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Old 04-19-2011, 01:04 PM   #1
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Default Need advise of the more Experienced Breeders.

Lets just agree off hand and say that every veterinarian and breeder does things differently! That being said... Please do not comment on my or my vets practices and try to just answer the question.

Here is my question... In your opinion, when is the best time to start feeding puppy food/supplemental diet to a dam/female who I plan on breeding?

Here is why I ask... My practice has always been to start the moment conception takes place. However my vet said only two weeks prier to whelping.

So what do you more experienced Breeders think?
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:20 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawn27 View Post
Lets just agree off hand and say that every veterinarian and breeder does things differently! That being said... Please do not comment on my or my vets practices and try to just answer the question.

Here is my question... In your opinion, when is the best time to start feeding puppy food/supplemental diet to a dam/female who I plan on breeding?

Here is why I ask... My practice has always been to start the moment conception takes place. However my vet said only two weeks prier to whelping.

So what do you more experienced Breeders think?
While your question is valid; you made statement, everybody does things differently and it's your decision, as to go with your vet's advice or your gut.

If the female is on a high quality food without soy there is no need to change to a puppy food. This was per both my vets; in different parts of the country....
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:44 PM   #3
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All my yorkies eat dry Chicken Soup Puppy food mixed with a little canned Pedigree Chopped Chicken or Pedigree Healthy Digestion canned food. They all do well on it. When I breed a female I never change her diet until after she has pups then I add some canned Pedigree puppy food to her regular diet and I add a calcium supplement to her diet.

I feel it is important to feed a quality dog food that has no corn or soy products in it. Another good food that I have used is Canidae All Stages of Life dog food.

The reason I feel a puppy food is important is because some females are prone to pre-eclampsia and I feel a good puppy food will help prevent that.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:15 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mardelin View Post
While your question is valid; you made statement, everybody does things differently and it's your decision, as to go with your vet's advice or your gut.

If the female is on a high quality food without soy there is no need to change to a puppy food. This was per both my vets; in different parts of the country....
My Vet seems to agree, also my son is studing veterinary medicine and his professors agree too... My dogs eat a high quality food, I keep my girls on it, while they are pregnant and once the babies arrive, I add, the scramble eggs, calcium supplement and all the other good stuff,My silkie Chanel also enjoys half of a raw medallion with her dinner while she is pregnant.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:35 PM   #5
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Puppy food should not be started (if at all) until after the puppies are whelped. The increased in calcium prior to whelp can in many cases imcrease the likilyhood of eclampsia.
Although I personally do start mothers on puppy food after whelp, I know many breeders that no longer follow that practice and feed only a good balanced adult food to both puppies and adults. They have been very successful with this. I am hesitant to change my practice as I am a firm believer in "If it ain't broke - don't fix it". :-)
Best of luck what ever you decide to do.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:51 PM   #6
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Puppy food should not be started (if at all) until after the puppies are whelped. The increased in calcium prior to whelp can in many cases imcrease the likilyhood of eclampsia.
Although I personally do start mothers on puppy food after whelp, I know many breeders that no longer follow that practice and feed only a good balanced adult food to both puppies and adults. They have been very successful with this. I am hesitant to change my practice as I am a firm believer in "If it ain't broke - don't fix it". :-)
Best of luck what ever you decide to do.
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I agree Charlie... interferring with the normal calcium producing process prior to a whelp is certainly asking for trouble. If one is feeding a good quality food prior it doesn't interfere with the normal balance of the dam.

I've also read that by changing to a puppy food that has higher calcium, protien and fat levels; upset the normal proceess of the dam's body to produce calcium normally and this can contribute to pre-eclampsia.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:44 PM   #7
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It is interesting how we all have different opinions. My vets had always recommended feeding puppy food. I have been giving my pregnant females puppy food for 13 years and have never had a problem with pre-eclampsia. I agree that a quality food is important but then vets and breeders have differing opinions on what is a quality food. I totally agree that any food with soy in it should not be fed. It has got where I hate giving advise because what works for me might no work for someone else. I know that is why it is advised for newbies to breeding to get a mentor and/or find a vet they can trust and follow their advise.

To the OP, best of luck with your upcoming litter.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:47 PM   #8
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It is interesting how we all have different opinions. My vets had always recommended feeding puppy food. I have been giving my pregnant females puppy food for 13 years and have never had a problem with pre-eclampsia. I agree that a quality food is important but then vets and breeders have differing opinions on what is a quality food. I totally agree that any food with soy in it should not be fed. It has got where I hate giving advise because what works for me might no work for someone else. I know that is why it is advised for newbies to breeding to get a mentor and/or find a vet they can trust and follow their advise.

