your help and thank you for your encouragement, I do know there are people like you who actually want to help and not circling like a bunch of vultures!

Your very welcome.... get ready! I wouldl also suggest putting some money back for an emergency just in case.

Also be sure to read Wily's mom post of YT rules and remember that "yes" this is an open forum as some have pointed out. You pretty much have to take the good and the bad reguardless of how you feel about how some people choose to state their concerns. You will soon figure out that tention run high with certion situations and TY member have no trouble telling you how they feel.

If ever you feel that a member has taken things too far you always have the option to report the post by clicking on the red lined triangle at the bottom of the post on the left side of the message box. Than the monitor will decide if it should be removed.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by PrincessSophie1

Thank you, gemy! Your reply was actually very helpful and informative, presented in a respectful way.

I guess I will have to live with breeding 2 non standard Yorkies and if I keep all of the pups to love and care for myself, than that is what I will do. If there is some unspeakable mutation/defect to having bred my black/tan with a chocolate, these pups will not be euthanized or dumped in a pet rescue facility. I just wanted to add that last part, just in case someone feels that my choice to breed was an unforgivable "mistake". Thank you again, gemy! You were honestly very helpful!

You are most welcome!. I would highly suggest that you BAT test all pups prior to placement. Unfortunately as you may know, Liver Disease/Liver Shunt and or MVD, is a genetic health condition that unfortunately seems to be cropping up in the YT Breed. The protocol for testing states at 16wks and then 6mths; look up Dr. K Tobias, and you will learn a lot more.

Also if you haven't familiarized yourself with our Sick and Emergency Forum, it can be a huge eye opener. We have many members here, who are bearing the heartache, not to mention the financial cost of sick dogs. Many of those dogs are the result of inappropriate breeding, that has resulted in genetic defects.

It seems to me that you are a caring and committed person, who would do their all to help insure that any puppies you might place, will be a fine and healthy dog.

I don't know your mentor, or your grounding/experience in the breeding world.

I am very dedicated to healthy dogs being produced. What I say now, in terms of pre breeding testing, goes way beyond what the YTCA deems fit. Nevertheless here it is:

1. LP evaluation
2. CT clearance
3. BATS testing
4. HD xrays and evaluation by offa - results published
5. Thyroid function testing - results published
6. PRA testing - results published
7. Full blood work done prior breeding
8, Brucellosis testing prior breeding.
9, Genetic test for Hyperuricosuria

I say this now, not only for your edification, but for other readers of these posts.

There is a whole lot that goes into responsible breeding; breeding healthy dogs of any breed.

I will tell you, despite my knowledge, and my years of experience, my research, and all the testing I do, and make sure is done; my heart is in my mouth for many, many, months. From whelping, to rearing, to placement, to follow up one year, two years, three years down the road and more with any pup I have placed.

A good breeder will stand behind their dogs for their lifetime. That is a long time commitment of time, emotional and financial support.

I wish you all the best with the whelp. And I do hope you stick around to let us know how it all goes.

[scrapindee]

Muriel Lee writes a marvelous book from breeding through whelping and care afterwards. I suggest you order it from Amazon. I reread it before every litter. Hope you gain as much from the book as you will need to keep your girl safe.

[horsnaround]

Originally Posted by PrincessSophie1

Lovetodream88, thank you for your concern...I do believe that for non-show dogs there is not a non-standard Yorkie breed. That is your opinion and from what I have learned from my mentor and other reputable sources of information about breeding (not here of course) is that the demeanor of the dog has become an important "standard" of breeding for non-show Yorkies.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by horsnaround

But that is not true and it is not is best for the Yorkie breed

[PrincessSophie1]

Originally Posted by scrapindee

Muriel Lee writes a marvelous book from breeding through whelping and care afterwards. I suggest you order it from Amazon. I reread it before every litter. Hope you gain as much from the book as you will need to keep your girl safe.

Thank you scrapindee!!! I will look for that book immediately!!

[PrincessSophie1]

Originally Posted by horsnaround

Thanks horsnaround for your support, no matter how misguided we may be!

