Said before and say again, very interesting, informing thread! :thumbup:

Disney i agree with you while the traditional yorkie is not new to me, i have only owned the Biewers for around 3 yrs so i am always looking for more info
on both and have learned so much from YT. :)

Me too! Honest, I thought Silky and Yorkie same for long time!

I have never owned a silky but the ones i have seen look like the yorkie except for size

They also has longer snout and different shape body

The silky has longer legs, and shorter coat. I don't think they are nearly as cute as the yorkie. About the only thing that is the same is the coloring.

Silky has amazing disposition but. I agrees with JeanieK (shocking! :p) They not as cute as yorkie but they very fun doggie!

NO as long as they are pure bred yorkies they cannot be a separate breed. You cannot trake any breed fand breed for a different color and then make it a breed of it'sown.

In order to start a new breed you have to use 3 different breeds and it takes years and years to get it to the point where you are just breeding your nesw breed togetherand the results are opredictable.

It is impossible to get the parti color yorkie accepted as a breed other than a yorkie.

if you do not believe me, contact the AKC and ask them.

Just because the YTCA has DQ'd them, does not mean it is a dead end. The YTCA is not static, it is constantly changing members, so in the future a vote might bring entirely different results. mabe not in my lifetime, but it can happen.

lol. :)

Miracle can happen! :p :)

So how did breeds like Cocker Spaniels and Poodles get their different color classifications and dachshunds get 3 recognized coat textures? I honestly don't see how partis or biewers are excluded when the AKC recognizes color variations in other breeds.

Yes they can happen.

not wanting to start an argument, but it's not that I disagree with all that you say. I do believe that people should not voice strong opinions on ethics until they thoroughly understand both sides of the controversy.

It's not always so black and white, so unless one is personally involved they do not understand all they grey areas, so they cannot form an opinion based on experience, they are just making judgements based on hearsay.

You have to know a persons motive before you can judge them.

For example, it has been said, right here in this thread, that breeders will sometimes breed dogs, that do not meet the standard, in order to correct a fault in their line.

Breeding a dog with a fault is said to be unethical, unless it is being done for a good reason.

Dogs that carry the parti gene are said to have a fault. But if they are being exhibited in order to find out if they are worthy of being bred, so the breeder can improve their line, that should not be considered unethical.

Wwe are not breeding just to breed, we are trying to develop the parti into a great dog.

Does that make sense?

Also being fairly new on YT, you do not know what parti breeders have been told in the past. We were told, show your dogs, to find out if the are worthy of being bred, and so on. Now that they are showing they are being told they are unethical.

So you see there is a lot here that a new person does not understand, and therefore, in my opinion, are not qualified to make judgements.

That is just my opinion and do not want to start an argument.

Not impossible- as there are other examples. ;) Once one purebred breed, now two.
Supposedly the AKC sees Biewers as Yorkies, but they seem to be working with them toward recongition. ;)
And if you need three breeds, go back to the breeders who knew their mix registered as AKC purebred parti Yorkies for your documentation. You could probably easily find three breeds in partis if you wanted. As for DNA, sounds like you can dilute the gene pool enough to get purbred results back.

But if partis are not willing to put the time and effort in...that's every bit their choice. I do wish they would get a standard so they would be bred for the betterment and qualified to show.
Maybe that's not your goals IDK.

Even if the YTCA would ever remove the DQ, you still couldn't show a parti bc the colors are clearly described as blue and tan while the coat is of great importance. Some might be too light or too dark but they're still blue, while white isn't even close. And I wonder if it's true the AKC won't accept any more varieties. You'd need a complete standard revision.

Jeannie, this is where I see the difference.

Breeding a too-light or too-dark colored dog with another dog that you're confident will produce the right color is different than breeding a parti carrier because it will not correct a fault but produce the fault.

There are several variations/breeds in the Spaniels, each with their own color standard. The Poodles do have different colors, however, they are not parti colored and they are bred pheno type to pheno type.......

Each breed has developed their standard in accordance with how the breed was developed. Each mother club makes the decision of what they will accept and what they won't, not the AKC. The AKC will then decide whether or not they will accept the breed as a recognized breed.

I like to respond by saying I really admire you respond so politely with no personal attack. :) It mean more than you ever understand to me.

You raise valid point, and I do understand where you coming from. I do not voice opinion on subject I no believe I don't know enough about. If I not qualified, I butt out. I has studied parti gene and drawn own conclusions. Simply, my opinion is that they don't fit standard, therefore should not be breed. Don't know enough about the old debate because as you say, I new to this world and also to be honest, my literary skill not strong enough to properly understand pedigree yet.

I stand by opinion that yorkie should only be bred to standard. To me, it unethical to breed outside of standard. This only my opinion.

So while I agree with you on some point, I believe you need understand that you do not know me well enough to say what I do and not know.

Does make sense?

Their parent clubs allowed it. The YTCA is the parent club for yorkies. They are the only ones who can add color categolriwes to their standard.

That would not change the standard for the traditionals, it would just add a separate category for the parti.

Disney,

Let me add.....breeding a dog is not as simple as all that....breeding out of standard is.

Let's say you have a dog with a low tail set (a fault), but has all the other attributes that is desired within the standard. As a breeder you would want to correct that fault, so you breed it to a dog that can correct that low tail set faults. There is no perfect dog and a breeder that understands this and canine genetics, knows how to correct faults.....The same with bad ear sets, rears, fronts, laybacks, toplines, etc.

I learning about this Mary. I rephrase.

Breeding specific for fault, and not to breed out in long run is wrong to me.

The way I see it all members are equal on here and any member has a right to give their opinion no matter how much experience they have in the matter.

I understand what you're saying and agree. I've learned that you breed to correct faults, not to breed said faults in. But, one needs understand how to do this and understand that some faults may take several generations to breed out, while other's can be done with one or two generations.

As I have been stating as well as some others - you have to go by how the standard is written at the time you are breeding. Simple! One should be breeding as the standard is written.

I agree and thanks you. :)

I agree. I imagine lot of work and study go into this, it not just choosing two healthy pretty dog and hoping for best. You pick stud and bitch VERY careful for trait you wish carry on, and decide whether weakness worth the great quality, if weakness can be breed out.

On right track?

I agree, while some have more knowledge, others are attempting to learn. They may phrase their questions and/or statements in attempts to gain more knowledge.

Tina,

It's as simple as that.....you breed to standard or you don't.

But as I pointed out. Exhibitor/breeders do it all the time. They will breed a dog that does not meet the color standard in iorder to improve the color in their line. they will breed bitches over 7 pounds if she is correct in every other way.

So why is it wrong for us, but OK for them.

Also, those who are YTCA members, I think, (I'm sure they will correct me if I'm wrong), I think they pledge to uphold all of the rules and regulations of the YTCA. I also think that one of those rules is to NOT breed outside of the standard.

So they pledged not to do it, yet some do it anyway. We parti breeders did not pledge to do anything, so therefore we are not governed by the rules of the YTCA.

I would not join a group and pledge to abide by their rules and then break the rules. IMO that would be unethical, because they do not have to join the club, they do it by choice. If I did not like the rules, I would't join the club.

So far, so good.......

I hope this quote post help.

It different because they breed out fault. Parti breeding FOR fault, direct against standard.

Please inform if I post something incorrect. :)

Yup that is what we parti breeders are doing. So how is that any more wrong than the traditional breedrs who breed outside of the standard. A fault is a fault.

So see there is a double standard here. It's OK to do it if you are breeding traditionals, but not OK if you are breeding partis. So it is "do as I say, not as I do"