Please help!

[keova1]

So my little Lucy gave birth to 5 puppies yesterday. The birthing process went great all but the two little males being very small, it kind of worried me so she was taken to the vet afterwards to ensure everything was okay. The vet seemed to think so. I still ended up giving the smaller pups the boiled liver juice. They seem to be doing well.

Today I noticed that her tits look swollen and red. I am not sure if it's normal or what. I have taken a few pictures, can someone please let me know what it could be? I could take her to an emergency vet tonight but she has an appointment tomorrow morning as well as the puppies to get their tails docked. Please let me know if it is something to really be concerned about.

Also, the pups weights are:

Female - 4.4oz
Female - 3.8oz
Female - 3oz
Male - 2.5oz
Male - 2oz

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by keova1

So my little Lucy gave birth to 5 puppies yesterday. The birthing process went great all but the two little males being very small, it kind of worried me so she was taken to the vet afterwards to ensure everything was okay. The vet seemed to think so. I still ended up giving the smaller pups the boiled liver juice. They seem to be doing well.

Today I noticed that her tits look swollen and red. I am not sure if it's normal or what. I have taken a few pictures, can someone please let me know what it could be? I could take her to an emergency vet tonight but she has an appointment tomorrow morning as well as the puppies to get their tails docked. Please let me know if it is something to really be concerned about.

Also, the pups weights are:

Female - 4.4oz
Female - 3.8oz
Female - 3oz
Male - 2.5oz
Male - 2oz

Your girl may have mastitis.....she should be seen and treated ASAP.

As far as your docking tails, they are a bit young....desired time is 3 and 5 days...looking at the weight of your pups, I'd wait until the 5th day.

With a litter this size, I hope you speak to your vet about calcium supplement....and of course making sure that she has food readily available to her at all times.

[keova1]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Your girl may have mastitis.....she should be seen and treated ASAP.

As far as your docking tails, they are a bit young....desired time is 3 and 5 days...looking at the weight of your pups, I'd wait until the 5th day.

With a litter this size, I hope you speak to your vet about calcium supplement....and of course making sure that she has food readily available to her at all times.

Thanks for the reply. Will 8:30a.m. be soon enough for should I take her to an emergency vet?

As for the tail docking, the vet suggested it be done Saturday as Monday, the 5th day may be too late. It makes me nervous :/

I am giving her 1/4 of a Pet-Cal tablet per day to address the calcium and she has wet and dry puppy food as well as fresh water readily available at all.times.

[YorkieRose]

If the vet finds all well...use warm, wet compress and gently milk as much off as you can...then encourage the pups to nurse the engorged teats...I used the milk to bottle feed the small ones when needed...

I would not dock the two smaller ones until Monday at least.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by keova1

Thanks for the reply. Will 8:30a.m. be soon enough for should I take her to an emergency vet?

As for the tail docking, the vet suggested it be done Saturday as Monday, the 5th day may be too late. It makes me nervous :/

I am giving her 1/4 of a Pet-Cal tablet per day to address the calcium and she has wet and dry puppy food as well as fresh water readily available at all.times.

I really can't tell if it is truely mastitis from the pics...But, I'd err on the side of caution.

1/4 tablet for is really not enough.


Breeders' Edge&#174 Oral Cal Plus - Revival Animal Health
new product from revival, same as calsorb with out the nasty taste, does not make them vomit.

If you must give calsorb, put it on your finger, and rub in bitches mouth, gums, inside of mouth, underneath tongue, then follow with nutrical, don’t just squirt a blob in their mouth. Even if they throw up, it HAS absorbed (not 100%.. but a lot) because the bloodstream picks it up immediately through the mouth..it does not have to be digested to work. Give calsorb or Oral Cal Plus if bitch is exhibiting signs of eclampsia. Some signs are very subtle. My bitch would dig like crazy when I took her outside, then try to climb up the side of the wall of the house…that was her first sign she was going south for me.. and we’d treat with calsorb immediately. Anything “odd” should be taken as a sign…especially, panting, pacing, restless behavior etc… understanding of course that bitches pant after delivery anyways for a few days.