To the OP, best of luck with your upcoming litter.
yep! We all do things differently. I've never switched to puppy food and checked with my repro/nutritionist vet when I moved out here. Both were the same school of thought.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:17 AM   #9
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Keep in mind that there are very few general practise Vets that have a lot of experience with canines in whelp much less Yorkies in whelp. I have listened to many Vets over the years give people horrible advice on breeding - simply bacause they "thought" they knew what they were talking about. Unless they have had specific training in Whelping after Vet School, the average Vet learns about it "on the job" and doesn't truly know what "normal" is.
A normal bitch can only be pushed into Eclampsia under extreme circumstances, such as very large litters or very poor diet. But a bitch with a pre-dispostion of Eclampsia can be set off very easily. Usually, you do not know that your bitch has a pre-dispoistion for it until it is too late so IMO it is better to be safe than sorry.
And speaking of Eclampsia, do you know what does the most damage during an episode? Not the lowered calcium level but the spike in temperature that it causes. So if you have a bitch callaspe with it, give her calcium immediately and take her to the Vet but wrap her in a cold towel for the trip to help lower her temperature. If the trip to the Vet will take an extended time, put her in an ice bath before you leave. But always take them to a Vet for blood work - even if they seem to pop right out of it. If her calcium level stays borderline, the second attack could easily kill her.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:35 AM   #10
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I just read a little more information on the subject of increase in calcium prior to whelping and found some articles on pre-eclampsia. I was very surprised. I doubt that I will continue feeding my dam the puppy food so early now that I am informed on the effects that the increase of calcium could have on her. I will follow both yours and my vets recommendations.

Thank you Charlie and Mardelin. and everynoe who posted. I still have more to learn!
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:08 AM   #11
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I just read a little more information on the subject of increase in calcium prior to whelping and found some articles on pre-eclampsia. I was very surprised. I doubt that I will continue feeding my dam the puppy food so early now that I am informed on the effects that the increase of calcium could have on her. I will follow both yours and my vets recommendations.

Thank you Charlie and Mardelin. and everynoe who posted. I still have more to learn!
I think you have made a very wise choice. I think perhaps the reason mine never have problems is because they are on the same food all the time with no change until after they have puppies. The food I feed is 28% protein and 17% fat.

Charlie and Mary.....do you mind sharing what foods you recommend?

Here is a couple of websites that have some good information, I don't agree with all of it but it is interesting. I quoted the paragraph about not feeding a raw diet. I found that interesting. Also the part about worming the pregnant bitch, I don't do that because my dogs don't have worms. I did not know that bitches could be wormed with Panacur while pregnant.

http://caninegeneticreserve.com/docu...t_Bitches2.pdf

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Raw diets should be avoided from day 30 gestational age (before the placentas form) until 4 weeks post-whelping. Animals fed raw diets sustain small abrasions of the GI mucosa from the bone they eat and all raw diets, no matter how meticulously they are prepared (commercial or homemade) contain potentially pathologic bacteria. Normal healthy dogs can dispose of these bacteria before they leave the gut and enter the bloodstream. However, since pregnancy depresses the immune system, these bacteria may enter the bloodstream in the pregnant bitch and preferentially go to the placental sites (because of their increased blood suppy) where they may cause infection and fetal death or abortion. This suppression of immunity continues for the first 3 – 4 weeks post-whelping and may result in metritis or mastitis.


Responsible Breeding - The Care and Feeding of the Breeding Bitch - Part Two
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:20 AM   #12
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I think you have made a very wise choice. I think perhaps the reason mine never have problems is because they are on the same food all the time with no change until after they have puppies. The food I feed is 28% protein and 17% fat.

Charlie and Mary.....do you mind sharing what foods you recommend?

Here is a couple of websites that have some good information, I don't agree with all of it but it is interesting. I quoted the paragraph about not feeding a raw diet. I found that interesting. Also the part about worming the pregnant bitch, I don't do that because my dogs don't have worms. I did not know that bitches could be wormed with Panacur while pregnant.

http://caninegeneticreserve.com/docu...t_Bitches2.pdf





Responsible Breeding - The Care and Feeding of the Breeding Bitch - Part Two
Food recommendation is not something I do readily. It is decision that one needs to make on their own and it may require some testing of different brands. I know that is what I had to do. Some brands didn't agree with some of my gang's stomachs...so there was alot of testing and consulting with my vet/nutritionist.

The one recommendation I will make is to make sure that the food of choice and treats that you provide your female with whelp, does not contain any soy. Soy is a known calcium depleater.

I don't ever worm a female. What I do is have her tested prior to breeding, but I would think having her wormed prior to breeding would be the safest procedure. I've never had a female or a litter test positive. I don't ever, ever give any chemicals to my breeders; dog or bitch.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:15 AM   #13
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Like Mary, I am not big on recommending foods. What I will say is that many of the grain free foods that are highly recommended for Yorkies would not be my first choice because of the high level of protein. I like to stay in the 25 to 27 % range. Raw diets can be excellent but they must be balanced. Dogs are carnivores but they still need some veggies in their diet along with other minerals not found in meat alone. So if you want to start feeding a raw diet - get information about it first and follow whichever plan you pick in its entirety.

I also do not routinely worm any of my Yorkies. I have fecals done each spring on the males and about a month prior to when a bitch should come in season for the girls. And yes - panacur can be used during pregnancy but (as with any medication) should be used only if there is a problem not as a preventative. It, like all wormers, is a poison. I know there are still Vets out there that will tell you all dogs have worms but that simply isn't the case.
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