'Little Charlie'

[YorkieRose]

Believe it or not, some bitches will allow the breeder to use a breast pump...
I have had a few moms so full I could get enough to fill a bottle in a couple mins...

[Woogie Man]

I wouldn't expect to see an immediate turnaround since you just changed the formula, but the goat's milk is certainly a better choice than Esbilac. How much does Charlie weigh? The recommended feeding is 1cc per ounce of weight every 2 hours. You can feed a little bit less, just more often, and it may be easier on him. Make sure it all adds up to what he should be getting, however.

I think I read that you're tube feeding. I've never done this and have always used an eye dropper. I know some do recommend it (tube feeding), but it seems to me that it's a quick method that fills them up fast. I don't know enough about it to say, but I think it's better to fill their tummy a little slower, which may prevent the upset. In any case, I've had good results using the dropper method and have never felt the need for tubing.

Best of luck to you and Little Charlie. I know it's beyond exhausting to feed around the clock, but absolutely necessary.

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

This sounds so obvious that it's like a 'duh' moment. I've never heard a vet recommend this, though, and never have read anything where someone suggested it.

Is this something you have personally done before? It sounds like the mechanics of it would be ineffective and sloppy. I suppose you could get some small amount recovered, but it wouldn't be enough for a feeding.

If it were easy and practical, I would think there would be lots of info about it. While not disputing that Mother's milk is best, hand feeding a newborn is something that has to be done around the clock, every 2 hours. Due to that, I would recommend a tried and true method, which is what the goat's milk is.

Hi , And yes to your question, i did this many times, thankfully , no need to do it often ... but i rather do this than give the goats milk myself. I usually give the "a/d" food as a supplement to the mother if i have to milk the mom, for me it increases the milk production, along with a teaspoon of fat free cottage cheese 2 times a day.
I put the other puppies to nurse to the other nipples, so when the milk comes down , i squeeze out of the 2 big nipples near the vulva into a medicine measurement cup, it takes time, but soon the puppy will be nursing ... and no more need to be milking the momma.
Each one of us here at YT has different experiences and through sharing we can surely help each other a lot. MY vet has suggested it to me before, although i had already done it prior to his suggestion. You may have never tried it , but it is not uncommon , a lot of breeders are familiar with it.
XOXO

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Believe it or not, some bitches will allow the breeder to use a breast pump...
I have had a few moms so full I could get enough to fill a bottle in a couple mins...

I had a girl with a false pregnancy that I had to express and there was definately enough there for a feeding. But, there were no pups to nurse and her teats were very full. The milk spurted halfway across the room.

Milking a Mom to hand feed a baby is something I never heard of. I'll take your's and smartpuppiepets word for it. Can't argue with first hand experience, but I'll stick with the goat's milk .

[fullmoonyorkies]

Charlie is getting about 2-1/2 cc's every 2 hours. I'm praying his newest symptoms are not indicative of a bacterial infection.
Since he didn't receive the natural antibodies from his Mom, I'm worried. Until several hours ago, he did not constantly cry,
curl up into a little ball, nor was his abdomen looking swollen. He was small, yes...but still active.
I am grateful for the experiences shared and the hints I've received from people with much more knowledge than myself.
Many here have had sad experiences, where pups became ill or died. I know it happens, just feeling a bit tired, lost and
overwhelmed. Thank you everyone.

[Rhetts_mama]

If it were me (and I'm not a breeder) I would take him in now. In human babies, a swollen abdomen could be indicative of something called necrotizing enterocolitis- the closest thing I can find in dog litereature to it is "twist".

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I had a girl with a false pregnancy that I had to express and there was definately enough there for a feeding. But, there were no pups to nurse and her teats were very full. The milk spurted halfway across the room.

Milking a Mom to hand feed a baby is something I never heard of. I'll take your's and smartpuppiepets word for it. Can't argue with first hand experience, but I'll stick with the goat's milk .

I have only used Mom's milk for a problem puppy...too small, born too soon, not thriving...I use goat's milk also...but you have to remember I am OLD..and in the UK my father and other breeders had all sorts of homemade remedies and gadgets...some used a small suction cup devise to collect milk..LOL

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by fullmoonyorkies

Charlie is getting about 2-1/2 cc's every 2 hours. I'm praying his newest symptoms are not indicative of a bacterial infection.
Since he didn't receive the natural antibodies from his Mom, I'm worried. Until several hours ago, he did not constantly cry,
curl up into a little ball, nor was his abdomen looking swollen. He was small, yes...but still active.
I am grateful for the experiences shared and the hints I've received from people with much more knowledge than myself.
Many here have had sad experiences, where pups became ill or died. I know it happens, just feeling a bit tired, lost and
overwhelmed. Thank you everyone.

I know how you are feeling...it is so draining for you. I do not like the fact he is crying...I have a feeling there is a problem..I do hope if it is meant to be, he will rally and be well...if not, we know there is a wonderful place he will go..

[Sookie]

Why not take a syringe (without needle of course) and put the open end over the nipple and pull back on the plunger. That is the technique my vet tech uses.

Kalina had three puppies, all very tiny, but the smallest one just never took off unfortunately and we lost her. It is a heartbreaking experience but it's not unusual. Crying is not a good sign and I hope it is just a touch of colic. Good luck.

[fullmoonyorkies]

Sadly, Little Charlie has passed away. I did take him in to the vet's shortly after my last post yesterday. Even though the swelling in his tummy had gone down, and he felt warm to the touch...he was still softly crying off and on. Vet said his failure to thrive was not due to what I was feeding him, nor that I didn't keep him warm enough. It is thought he was just not as developed as he should have been (a preemie, in essence). His immature lungs (fetal lung syndrome) and digestive system were to blame mostly, so there wasn't anything anyone could have done. I'm going to go have another good cry...then hug the 3 healthy pups and their Momma.

[musiccitymom]

So sorry that you lost Little Charlie. You gave a valiant effort to save him.

[Woogie Man]

I'm so sorry to hear about Little Charlie. It does happen but that doesn't make it hurt any less. It's heartbreaking to invest so much time and emotion into one and they not make it.

RIP, Little Charlie. You fought the good fight....now rest easy at Rainbow Bridge.

[Sookie]

So sorry for your loss. He is in a better place now. Maybe he is playing with my Petunia.

[joann1166]

OMG!!! I am so sorry...I am sitting here at work crying with you. I can't imagine losing my "Charlie". I would be so distraught. You were a good mom and I know tried everything you could to help him make it. He is in a better place and playing with all the other furbabies that have went to heaven.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I have only used Mom's milk for a problem puppy...too small, born too soon, not thriving...I use goat's milk also...but you have to remember I am OLD..and in the UK my father and other breeders had all sorts of homemade remedies and gadgets...some used a small suction cup devise to collect milk..LOL

Pat, I did a search yesterday about using Mom's milk and couldn't find a thing on it. It's curious how there is such a lack of information about it. I've also never seen it brought up here in my time as a member.

Do you suppose that it's due to it not being as easy/practical for the average person? It just seems like there is info available about any subject, but on this I got nothing.

Having done this yourself, would you recommend this method to the average breeder or opt to suggest the goat's milk?