Okay to hold it at bay, so it never comes at all… forget everything about giving tums, cottage cheese, cheese, icecream.. etc. It’s useless. The body needs the calcium to be delivered with the correct ratio of Vit D and Phosphorus or it doesn’t absorb it, it’s useless. Pet Cal has this correct ratio. Another thing that has it is, believe it or not.. a scrambled whole egg! Of course everyone knows not to start calcium until the litter is whelped.. no giving it to PG bitches… I do give some calsorb during whelping If things slow down on a larger litter, but never before whelping. Make it a general practice to scramble your bitch an egg every day, and depending on weight, give ½ to a whole pet tab per day. I gave it to a 8 lb bitch ½ in the morning ½ at night…this is the “daily dose” for about a 20 lb dog who was NOT nursing a litter…so just fine for ½ the size, but nursing a litter. I would grind up the pet tab in the food processor and put the powder in the egg when I scrambled it.

Also, check your dog food for Soybeans, soy protein, or anything related to soy in any way. For SOME reason that is not completely understood by me (many menopause supplements contain soy, or are soy based, so this seems to be a contradiction).. soy protein can interfere with the absorption of calcium in dogs. If your food has soy of any sort, change to a food that does not for the duration of the weaning of the litter.

I would definately wait to have the pup's tail and dew claws removed. The pups are a bit small.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

If the vet finds all well...use warm, wet compress and gently milk as much off as you can...then encourage the pups to nurse the engorged teats...I used the milk to bottle feed the small ones when needed...

I would not dock the two smaller ones until Monday at least.

Thanks Pat the smaller ones were what I was worried about. I'd wait until Monday.

[Woogie Man]

I agree on waiting on the tail docking. The pups will only be 4 days old on Monday....not too late at all. They are small, especially the boys. Give them time to plump out. No sense in stressing an undersize pup and your vet would likely agree.

I would watch out for the boys. They're both small so make sure they're getting enough milk. Often the little ones will try to nurse but aren't getting enough.

You could try expressing some of the milk on the swollen teats yourself to relieve some of the pressure. If they get too firm and tight, the pup won't be able to 'work' it and will leave it alone and then it just gets more swollen. Try hand expressing enough milk to make it slack enough for a pup to knead it, then put one of the girls on it.

I use a calcium supplement that is 1 tablet for a 20 pound non-nursing dog. I break it in half and feed 1/2 tablet twice daily. Sometimes I break the halves in half so Mom can eat it better.

[yorkiegirl2]

Congrats on your new little ones.
As always it is best to have your Vet to check her out.

Some females over produce milk at first.
The back teats will look and feel like they have gravel in them, be red color and warm to the touch.
She may continue to have the same condition the next time she is bred.
Each time you will need to use a warm compress and express some of the milk off several times a day until her body adjust to the amount of milk needed.
Also keeping the larger pups nursing off the back teats to help with the engorgement.
You should see improvement usually in 2-3 days.

Use the expressed milk to feed the smaller boys if they are not nursing off mom
or
you can sit with mom while letting the smaller ones nurse, squeeze the teat while nursing if needed.
If they are getting enough milk they will have round little tummies and be content.
Other wise if they look thin and cry and they will need to be hand fed until they are strong enough to nurse off mom..

As far as docking the smaller ones, I would not do so until they are 5 days.
If they have not gaining enough weight and you are not comfortable to have it done on day 5.
Then I would not put them through the stress or take a risk of killing them simply for a cosmetic reason.
If someone wants the procedures done later on, they can do it when the pup is spayed / neutered.

If I need to use a calcium supplement, I use Tums ½ in the morning and ½ in the evening.

[keova1]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

I took all the mother and babies to the vet at 8:30 this morning and was told that all the puppies are healthy and thriving just to keep an eye on the 2 males. The mother is doing excellent as well. The vet was impressed at how good of a mother she was being. He decided to wait and dock the tails Monday because of their size.

I will keep everyone updated.

Thanks again

[yorkiegirl2]

Glad to hear all is well..

[keova1]

So some bad news. Everything was going great until 3a.m. last night, the mother started shaking and couldn't stand up so I immediately knew it was probably something to do with her calcium levels so I rushed her to the emergency vet, come to find out, it was eclampsia.

