Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

[cj125]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

My question is where did you get this Connie?

Mary - it's right at the top of the page - Delegates Report. Why? Isn't it suppose to be public?

Yorkshire Terrier club of America

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by cj125

Mary - it's right at the top of the page - Delegates Report. Why? Isn't it suppose to be public?

Yorkshire Terrier club of America

Thanks, the only reason I asked is that it use to be published only in the membership page. So, I had never noticed the change.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Thanks, the only reason I asked is that it use to be published only in the membership page. So, I had never noticed the change.

Oh ok. Hey, are you going to the show this weekend?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by cj125

Oh ok. Hey, are you going to the show this weekend?

What show? My next show is the South Bay Show....but, I won't be showing Delilah....Since I'm mentoring Sunnie/Sonya and this will be her first show, I want to make sure I devote all my time to her. I remember my first show nerves. Although, she has it a bit easier. I had 3 dogs to groom and it was my first time out without my handler being there.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by cj125

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.ytca.org/Delegate%27s_7-10-1.pdf

Appalling is my first reaction. Disingenous, dangerously out of touch with what is going on. With the exception of an approximate reality in % of dog ownership and throughput with HVB's. Here is one extract I take issue with

John Lyons gave a presentation on The Kennel Club’s (in England) response to the 2008 and 2009 inquiries into dog breeding in England.

The impetus initially was a BBC documentary aired in August 2008 about genetic issues “bad breeding practices” there. The Kennel Club owns the breed standards, unlike in theUS where the parent clubs own them. England also has a very active animal rightspresence, and The Kennel Club reacted to this pressure and started re-writing the standards of 58 breeds. In November 2009 a government inquiry began by the Associate Parliamentary Group for Animal Welfare, which is a non-scientific, political organization
in England. AKC disagrees with the direction that The Kennel Club took in this matter and believes they are losing control of purebred dogs in England and giving in to outsidepressure. Another difference in England is that The Kennel Club does not do inspections, so they cannot assure the public they are protecting dogs under their registration auspices as is done by AKC. AKC has its own health and welfare advisory panel, has inspections, and the clubs own the standards. All these things distinguish our situation from England’s. We need to continually educate the public on all we do to breed good, healthy dogs, test for health problems, work to eradicate them through CHF
and other initiatives, give health guarantees, and utilization of CHIC. We need to reassure the public that we are part of the solution, not a source of problems. We also need to continually demonstrate why various breeds look the way they do, move the way
they do, etc., by showing the history of the breeds and the purposes of the breeds. Docking and cropping is a prime example, in that breeds that are the subject of this practice have a historical basis for doing so. The standard for various breeds exist because of what the dog was initially bred to do. We must continually remind the public of what we are preserving.


The red highlight represents what I believe to be incorrect. The Kennel Club for sure took action, and issued a letter to all Parent Breed Clubs to review their standards and to recommend to The Kennel Club revisions to same, vs a vs health.

The damage to purebred dogs reputation has been done, and been done Worldwide, with this BBC expose. Let me remind you all before you get too complacent that the old adage "those who get their message out first" tend to win the perception game. Also as all are aware we have some large opponents with deep pockets that must be chuckling about this expose. Nothing better to help support their crusade. I'm talking AR groups. I during this expose timeframe, in my own non dog business, got questions and comments from at least 10% of my clientele. Ummm, ya think the general public is unaware?

Each and every breed club better get on the bandwagon as far as their breeders go, and mandate breed specific health tests, that are supported by the most current scientific research.

Fallacious argument, as most of the breeds today do NOT do what they were bred to do. So just exactly what are you preserving? The looks? Looks without health is worthless.

From what I've read, what I've observed and felt, there are real risks vs a vs any pet ownership over the long term.

I have large and small dogs and live in a big city. Some things were brought home to me as to how the public in this city views dogs, and was made clear to me in bas-relief when I went on vacation a couple of years ago.

Camping in Lake Superior I encountered over 90% of people who understood dogs. Who understood large protection breed without any education on my part. Who kept their children under control, and whose children on their own knew how to approach or not large breed dogs. What a relief!. Who when approaching our campsite and our dogs barked, and I apologized said no apology necessary, they are doing what they were bred to do. How refreshing!.

