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-   -   Yorkie weight and breeding. (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/220360-yorkie-weight-breeding.html)

JeanieK 01-14-2011 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3394060)
I'm not disagreeing with this statement, but shouldn't that apply to ALL dogs, not just show dogs?
A champion stud has the potential to sire 100's to even 1000 of pups in his lifetime because of his popularity. Where as the stud of a hobby breeder would be much less.

Rhetts_mama 01-14-2011 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3394091)
A champion stud has the potential to sire 100's to even 1000 of pups in his lifetime because of his popularity. Where as the stud of a hobby breeder would be much less.
Why should the number matter? Even one sick pup is too many. Nor am I convinced that a hobby breeder would produce less.

Mardelin 01-14-2011 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3394078)
I didn't say that all did,. As for how much I sell my dogs for, that is a wide range from $2000 all the way down to $0000. you can't get much less than that.
It's not what you posted a few days ago.

I know some very famous exhibitor breeders that place their pet pups for $1,000.00. No differenciating from male or female and these are from Champion Sired and Champion Dam. Champions they Championed. But, then again their purpose to find the right homes for pups and I do know they've at placed not sold them,

But, that's neither here nor there. This person wants to know about breeding. No one told her she had show but, mentioned the Roving was going to be in her area and invited her to attend.

Mardelin 01-14-2011 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3394091)
A champion stud has the potential to sire 100's to even 1000 of pups in his lifetime because of his popularity. Where as the stud of a hobby breeder would be much less.
Yes, there are those that breed to the flavor of the month. However, if one is breeding correctly that is not how you establish a line. I will say that the breeders that know what they are doing will not do this and they as I do not allow their boys to be used for public studding.

Now, there are a few dogs out there that have put their stamp on many a wonderful line; Pastoral Johnnie handsome for one sired 60 Champions in the US alone.....however, he was only allowed to stud quality bitches owned by famous reputable breeders. Durrer's Tin Whistle is another......you find him in quite a few famous lines. Both of these boys did nothing to hurt the breed, but enhance it.

Nancy1999 01-14-2011 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3394178)
Yes, there are those that breed to the flavor of the month. However, if one is breeding correctly that is not how you establish a line. I will say that the breeders that know what they are doing will not do this and they as I do not allow their boys to be used for public studding.

Now, there are a few dogs out there that have put their stamp on many a wonderful line; Pastoral Johnnie handsome for one sired 60 Champions in the US alone.....however, he was only allowed to stud quality bitches owned by famous reputable breeders. Durrer's Tin Whistle is another......you find him in quite a few famous lines. Both of these boys did nothing to hurt the breed, but enhance it.

Great post Mary, I think many inexperienced breeders think that breeding their bitch to a winning stud will automatically improve their lines. Breeders who pass around their studs to anyone willing to pay the stud fee are no better than breeders whose primary purpose of breeding is making money. I know some breeders get angry when someone won't allow their stud to mate with their dogs, but this is a serious thing to the responsible breeder, and the results will affect the reputation of the stud's owner, as it should.

Mardelin 01-14-2011 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3394194)
Great post Mary, I think many inexperienced breeders think that breeding their bitch to a winning stud will automatically improve their lines. Breeders who pass around their studs to anyone willing to pay the stud fee are no better than breeders whose primary purpose of breeding is making money. I know some breeders get angry when someone won't allow their stud to mate with their dogs, but this is a serious thing to the responsible breeder, and the results will affect the reputation of the stud's owner, as it should.
You're right Nancy, should something go wrong with the breeding the stud always take the brunt of the blame.

JeanieK 01-14-2011 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3394155)
It's not what you posted a few days ago.

I know some very famous exhibitor breeders that place their pet pups for $1,000.00. No differenciating from male or female and these are from Champion Sired and Champion Dam. Champions they Championed. But, then again their purpose to find the right homes for pups and I do know they've at placed not sold them,

But, that's neither here nor there. This person wants to know about breeding. No one told her she had show but, mentioned the Roving was going to be in her area and invited her to attend.
What did I say a few days ago that is contradictory to what I said here?