[PrincessSophie1]

Originally Posted by gemy

You are most welcome!. I would highly suggest that you BAT test all pups prior to placement. Unfortunately as you may know, Liver Disease/Liver Shunt and or MVD, is a genetic health condition that unfortunately seems to be cropping up in the YT Breed. The protocol for testing states at 16wks and then 6mths; look up Dr. K Tobias, and you will learn a lot more.

Also if you haven't familiarized yourself with our Sick and Emergency Forum, it can be a huge eye opener. We have many members here, who are bearing the heartache, not to mention the financial cost of sick dogs. Many of those dogs are the result of inappropriate breeding, that has resulted in genetic defects.

It seems to me that you are a caring and committed person, who would do their all to help insure that any puppies you might place, will be a fine and healthy dog.

I don't know your mentor, or your grounding/experience in the breeding world.

I am very dedicated to healthy dogs being produced. What I say now, in terms of pre breeding testing, goes way beyond what the YTCA deems fit. Nevertheless here it is:

1. LP evaluation
2. CT clearance
3. BATS testing
4. HD xrays and evaluation by offa - results published
5. Thyroid function testing - results published
6. PRA testing - results published
7. Full blood work done prior breeding
8, Brucellosis testing prior breeding.
9, Genetic test for Hyperuricosuria

I say this now, not only for your edification, but for other readers of these posts.

There is a whole lot that goes into responsible breeding; breeding healthy dogs of any breed.

I will tell you, despite my knowledge, and my years of experience, my research, and all the testing I do, and make sure is done; my heart is in my mouth for many, many, months. From whelping, to rearing, to placement, to follow up one year, two years, three years down the road and more with any pup I have placed.

A good breeder will stand behind their dogs for their lifetime. That is a long time commitment of time, emotional and financial support.

I wish you all the best with the whelp. And I do hope you stick around to let us know how it all goes.

Much love and appreciation to you, gemy!

[PrincessSophie1]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Please allow me to step in and clarify a few things for you. First though, I want to welcome you to YorkieTalk . I edited your post so that I could focus my reply on things that need clarification.

As far as the YT FAQs you mentioned, let me clarify that it does *not* state that members must "post a response which helps the person, otherwise do not post". A member's response could be helpful whether or not they agree with your actions - all members are welcome to post on any thread, whether or not they agree with your actions. If we asked people to only post if "helpful"...where would that leave room for discussion, debate, opinions, and a real "forum" - which is what YT is, by definition. We can't define what is "helpful" or not; what is "not helpful" today, may be incredibly helpful down the line (to both the original poster and/or to anyone reading).

I suppose in life that there are indeed some folks who have superiority complexes. Sure, I've seen it here at YT - there is no section immune to this occasional experience. I also see it in real life. I don't really see it in your thread; I see people sharing their opinions and experiences. What if some people here are viewing you as having a superiority complex? Does that make it true? My point is, if you think any member is acting 'superior' - oh well; to use your words: move on.

Lastly, you mentioned in a few of your posts that you were not given the kind of support you specifically wanted. Again, we don't ask that members offer support according to the poster's request. Also, PLEASE REMEMBER - that YT is a dog forum, and more specifically, a YORKIE forum. Therefore, members here will also give their opinions in support of the YORKIE, and the situation the yorkie may be in. You will also see lots of passion regarding breeding beliefs - and the spectrum of those beliefs is allowed here.



No member can dictate who may and may not reply, and under what circumstances they may reply. On that note, we don't dictate what is relevant or not; we may intervene if a thread is going completely off topic. However, the replies in this thread are definitely relevant.

Btw, members cannot delete their posts; what is said here is permanent unless there is a need for a Mod or Admin to intervene.



Calling YT members vultures isn't (to use your words) gentle or supportive. You're asking people to behave a certain way (as defined by you), but then not exactly walking the walk yourself. I mention this only because I'm a firm believer in that you can't have it both ways.



I'd mention here that it may be wise to keep your pups longer, and spay/neuter them before they leave your care. Some would say that breeding chocolates may result in devastating health consequences, as I'm sure you're already aware of.