In the city where I live, I'm used to ppl reacting with fear when I walk my large dogs. But what took me aback, was ppl's fear when I was walking my 4 lb puppy Yorkie. Ya gotta be kidding me! Has the public's perception of dogs been so marginalized for an adult to skitter in fear from a small dog?


And so the AKC can insure the public vs a vs the health of the dogs they are purchasing??? Poppy cock.


I don't know what the answer is. But I am disappointed in our major registry clubs, saddened and more importantly frightened about the future of purebred dog and even just dog ownership in our continent.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by jeaniek

the tone was in your head, not in mine. Don't reflect your thoughts into my post.

If yhou think twiddling your thujmbs is more worthwhile than crusading agains puppy mills then by all means do it.

If you think bashing parti breeders is more worthwhile than crusading against puppy mills, than by all means, continue to do so.

There is no way that i am going to make you believe anything other than what you want to believe so i'm going to take my own advice and stop wasting my time on you, and find something more worthwhile to do, like crusading against puppy mills.

You may remain here and continue to waste your time bashing parti breeders since you seem to think that is more important. But i can assure you, it is a total waste of time cause we are not going to go away.

twist and shout!! Lol

[yorkiekist]

Couldnt AkC cut some of their own costs so they are not so dependent on mills for revenue? Like get rid of that office building in Manhattan? Like our own government, get rid of some perks and the branching out like the AkC store. I am sure there are many extravegant programs and such that could be elliminated.
Lower entry fees at shows so more people enter.(kind of like lowering taxes)

I do think that AkC needs a facelift. They are giving themselves a black eye by association with Hunt corp.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

twist and shout!! Lol

What a pity, that you have nothing more worthwhile to do with your time.

In case you haven't noticed, this conversation has changed to to a worthwhile discussion. You are the only one who found a need to go back and revive that foolish discussion.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by gemy

Appalling is my first reaction. Disingenous, dangerously out of touch with what is going on. With the exception of an approximate reality in % of dog ownership and throughput with HVB's. Here is one extract I take issue with

John Lyons gave a presentation on The Kennel Club’s (in England) response to the 2008 and 2009 inquiries into dog breeding in England.

The impetus initially was a BBC documentary aired in August 2008 about genetic issues “bad breeding practices” there. The Kennel Club owns the breed standards, unlike in theUS where the parent clubs own them. England also has a very active animal rightspresence, and The Kennel Club reacted to this pressure and started re-writing the standards of 58 breeds. In November 2009 a government inquiry began by the Associate Parliamentary Group for Animal Welfare, which is a non-scientific, political organization
in England. AKC disagrees with the direction that The Kennel Club took in this matter and believes they are losing control of purebred dogs in England and giving in to outsidepressure. Another difference in England is that The Kennel Club does not do inspections, so they cannot assure the public they are protecting dogs under their registration auspices as is done by AKC. AKC has its own health and welfare advisory panel, has inspections, and the clubs own the standards. All these things distinguish our situation from England’s. We need to continually educate the public on all we do to breed good, healthy dogs, test for health problems, work to eradicate them through CHF
and other initiatives, give health guarantees, and utilization of CHIC. We need to reassure the public that we are part of the solution, not a source of problems. We also need to continually demonstrate why various breeds look the way they do, move the way
they do, etc., by showing the history of the breeds and the purposes of the breeds. Docking and cropping is a prime example, in that breeds that are the subject of this practice have a historical basis for doing so. The standard for various breeds exist because of what the dog was initially bred to do. We must continually remind the public of what we are preserving.


The red highlight represents what I believe to be incorrect. The Kennel Club for sure took action, and issued a letter to all Parent Breed Clubs to review their standards and to recommend to The Kennel Club revisions to same, vs a vs health.

The damage to purebred dogs reputation has been done, and been done Worldwide, with this BBC expose. Let me remind you all before you get too complacent that the old adage "those who get their message out first" tend to win the perception game. Also as all are aware we have some large opponents with deep pockets that must be chuckling about this expose. Nothing better to help support their crusade. I'm talking AR groups. I during this expose timeframe, in my own non dog business, got questions and comments from at least 10% of my clientele. Ummm, ya think the general public is unaware?

