There are well respected breeders here whose dogs live in one room of the house in crates and never go for walks or to the park or for car rides. I think this is horrible that they never get to go outside. This breeder sound like she understands the needs of the dog to see sunlight occasionally and have some exercise. What is wrong with that?

You READ my mind. Yorkies belong UNDERFOOT and INSIDE your house. Those puppies will not be very well adjusted nor will the dogs be pottytrained.

....it is not okay to be rude. Civil and respectful debate is all I will participate in. :(

Go ahead Lisa....join the pixie dust crowd.... :rolleyes:

You are all being so childish about a fairly serious subject and I like levity ...but not at someone else's expense! It is not in the best interests of this forum that is for sure.

I guess your definition of "respectable" and "a dog's needs" are different than mine. Keeping yorkies outside of the house is not cool. The dogs need to hear everyday sounds like the vacuum cleaner running and people walking around. It makes a well adjusted dog. This is why I always ask to see what the breeding facility looks like...

Why are you avoiding giving the name of the vet and breeder that breeds tinies?

*hands out pixie dust to everyone for Christmas*

But what is more important, defending someone because you feel they are being attacked or defending a dog that can't speak for themselves? Which is it, Kim? You defend these UNreputable breeders all the time but you attack those (US) that are defending the bitches!

The last time I checked, this was a Yorkie forum...Not a debate forum...btw I liked abracadabra! :p

Kim you speak with such conviction it sounds as though youve had experience when indeed you havent.

Do yourself a favor find someone local or ask the several vets you know that own under breeding size bitches if you can come first hand to observe a whelping then come to this forum with your then educated opinion on breeding such small bitchs. While they are whelping perhaps you can engage in a conversation about inbreeding and line breed and the purpose for solidifing a bloodline!

Thanks for bringing this up- I clearly am being avoided when I asked for the information maybe you wil get a response.

This thread has gone silly-because the comments that some make on here are just rambles. If you don't put some humor into this it would make one want to cry about how uniformed some of the members of this forum are.

I too like to debate but when you start quoting what has been told to you by others and representing this as the word of those who know more then the majority- I am like the old mule who wants to speak to them first hand. Just be kind to an old lady set in her ways - who are these breeder/vets who have taught a choosen few so much about breeding. I am always anxious to learn but I need more then just your word Kim.

Ladies...ladies... ladies!.............lol......
I didnt mean to start a heated debate.
My Little girl is doing so well and she is such a wonderful mother. Her babies are strong nursers and you never hear a peep out of them, they are very content.
I was open to breeding my tiny, I thought it might go okay.Thought a small male might help. I thought I knew what I was doing. I didnt. My experience was bad and I will never do it again. There are guidelines for a reason, I think Ill stick to them instead of being a big head.
People will do what they want to do, I did, but I just wanted to warn them that it may not be what they may think it will be.

See my posts # 58 and 66 :)

Kelly I am so sorry. In our passion of the topic we have gone a muck on your thread. Once again thank you for sharing this topic with us- we admire you for your honnesty and your courage. Reading your story will help others when faced with a simular situation to make a informed choice- you my brave friend have been there and have done that. You speak words of wisdom.
You climbed the mountain and made it back down.

:thumbup:

Not one single BREEDER on here who doesn't breed tinies has offered one source for why they feel it is unehtical, cruel, wrong, bad, disreputable and whatever else. The burden to prove it is bad is on those who say it IS, not those who don't know one way or the other.

Villette just offered her own vet as one who said it is okay to breed a tiny as long as it is not smaller than 4 lbs.

The breeders on here won't answer my question back on post #79 so I will try again:
This is to all of the breeders on here who do not show, not just Kimberley: Here is the question I have never had the guts to ask but if you do not show, you breed for pets only and you lose money on every litter then why breed your precious girl?__________________

I certainly would defend a dog or any other helpless creature over a person who was abusing them. I do not believe there were any dogs needing defending when Yorkierule was being attacked and called names. I choose to believe that her dogs are well cared for and I will believe that until it is proven otherwise because I have no reason hot to believe her.

Definitions of forum on the Web:

a public meeting or assembly for open discussion
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Open discussion implies different points or view and oopinions.

I feel the need to remind EVERYONE that this was a thread started by Kelly to share her experience with all of us. She learned from that experience and is trying to relay awareness! AWARENESS!

This is NOT about vets, other breeders, or attackingl opinions! It is about an experience that took a lot of courage to share with us so that we can all learn from it (NEW members included)!

Please think about that for awhile before jumping on your keyboard!

Thank you Kimberly~ I am backing off this thread................

KIM - I DID NOT SAY ANY VETS SAY IT"S OK TO BREED TINIES - SO...DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS - The whole breeding conversations with my vet were discussing BODY Style and size - My vet would NEVER encourage a tiny at 4 lbs - HE also said many yorkies at 4-5 lbs are just too FRAIL to breed -

He loved Chanel because she IS NOT TINY and told me he usually didn't encourage breeding when he sees very small yorkies - but in my case he wanted to know if I was interested - You ALWAYS TWIST THINGS to suit yourself ! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I can't believe you even said that ...I'm so done here too - but I HAD to clarify that I am against... and always will be against anyone... who puts a very small yorkie thru a pregnancy just so someone can buy a tiny puppy.

oh and Kim - you don't have to respond to me - I'm not answering you anymore-I think many of us have said what we wanted to say (YOU INCLUDED) and personally, I would LOVE to hear from others about this subject -

Why not give members here a chance to get a word in - you stated your points - maybe sit back and let others offer their opinions for a change ?

There is NO such thing as SHOW STANDARD and PET STANDARD ,there is only one standard for the Yorkshire Terrier .

Im a little disappointed in the direction this thread went.
My opening statement "NEVER BREED A TINY" should have really been "THINK HARD BEFORE YOU BREED A TINY" I was really upset when I wrote that thread and I meant to imply awareness not force my opinion on everyone.
With my experience I just wont take the chance again. I think the risk isnt worth it. Simple fact is I have had 11 litters in the last 2 1/2 yrs. I stayed within the standard weight recommended for breeding or above it, breeding 5 lbs or above.
I have never had to experience a C section in all that time until I bred my small girl. That proved to me, c sections are much more likely in a small female. It proved factual right here at home.
I must agree that if you decide to take the risk, make sure your vet uses gas instead of an injections for surgery. The last of the surgery was bad, since I know she would feel alot of pain, Im sure the gas is a much better choice, safer, and better controlled.
My cassie who weighs 7 lbs had 3 girls her last litter, they are all 3 lbs or under still at 5 months, She had such an easy whelping. If you want small yorkies its quite possible to produce them from a larger yorkie who will most likely not require surgery.
Just my humble novice opinion and experience.

I never said that I had lost any money, Kim. Did I make a bundle, NO, I did not.