In conclusion, I hope you have the passion to stick around YT - despite the fact that opinions differ, and sometimes things get heated. Like you, we all love our dogs SO very much - and deep abiding love will often illicit a lot of passion...not really a bad thing, ya know? We all can learn and better ourselves from passionate interactions - even if/when those interactions sting a little (I've been stung plenty, btw, and I know it can hurt...but don't let your emotions/reactions get the best of who you really are ).

Thank you, Wylie's Mom for your clarification on what this forum allows. I do appreciate you taking the time to edit several posts by me and addressing them specifically. However, I don't believe that by doing that addresses the countless opinions and facts given that were from other forum members that were not helpful to me and I had made that known more than once that the information was NOT what I have been asking for in regards to my Yorkie.

The definition of helpful is "giving or ready to give help", synonymous with beneficial. I recognized everyone who was helpful to my OP. If this is a forum who declares that anyone has the right to post what they feel is important, then I also have that same right. I was asking for HELP, not selective off topic criticism nor passionate opinions opposite of my questions. Helpful criticism that is relevant to my question(s) were very welcomed, but intellectual Yorkie scholars who (because that is their right and passion to do so) felt compelled to give and continue to give their facts and opinions that were, to put it mildly, "less than helpful". I am not the only one that these forum members have done this to, which is why I had made that inclusion in my OP about being somewhat reserved to starting a new thread (paraphrased). These other members did to me what they have done to many others and from what I've gathered is that YT has been gaining a less than stellar reputation on its treatment of other members that may not be so schooled, such as those who have spent years and years and thousands and thousands of dollars that they have sacrificed to making the breed better....They started "somewhere".

I really do appreciate you being somewhat neutral on this thread, but if I'm the underdog here and my posts were the easy ones to separate from its context to "help" others down the road, then so be it.

Item number one of "New Users Please Read & YorkieTalk Guidelines", located in FAQS states:
"1. Please be civil and do not personally attack anyone or their opinions. If you disagree with their approach or method, feel free to reply, but do it in a civil way. Or you can choose to ignore their post altogether."

You stated above that no one can dictate who replies and who doesn't, then why does it state "you can choose to ignore their post altogether"? That tells me that the person reading posts can dictate their own choice to not reply. I do realize that this applies to me as well. My reason for responding was to continually insist the ongoing nature of my OP and to try to deter those members who felt so strongly a need to reply and cause my OP to become littered with answers/opinions/passionate beliefs/drama that did not help me (or anyone else that may have the same or similar question).

If the worst thing I did here was to symbolically portray other members "as vultures" regarding how they give their help/answers/opinions/passionate beliefs towards my OP, then I am at fault and truly ask for forgiveness. However, it seems a bit inequitable to use the one thing that I said to portray their behavior in how their answers were given/delivery of content and not address ALL of those members whose answers did not apply or were not relevant or helpful to my OP.

Wylie's Mom, I do sincerely thank you for all the time you spent to help moderate this thread.

[nanahas3]

I understand that you feel that your were being picked on by some but the fact is that people here are very passionate about our breed. Yes there are ways to word our responses that maybe would come across a little nicer but in all fairness you did breed 2 off standard yorkies which will cause a lot of response from breeders who strive to better the breed. I like you when I first got my yorkie thought it would be wonderful to have puppies but thank goodness I found YT before I jumped headlong into breeding. I pray that you have an easy whelping and that your babies do great and that you find wonderful homes for them. I really think one of the reasons people are so passionate is because if we continue to breed off standard dogs then before long our precious yorkies will not be yorkies anymore. Oh they may say yorkie on a dna test but they will fail to resemble the dogs we have all grown to love. Also you should consider the frustration that the breeders who strive to improve the breed must feel when they read posts such as yours. They are so helpful here on YT even when they disagree with what has already become a fact (that 2 off standards are going to already have a litter) they still will give good advice and try to help the owners in every way they can to save the mommy and litter. After all if you buy a book or go to classes they will not handle anyone with kid gloves and will give the same stern advice that you recieved here you just don't take it personally because it is printed for the masses. Good luck with your litter and God Bless .