Each and every breed club better get on the bandwagon as far as their breeders go, and mandate breed specific health tests, that are supported by the most current scientific research.

Fallacious argument, as most of the breeds today do NOT do what they were bred to do. So just exactly what are you preserving? The looks? Looks without health is worthless.

From what I've read, what I've observed and felt, there are real risks vs a vs any pet ownership over the long term.

I have large and small dogs and live in a big city. Some things were brought home to me as to how the public in this city views dogs, and was made clear to me in bas-relief when I went on vacation a couple of years ago.

Camping in Lake Superior I encountered over 90% of people who understood dogs. Who understood large protection breed without any education on my part. Who kept their children under control, and whose children on their own knew how to approach or not large breed dogs. What a relief!. Who when approaching our campsite and our dogs barked, and I apologized said no apology necessary, they are doing what they were bred to do. How refreshing!.

In the city where I live, I'm used to ppl reacting with fear when I walk my large dogs. But what took me aback, was ppl's fear when I was walking my 4 lb puppy Yorkie. Ya gotta be kidding me! Has the public's perception of dogs been so marginalized for an adult to skitter in fear from a small dog?


And so the AKC can insure the public vs a vs the health of the dogs they are purchasing??? Poppy cock.


I don't know what the answer is. But I am disappointed in our major registry clubs, saddened and more importantly frightened about the future of purebred dog and even just dog ownership in our continent.

If the breed clubs meet every year, what hasn't this issue been addressed?
It has to start with the members of these clubs, and work it's way up.

As for setting the standards for what the breeds were originally bred for, how is a long silky coat helpful for going into underbrush digging out varmits?

[yorkielady06]

Or that exact blue coat? Or just about anything associated with todays Yorkie except its size?
I for one would love to not have to take a litter of pups and dock tails. It breaks my heart every time. To hear them when it is happening and after. But the standard calls for it so it is done.
There are so many things that are done because it has always been done that way. And until there are enough voices it will not change.

I think the AKC has its feet firmly planted on both sides of the fence. To be that large it has to be in some senses. I may not agree with them being in bed with the puppy mills, I do agree with them lobbying in my behalf to protect every single ethical hobby breeder and even the show breeders. But to do that they will also be protecting all the BYB and puppy mills until new rules are written.

When we ask for more humans to police the police, then someone to police them it starts to become a tangled web to weave. Eventually there is breakdown and corruption (as today shows). When people can come on here that show and say they can show a "dead cat" and champion it, what is that telling us?? It tells me volumes as it should to every one of you. Especially ones that sit as members of the mother club.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Or that exact blue coat? Or just about anything associated with todays Yorkie except its size?
I for one would love to not have to take a litter of pups and dock tails. It breaks my heart every time. To hear them when it is happening and after. But the standard calls for it so it is done.
There are so many things that are done because it has always been done that way. And until there are enough voices it will not change.

I think the AKC has its feet firmly planted on both sides of the fence. To be that large it has to be in some senses. I may not agree with them being in bed with the puppy mills, I do agree with them lobbying in my behalf to protect every single ethical hobby breeder and even the show breeders. But to do that they will also be protecting all the BYB and puppy mills until new rules are written.

When we ask for more humans to police the police, then someone to police them it starts to become a tangled web to weave. Eventually there is breakdown and corruption (as today shows). When people can come on here that show and say they can show a "dead cat" and champion it, what is that telling us?? It tells me volumes as it should to every one of you. Especially ones that sit as members of the mother club.

Yes the entire show scene has lost a lot of it's merit. When judges are not ethical, what can one expect.

I believe if all of the breed clubs approached the AKC and threatened to go to one of the smaller registries the AKC would wake up.

But the general public still believes if they are AKC they are top shelf dogs. They would need to start a national ad campeign to educate the public.

But I still think one huge step would be to legislate the selling of pets in stores, and the use of brokers. In the UK you can only buy from the breeder.