JeanieK 01-14-2011 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3394178)
Yes, there are those that breed to the flavor of the month. However, if one is breeding correctly that is not how you establish a line. I will say that the breeders that know what they are doing will not do this and they as I do not allow their boys to be used for public studding.

Now, there are a few dogs out there that have put their stamp on many a wonderful line; Pastoral Johnnie handsome for one sired 60 Champions in the US alone.....however, he was only allowed to stud quality bitches owned by famous reputable breeders. Durrer's Tin Whistle is another......you find him in quite a few famous lines. Both of these boys did nothing to hurt the breed, but enhance it.
I am sure that there are wonderful show breeders that produce wonderful dogs. My comment was made in reply to this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 3393799)
There are a lot of "things" that make a dog breed worthy and not breed worthy. One of the most important is health. The Yorkie breed has alot of genetic defects that keep being bred over and over by people wanting to make a fast buck, or think their little girl or boy is the cutest ever and want them to have puppies. :(

The best thing that most people can do, is have their pet spayed and neutered and LOVE them to pieces as the PET they deserve to be ;)
The problem with forums, is someone will take one sentence out of context and make an issue out of it. There are people on here who have that practice down to a fine art.

I did not say "all" show breeders or "most" show breeders, or even "many" show breeders. But the popularity of a champion stud can produce 1000 or more pups in his lifetime, and if that dog happens to carry a bad gene, it will spread like wildfire.

TLC indicated that this would be done by people trying to make a fast buck where realistically it is more likely that a champion dog would spread a bad gene much more widely than a pet owner that just wants a litter of pups.

JeanieK 01-14-2011 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3394105)
Why should the number matter? Even one sick pup is too many. Nor am I convinced that a hobby breeder would produce less.
Well 1000 pups carrying that gene can produce many thousand more pups. With small hobby breeders, and one time pet breeders, most of those offspring are sold as pets. So although there might be a few dogs produced that carry the gene it will not spread as ffar and wide as a champion dog would.

Again my comment was made to this post. Which indicated that only hobby breeders or onetime pet breeders would spread a bad gene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 3393799)
There are a lot of "things" that make a dog breed worthy and not breed worthy. One of the most important is health. The Yorkie breed has alot of genetic defects that keep being bred over and over by people wanting to make a fast buck, or think their little girl or boy is the cutest ever and want them to have puppies. :(

The best thing that most people can do, is have their pet spayed and neutered and LOVE them to pieces as the PET they deserve to be ;)
Please keep things in context and it will cause a lot less arguments on here. I made a very valid point.

Nancy1999 01-14-2011 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3394311)
I am sure that there are wonderful show breeders that produce wonderful dogs. My comment was made in reply to this post.



The problem with forums, is someone will take one sentence out of context and make an issue out of it. There are people on here who have that practice down to a fine art.

I did not say "all" show breeders or "most" show breeders, or even "many" show breeders. But the popularity of a champion stud can produce 1000 or more pups in his lifetime, and if that dog happens to carry a bad gene, it will spread like wildfire.

TLC indicated that this would be done by people trying to make a fast buck where realistically it is more likely that a champion dog would spread a bad gene much more widely than a pet owner that just wants a litter of pups.
I think you are missing the point that these are breeders who are trying to make a fast buck, and they aren't really fooling anybody, except other breeders who are trying to make a fast buck.

No one is trying to make an issue out of anything, I thought it would be helpful for you to know that this type of breeder who studs her dog out like this is not admired or looked upon favorably by reputable breeders. You are quite fast to pick out everything that bad show breeders do, but that's the point, they are bad breeders who show. Whether you show or not studding your dog out like this is a sign of a bad breeder.