[PrincessSophie1]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

I understand that you feel that your were being picked on by some but the fact is that people here are very passionate about our breed. Yes there are ways to word our responses that maybe would come across a little nicer but in all fairness you did breed 2 off standard yorkies which will cause a lot of response from breeders who strive to better the breed. I like you when I first got my yorkie thought it would be wonderful to have puppies but thank goodness I found YT before I jumped headlong into breeding. I pray that you have an easy whelping and that your babies do great and that you find wonderful homes for them. I really think one of the reasons people are so passionate is because if we continue to breed off standard dogs then before long our precious yorkies will not be yorkies anymore. Oh they may say yorkie on a dna test but they will fail to resemble the dogs we have all grown to love. Also you should consider the frustration that the breeders who strive to improve the breed must feel when they read posts such as yours. They are so helpful here on YT even when they disagree with what has already become a fact (that 2 off standards are going to already have a litter) they still will give good advice and try to help the owners in every way they can to save the mommy and litter. After all if you buy a book or go to classes they will not handle anyone with kid gloves and will give the same stern advice that you recieved here you just don't take it personally because it is printed for the masses. Good luck with your litter and God Bless .

Hi nanahas3! Thank you for your post! I honestly understand the standpoint and intensity of the other members. My philosophy is if what you say doesn't edify another, then I try at all costs to keep my thoughts and opinions to myself. It is a matter of discipline and self-control...I am not perfect either. Thank you so much for your support! I really don't foresee Sophie being high risk during labor/delivery, but I can say I am getting totally prepared for all case scenarios! God bless you too, my friend!

[LunasMomma]

Wow, you are really full of yourself aren't you? You got it exactly right, it's a CHOICE whether to post on your thread or not. You cannot dictate what people post in this very public forum. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's not helpful. You are NOT the ONLY one reading this, there are thousands of others who read here that never post. We all post with that in mind.

As to the standard, if everyone goes breeding their off-standard Yorkies willy-nilly, what do you think will become of the Yorkie breed? It would be so muddled that no one would know it's a Yorkie. THAT is the crux of why only the very best of the standard should be reproduced. Breeding off-standard dogs is a crime against the breed. While these dogs would be perfectly adorable and sweet, they would cease to be identifiable as Yorkies.

If you already have a mentor, they must not be very reputable if they are encouraging you to breed off-standard.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by LunasMomma

Wow, you are really full of yourself aren't you? You got it exactly right, it's a CHOICE whether to post on your thread or not. You cannot dictate what people post in this very public forum. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's not helpful. You are NOT the ONLY one reading this, there are thousands of others who read here that never post. We all post with that in mind.

As to the standard, if everyone goes breeding their off-standard Yorkies willy-nilly, what do you think will become of the Yorkie breed? It would be so muddled that no one would know it's a Yorkie. THAT is the crux of why only the very best of the standard should be reproduced. Breeding off-standard dogs is a crime against the breed. While these dogs would be perfectly adorable and sweet, they would cease to be identifiable as Yorkies.

If you already have a mentor, they must not be very reputable if they are encouraging you to breed off-standard.

I once overheard a VERY wise, educated person calmly tell one of the new residents, in front of the entire new orientation class of 250 young doctors: "When everyone ELSE around you seems crazy, or stupid, or ungrateful, or know-it-all, you need to STOP DEAD IN YOUR TRACKS, and re-assess YOURSELF! As long as there are TWO people alive, they are not going to agree on everything....when you think you are above reproach and do not have ANYTHING you can learn from ANYONE else, especially those that dont agree with you, or those that offer constructive criticism, or even have the audacity to mention YOUR ignorance in any given area maybe in a tone you dont like, then you have shut off vital learning experiences, whether you like the way you have been addressed or not! LEARN HUMILITY, SON!!. IT WILL SERVE YOU WELL IN LIFE!!!... If nothing else, you MUST learn NOT to be a pompous bas*#@d!!"
That came from a world reknown cardiovascular surgeon.....and there are MANY people that can indeed learn from those words! Unfortunately, the people that need to hear these words and take them to heart, will not hear them as valuable or applicable to THEM!!!