[peachbongi]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Couldnt AkC cut some of their own costs so they are not so dependent on mills for revenue? Like get rid of that office building in Manhattan? Like our own government, get rid of some perks and the branching out like the AkC store. I am sure there are many extravegant programs and such that could be elliminated.
Lower entry fees at shows so more people enter.(kind of like lowering taxes)

I do think that AkC needs a facelift. They are giving themselves a black eye by association with Hunt corp.

If the AKC cut back like "our own government" we would all be screwed!

[peachbongi]

The remainder of the meeting was a dynamic presentation by Patti Strand entitled
“Preserve Purebreds: Preserve Dog Ownership Rights.” The public needs to have
all the facts in front of them, not the mis-information touted by AR groups such as HSUS
and PETA. Most people truly value the animal-human relationship and would be
horrified to know that the true goals of these groups is to destroy this relationship and end
up with a world where there are no more pets. Recent US pet censuses reveal that future
trends may lead us down that very path. Marketing, legislative, and fundraising
campaigns of our opponents focus public attention on the problems and the media then
caters to ratings rather than to balanced reporting. The coverage of the Michael Vick
case and every “puppy mill raid” are prime examples. On the legislative front, even
when we eventually defeat bad bills, the public perceptions have been slanted and
influenced adversely, closer and closer to the AR agenda with each campaign they hear
about. So let’s take a look at the real facts about pets and where they are going to come
from in the future. If current trends continue, by 2018 only 220,000 AKC dogs will be
registered. Purebred dogs from hobby, backyard, and commercial breeders are ALL
down. International sources, both legal and illegal, are rising. Petfinders is the biggest
source of dogs for the public today. In 2008 between 78% and 87% of all dogs were
neutered, as shelters only adopt after neutering and many breeders sell only neutered pets.
To replace the dogs currently in US households today, 7.9% of those dogs will need to be
replaced annually. Today there are 72 million dogs in US homes, so that means 5.7
million new dogs are needed annually. By 2018, with current trends, there will be a
shortage of 1.86 million dogs! In only two to four years we will be unable to replace
dogs as needed. We have the highest rate of dog ownership in the world at 39%, with
France next at 25%, UK at 18%, and Germany at 13%. If current trends in breeding
continue, pet ownership has only one way to go: DOWN. We need to point this out to
the public so they see where trends are leading. We must promote AKC at every
opportunity. To do this we must tell the positive story of responsible dog ownership,
good breeding practices, health testing, health research and improvements, CHIC, and
CAR. A negative focus led by the AR movement and fueled by the media is leading us
to a world with no more pets. Only those armed with knowledge can stop this trend.


Anyone else find this information surprising?!? I would love to see the census talked about here. This seems so completely opposite from what we are taught from various sources. Confusing

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Or that exact blue coat? Or just about anything associated with todays Yorkie except its size?
I for one would love to not have to take a litter of pups and dock tails. It breaks my heart every time. To hear them when it is happening and after. But the standard calls for it so it is done.
There are so many things that are done because it has always been done that way. And until there are enough voices it will not change.

I think the AKC has its feet firmly planted on both sides of the fence. To be that large it has to be in some senses. I may not agree with them being in bed with the puppy mills, I do agree with them lobbying in my behalf to protect every single ethical hobby breeder and even the show breeders. But to do that they will also be protecting all the BYB and puppy mills until new rules are written.

When we ask for more humans to police the police, then someone to police them it starts to become a tangled web to weave. Eventually there is breakdown and corruption (as today shows). When people can come on here that show and say they can show a "dead cat" and champion it, what is that telling us?? It tells me volumes as it should to every one of you. Especially ones that sit as members of the mother club.

Again words have been changed. What has been said, is that handlers can finish a dead cat, as professional handling is their business. No member has ever said that "we" can finish a dead cat

[yorkielady06]

Sorry Mary that was not what I meant and I am sorry if I miss quoted but the meaning is the same.
IF a handler can "show a dead cat" and champion it...what is that saying for judging? Is that not who tells you that your breeding program is where it is at? If so then what credibility is there? That was my meaning. Not that one of you personally could show a dead cat. I would think that you of all people would walk in with the closes to perfect, but if a dyed dog wins over yours what does that say to you? Should the mother clubs not be working on this issue? Are they?