JeanieK 01-14-2011 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley10 (Post 3393853)
I have one more comment then I will leave this alone.

I am a VERY STRONG advocate for "Don't Shop, Adopt!"

This is the first time in years I've considered breeding a dog. I am feeling just a little bit hurt by these replies. You're treating me as if I am stupid.

I thought the only stupid questions are the ones not asked.

Thanks for making me feel so small.
I'm sorry that no one would give you a valid answer. I'm not a show person so I cannot answer all of your questions.

I do know that there are show breeders who will breed a female that is over 7 pounds if she has other show qualities, in hopes of getting a puppy that has her other qualities but is smaller. There is a lot more to breeding than there appears to be. The best thing to do is to find a good breeder to mentor you. And if you want to get into showing, go to shows and meet people and ask questions.

JeanieK 01-14-2011 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3394325)
I think you are missing the point that these are breeders who are trying to make a fast buck, and they aren't really fooling anybody, except other breeders who are trying to make a fast buck.

No one is trying to make an issue out of anything, I thought it would be helpful for you to know that this type of breeder who studs her dog out like this is not admired or looked upon favorably by reputable breeders. You are quite fast to pick out everything that bad show breeders do, but that's the point, they are bad breeders who show. Whether you show or not studding your dog out like this is a sign of a bad breeder.
AGAIN my comment was in referenceto TLCs post. It does not have to be someone trying to make a fast buck. It could be a show breeder with a champion dog that is in popular demand. I did not say they would do it knowingly. I did not say they were bad. I did not say they would do it for money. Those are your words not mine.

Don't be so quick to look for negative. I made a valid point. the potential is much greater for a champion stud dog to spread his genes, both good and bad, far and wide, before anyone even knows there is a bad gene.

Rhetts_mama 01-14-2011 09:09 PM
[QUOTE=JeanieK;3394323]Well 1000 pups carrying that gene can produce many thousand more pups. With small hobby breeders, and one time pet breeders, most of those offspring are sold as pets. So although there might be a few dogs produced that carry the gene it will not spread as ffar and wide as a champion dog would.

Again my comment was made to this post. Which indicated that only hobby breeders or onetime pet breeders would spread a bad gene.


QUOTE]


But it's an invalid assumption to make that all 1000 (and I still think that number is greatly exaggerated) pups would be breed worthy and then go on to breed even more sick pups. Those that were not considered breed or show worthy would be placed in pet homes on spay/neuter contracts. And to be very honest, I see a lot more hobby/backyard breeders who breed and sell without spay neuter contracts on their pups, so the potential for bad genes being spread is exponential. Either no breeding dog needs to be tested or they all do.

Breezeaway 01-14-2011 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3394178)
Yes, there are those that breed to the flavor of the month. However, if one is breeding correctly that is not how you establish a line. I will say that the breeders that know what they are doing will not do this and they as I do not allow their boys to be used for public studding.

Now, there are a few dogs out there that have put their stamp on many a wonderful line; Pastoral Johnnie handsome for one sired 60 Champions in the US alone.....however, he was only allowed to stud quality bitches owned by famous reputable breeders. Durrer's Tin Whistle is another......you find him in quite a few famous lines. Both of these boys did nothing to hurt the breed, but enhance it.
Isn't Hylan Acres one of those but yet she continues to breed and show Parti carriers from her line of dogs. Hylan acres is a member of the YTCA , Her sire produced Parti colored yorkies and this has been swept under the rug by the YTCA for 4 freaking years acting like they know nothing about it. Well they do, the YTCA continues to protect its own .They discriminate and they dictate.

The YTCA is a joke to all of us non members, they hide in their itty bitty forum and talk about us common folks

It seems the YTCA has no um rules as long as you can prove your innocent.
How freaking sad

Rhetts_mama 01-14-2011 09:30 PM
Here comes the YTCA bashing again... This is getting predictable. What thread number will this make this week?


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