can i get some breeder views?

[tammy8833]

This is bella now

she wouldnt put her tail or ears up for the camera
and her face is dirty from dinner..please excuse

avatar pic was last week right after her bath

[FlDebra]

Sorry to take so long to reply. I was out of town for the weekend and it turned into a long weekend as I stayed over another day to take my son to the doc. He is a football player at college and was injured AGAIN in Saturday game (separated shoulder) but he will be okay.

Bella is quite a cutie but in all honesty, I would probably be thinking of keeping her for a pet. Please do not take this as criticism, but she may not be the best choice for breeding. I know that is hard to hear when we are so proud of our pups. My first female was not breeding material either so I reluctantly had her spayed. I knew it wsa the best thing for the breed even though I really wanted puppies.

Bella's coloring is already so very light (especially for only 6 months old!) and not defined well where blue and tan meet. Females will especially lighten when bred and as they age. You want some good strong color in a young female. Here is the standard: "Color of hair on body and richness of tan on head and legs are of prime importance in adult dogs, to which the following color requirements apply: Blue: Is a dark steel-blue, not a silver-blue and not mingled with fawn, bronzy or black hairs. Tan: All tan hair is darker at the roots than in the middle, shading to still lighter tan at the tips. There should be no sooty or black hair intermingled with any of the tan."

I think she is also going to be over the weight standard and I really believe in the female weighing between 5-7 pounds to breed. If you think her petite structure is going to wind up giving her too narrow of birth canal, that would just be another reason not to breed. The broken leg would probably not be a problem, but that is a question for the vet. I cannot tell enough from the picture, but her proportions look good to me, they should be sort of square, as tall as long, same height at rump and shoulders. Her top line should be nice and straight. Second pic it appears to be, that is good. Can't tell about ear size as she has a lot of hair on them. Nice to trim the ear hair off the top third of the ear triangle (tipping the ear). First time a groomer asked if I wanted that done, I said NO! I thought she meant to actually cut part of the ear. LOL! There are so many things to check. Best to copy off the Yorkie Standard from the YTCA.org site and go down the list. You want her to be as close to each standard as possible. Some small things can be balanced by picking a complimentary mate. For instance, my male Ben, had large ears (he did wind up growing into them but they were still a little large) but my female had nice small ears. That worked -- pups had nice ears. Ben had shorter legs than shows like, Sadie was "up on the leg" as some say with the longer legged of the breed. Neither was really way out of whack but they complimented each other well. Some things you just don't want to pass along at all.

Not breeding her is just an amateur recommendation based on the color, unknown history, and potential size. You could get other recommendations -- I have not shown and had to get my own looked at, so I m not trying to say my word is gold, but I did try to study up. (Don't go by my avatar pics, those were during their awkward early puppy stages. Cute, but hard to see the standard. ) I am hoping some experienced breeders might see this thread and comment. You could post the pics in a new thread titled Please Evaluate for Breeding or something like that if no one else comments here.

As far as testing, you usually don't have the luxury to go back and test the grandparents after the fact. That is something to ask when you buy your pups. But if you can ask the breeder you got her from if they did test and what, that would be good to know info. Even more importantly, ask about other litters. Have any of the pups wound up showing genetic problems? Liver shunt, hip/knee problems, eye problems, etc.... You do not have to test the puppies other than the normal vet check. He should make sure to be extra thorough checking their joints. You want them nice and tight as pups. Even then luxating patella might not show for a while. Most of the other tests need to be done as they get a little older so it will be the new owner's responsibility to test, and yours to guarantee. In other words, you should cover that in your health guarantee portion of the sales contract. Some tests are more complicated and have to get outside certification, like CERF(eyes) and OFA (joints).

[gemy]

Tammy; about health tests, she is at the age where she should be BAT tested whether you plan on breeding her or not. Knowing if her liver function is normal, is very important to help provide the best opportunity for a long healthy life.

In terms of evaluating for breeding potential, you could look up shows in your area, and take her there, to be evaluated by breeders at the show.

Also some shows will have health clinics, where a lot of the tests can be done, pretty reasonably. CERF, OFA etc.

In your pictures I too see a very light silver color, and not at all what the standard calls for.

One of the other things you can do, is examine pictures, and videos of past show Yorkies, and see their color, movement and somewhat their structure.

[BamaFan121s]

Structure is certainly key when considering if a female is a good candidate for breeding. I have a female that I'd originally held back. She ended up being a bit on the larger side, at around 8 lbs. Her pelvic structure is so small, even if her size wasn't an issue, I wouldn't even breed her.

Others have brought up valid points as well in regards to health test and how she conforms to the standard.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Sorry to take so long to reply. I was out of town for the weekend and it turned into a long weekend as I stayed over another day to take my son to the doc. He is a football player at college and was injured AGAIN in Saturday game (separated shoulder) but he will be okay.

Bella is quite a cutie but in all honesty, I would probably be thinking of keeping her for a pet. Please do not take this as criticism, but she may not be the best choice for breeding. I know that is hard to hear when we are so proud of our pups. My first female was not breeding material either so I reluctantly had her spayed. I knew it wsa the best thing for the breed even though I really wanted puppies.