I have never been so worried! I will never make her go through this again, I vowed to her last night that she would never have to be a mother again!

I was told by the vet that the puppies will no longer be able to nurse that I will have to bottle feed them 4 to 6 ML every 2 hours for the first 2 weeks and then every 4 hours after that. Is this information correct?

I went to Petco and purchased bottles and replacement milk today but the puppies don't seem to want to suck from the bottle.


Any helpful information would be greatly appreciated.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by keova1

So some bad news. Everything was going great until 3a.m. last night, the mother started shaking and couldn't stand up so I immediately knew it was probably something to do with her calcium levels so I rushed her to the emergency vet, come to find out, it was eclampsia.

I have never been so worried! I will never make her go through this again, I vowed to her last night that she would never have to be a mother again!

I was told by the vet that the puppies will no longer be able to nurse that I will have to bottle feed them 4 to 6 ML every 2 hours for the first 2 weeks and then every 4 hours after that. Is this information correct?

I went to Petco and purchased bottles and replacement milk today but the puppies don't seem to want to suck from the bottle.


Any helpful information would be greatly appreciated.

No replacement milk.

Esbilac can contribute to shunt because of trace minerals.
Just Born can contribute to premature cataracs.

The closest things to mother's milk is Goat's Milk. Canned Goat's Milk can be purchased at WalMart....in the canned milk section.

Mix the Goat's Milk with equal parts of distilled water and a bit of Karo Syrup.

I prefer attaching a premmie nipple to a syringe.....less change of air and aspiration. Don't forget to burp.

About week 3 1/2 the will be able to lap on their own...and about week 4 you can add Gerber's rice cereal.....and feed 5 times a day.

Mmmm you might want to purchase some Benebac - probiotic....wise to give it anytime you make changes to their diet.....good bacteria

There is also a whelping pudding recipe that is posted as a stickie at the top of the Breeder's forum. Good for pups as well as your mom.

[Sara1130]

Sorry to hear about momma and what she is going through. I went through my own nightmare after the girl I now have, Bella had problems after her c-section. She was unable to nurse for the first 7 days if memory serves me correctly and I had to bottle feed my 4 babies.

From my experience the puppy needs 1 ml/cc per oz of weight every 2 hours. Not sure if that is still correct with using the goats milk formula. So a 4 oz puppy would need at least 4 ml/cc at each feeding.

The little bottles that you buy at the store are ok for the first few feedings but they will quickly out grow them. I think I ended up getting 8 of them since I had to keep readjusting the flow of the milk. I did start with a syringe and I would drop 1 drop at a time in their mouth and that was using the little syringe when they could not suck. I also had to use a small eye dropper and do the same with that. After the first week we had to move to a bigger nipple so I got a gerber baby bottle from the infant section and it had a preemie nipple on it that was just the right size for them. I am now using a Dr. Brown's bottle with a newborn nipple on it and it works perfectly.

Burp them all after each feeding....they can get colic and will cry. If they are still crying after you have feed them, try burping or diapering them again, if that does not work you may try giving them some more food.....but only a small amount. If their tummy is already full then I would not offer food but if it is still smushy then I would. Also you will need to diaper them too after each feeding. If milk comes out their nose then stop feeding, clean out the milk and I did that by wiping it off first and then turning them upside down and patting on their back. You don't want them to inhale the milk. You may have some that don't want to eat and you just have to keep working with them to get them too. If they were all sucking on mom it won't take them long to get used to the bottle. Just try different size nipples till you find one that works for them. It was a lot of trial and error process but I have 4 healthy puppies that are now 4 weeks old. If you have a scale there you can weigh them before and after and do monitor their daily weight to make sure they are gaining. We lost a lot of weight the first few days but then it stopped and now on a steady climb.

Hope some of this helps. Ask any questions that you have or that you are unsure of....the more info you have the better you will be able to help them.

[yorkiegirl2]

Good info on the posts above but wanted to add..
Make sure the puppies are nice and warm before you feed them.
Feeding a chilled puppy can kill it.

[keova1]

Thank you guys so much! The above information is immensely helpful! I will keep everyone updated!