Bella's coloring is already so very light (especially for only 6 months old!) and not defined well where blue and tan meet. Females will especially lighten when bred and as they age. You want some good strong color in a young female. Here is the standard: "Color of hair on body and richness of tan on head and legs are of prime importance in adult dogs, to which the following color requirements apply: Blue: Is a dark steel-blue, not a silver-blue and not mingled with fawn, bronzy or black hairs. Tan: All tan hair is darker at the roots than in the middle, shading to still lighter tan at the tips. There should be no sooty or black hair intermingled with any of the tan."

I think she is also going to be over the weight standard and I really believe in the female weighing between 5-7 pounds to breed. If you think her petite structure is going to wind up giving her too narrow of birth canal, that would just be another reason not to breed. The broken leg would probably not be a problem, but that is a question for the vet. I cannot tell enough from the picture, but her proportions look good to me, they should be sort of square, as tall as long, same height at rump and shoulders. Her top line should be nice and straight. Second pic it appears to be, that is good. Can't tell about ear size as she has a lot of hair on them. Nice to trim the ear hair off the top third of the ear triangle (tipping the ear). First time a groomer asked if I wanted that done, I said NO! I thought she meant to actually cut part of the ear. LOL! There are so many things to check. Best to copy off the Yorkie Standard from the YTCA.org site and go down the list. You want her to be as close to each standard as possible. Some small things can be balanced by picking a complimentary mate. For instance, my male Ben, had large ears (he did wind up growing into them but they were still a little large) but my female had nice small ears. That worked -- pups had nice ears. Ben had shorter legs than shows like, Sadie was "up on the leg" as some say with the longer legged of the breed. Neither was really way out of whack but they complimented each other well. Some things you just don't want to pass along at all.

Not breeding her is just an amateur recommendation based on the color, unknown history, and potential size. You could get other recommendations -- I have not shown and had to get my own looked at, so I m not trying to say my word is gold, but I did try to study up. (Don't go by my avatar pics, those were during their awkward early puppy stages. Cute, but hard to see the standard. ) I am hoping some experienced breeders might see this thread and comment. You could post the pics in a new thread titled Please Evaluate for Breeding or something like that if no one else comments here.

As far as testing, you usually don't have the luxury to go back and test the grandparents after the fact. That is something to ask when you buy your pups. But if you can ask the breeder you got her from if they did test and what, that would be good to know info. Even more importantly, ask about other litters. Have any of the pups wound up showing genetic problems? Liver shunt, hip/knee problems, eye problems, etc.... You do not have to test the puppies other than the normal vet check. He should make sure to be extra thorough checking their joints. You want them nice and tight as pups. Even then luxating patella might not show for a while. Most of the other tests need to be done as they get a little older so it will be the new owner's responsibility to test, and yours to guarantee. In other words, you should cover that in your health guarantee portion of the sales contract. Some tests are more complicated and have to get outside certification, like CERF(eyes) and OFA (joints).

Thank you soooo much!!

no worries on the delay..im glad to hear your son will be ok...

she is a cutie..i didnt realize her coloring was too light..i assumed it was the typical blue n gold..thank you.. that makes much sense on the lightening females after whelping because my older female was black and now she has a lot of creamy cray running through her back.

at this time i cant see her being over the standard weight...i need to find a way to show in the pic what her size is..im going to hunt for my scale this weekend....i got to know what she weights now..lol

i do worry about her having to small a birth canal..but im trying to see if she does any more filling out before i spay..but then again if i breed to standard her coloring is an issue

on the testing i plan on doing more research and talking to my vet i am interested in it.

i know that my vet does check joints whenever we are there..he has a yorkie and seems to be very knowledge in this breed

Thanks again..i really appreciate your post.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by gemy

Tammy; about health tests, she is at the age where she should be BAT tested whether you plan on breeding her or not. Knowing if her liver function is normal, is very important to help provide the best opportunity for a long healthy life.

In terms of evaluating for breeding potential, you could look up shows in your area, and take her there, to be evaluated by breeders at the show.

Also some shows will have health clinics, where a lot of the tests can be done, pretty reasonably. CERF, OFA etc.

In your pictures I too see a very light silver color, and not at all what the standard calls for.

One of the other things you can do, is examine pictures, and videos of past show Yorkies, and see their color, movement and somewhat their structure.

Thank you...are the show breeders approachable??

thats really interesting that they have clinics at the shows for testing...

thank you for the heads up on the coloring

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Structure is certainly key when considering if a female is a good candidate for breeding. I have a female that I'd originally held back. She ended up being a bit on the larger side, at around 8 lbs. Her pelvic structure is so small, even if her size wasn't an issue, I wouldn't even breed her.

Others have brought up valid points as well in regards to health test and how she conforms to the standard.

so even though she was a larger size her pelvis was still to petite? thanks thats interesting..i will really like to take her to the vet when she has reached a year or more and see what he thinks of her pelvis..one person advised having her pelvis xrayed..i think i will do that unless he can tell from looking at her that she is too tiny in the frame..

thanks for that!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

so even though she was a larger size her pelvis was still to petite?

Yep, very narrow...too narrow for my comfort level. She doesn't complain though. I still have her and she's fabulously spoiled.