Originally Posted by gardenyorkies (Post 3212934)

The Yorkies that are blue/tan...blue/gold...black/tan...etc...are all dilutions of the same color....Adding white to the mix is altogether a different genetic matter...

If Parti color was allowed and Partis were repeatedly bred to blue/tan yorkies then eventually we would lose the blue/tan yorkies...A parti bred to a parti produces ALL partis...Sooner or later all yorkies would carry the parti gene...Allowing this to happen would not be protecting the Yorkshire Terrier as a breed...

I am sure that the members of the YTCA are trying to protect the Yorkshire Terrier from this happening...

And as far as Mary & Pat not being the only YTCA member to make rules...The YTCA is a democracy and the majority rules...I think the majority has made a huge statement the last time the standard was voted on! All grown up I believe!

Originally Posted by Disney (Post 3212990)

But shouldn't be about money. :(

Originally Posted by topknot (Post 3213179)

What some of you are doing are breeding dogs that are not to the standard. Plain and simple. This is a no argument, so I am not sure why this has gone as long as it has. You are trying to change the standard to suit yourself and what your preferences are. The Yorkshire Terrier standard is one that has been in place since 1865 (145 years), as I read in Gordon and Bennett’s book and that this breed was bred for the blue and tan color. In fact since 1865, the color of blue and tan (not white) was such an importance they gave a value to all specifics of the Yorkshire Blue-Tan of which color was given a 25 good blue and 25 for good tan for a total of 50 and a value point for coat only total 25, ears 10, and symmetry like that if Scotch terrier 15 points. I think the Foster’s would be turning over in their graves if they knew what some parti breeders were wanting – to change the standard. I did decided to go back again and re- research the standard point value through the years on the Yorkshire Terrier in reference to the standard and its color (blue/tan; blue& golden/tan) has always been the top importance or one of the highest rated in value. To my understanding trying to include the white to this particular breed would be changing the breed. It would no longer be recognized as its breed. I really feel, as well as many do, that trying to add the color white to the well recognized blue and golden/tan to the Yorkshire terrier standard is not advised for its betterment and protection of this breed we love so much.

Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 3213308)

:thumbup::thumbup: I personally do not like the look of the parti or Beiwer either. According to reports from the Biewer group that did DNA testing to find out the genetics of the Biewer, it was found there is very little Yorkie genes in them. They are the result ofgetting a mix in there. You think that didn't happen in the partis? Guess again!
YTCA doesn't want to change the standard to allow partis because they aren't yorkies and do not fit the breed standard for colour.
Call them something else and go through all the work,money, years, dedication it takes to have a new breed recognized. That would not bother anyone instead of trying to ride on the tail of an established breed so you can market them for big bucks as rare.
Here in Canada, there was a problem with some wanting Merle chihuahuas recognized. The Chi club of Canada worked very hard to not only have them not in the show rings, it has just been passed taht a merle Chi cannot be registered regardless of the registration of sire and dam.
A reputable breeder of any purebred dog and their parent club will protect that breed all they possibly can.

Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 3213374)

Genetics are way more complicated than you think. The Mars test may have shown your dog as pure yorkie although it is parti colour. Not sure how that works when the yorkie does not carry the pie bald gene to produce that pattern. Interesting isn't it?
So if the mix is dilute enough would Mars show a purebred? Dilute meaning the mix occured many generations ago but that gene to create the colour pattern is still carried forward.
I still have no idea why anyone would purposely set out to wreck a breed that is so not the breed standard.
There are wrong colours in other breeds that will not ever be recognized by the parent club. Black and white German Shorhairs pointers for example are a fault and are not recognized nor bred for. They are sold for pet if one turns up.
Why the yorkie ended up being targeted to try to destroy the breed is beyond my understanding.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3213383)

Destroy the breed? Have you looked at all the Puppymills with yorkies. They are the ones destroying the Yorkie.
The Partis are not trying to destroy the breed they just want a separate color variation.
I am carefully choosing what I am breeding, I am not breeding trash out to destroy the yorkie.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3213453)

Because the YTCA will not even discuss with the parti people a way to try make both sides happy nothing will ever get resolved. More and more carriers will just start showing in the ring, its inevitable and over time most of your yorkies will carry the parti gene, if they dont already. The only way to keep them separated is to give them their own standard and class.
So why not talk with us and try to get it sorted out so we can have our own variety and you can keep your standard as is.
No one ever gets anywhere if they wont even talk about it.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3213573)

If, in some hypothetical court, you could sue the YTCA for recognition, what would you offer as proof to your claim? I see 3 things:

1. Vague historical mentions of 'off colored' Yorkies.

2. Mars DNA profile, with its own disclaimer on the certificate.

3. AKC DNA profile, establishing parentage only.

Do you really think you would prevail? I think not and, IMO, the YTCA has already gone too far in calling the Parti merely a DQ. They should probably have said something like there is not enough evidence to establish the Parti as a pure bred Yorkie at this time.

What's really disturbing is the intention to deliberately put carriers in the ring. This does nothing to better the breed but only serves to corrupt the breed. It's an end-around the DQ.

Maybe the YTCA should make it a DQ for any dog with a Parti in its pedigree. With your stated intentions, which is probably shared by at least some others, the breed is in need of further protection.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3213603)

Even if Parti fanciers could prove that Paris are indeed pure bred Yorkies, that shouldn't be assumed to be a great leap forward into the ring.

Take the flop eared Yorkie, for example. No one would deny that they are pure Yorkies, but no one would put them in the ring, either. Funny thing is, there WERE flop eared Yorkies in the ring at one time. A great many early Yorkies had their ears cropped and were not naturally pricked. With the outlawing of ear cropping, those dogs instantly had no place in the ring, due to the breed standard.

So there is a history of dogs once allowed in the ring to no longer be. I'm certain those dogs owners had more of a case than Parti breeders but they had to yield for the betterment of the breed.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3213610)

Yes, that horse has already left the barn. I was saying what 'could' have been done but they chose to go the DQ route.

I personally don't think the AKC has the final say in what a breed club will recognize as one of their own. They have a vested interest in registrations (revenue) and have been shown in the past to not be beyond reproach. I don't know what went on between the AKC and YTCA at that time, but I'm sure there were discussions. The results are pretty clear, though.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3213847)

Some day some one might fight for a floppy ear category. I belive that is the only difference between the Cairn and the Norwich.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3213857)

You can bet that if someone with enough clout approached the AKC about getting the parti included in the show ring. The YTCA would either have to do it or lose their standing with the AKC.

The YTCA is the parent club of the yorkie, but the AKC has power over the YTCA. they say which clubs they will recognize.

Originally Posted by magicgenie (Post 3206519)

This is to announce the formation of a club for hobby breeders who would like to pledge to a code of ethics, get listed and network with other like minded breeders. Please check out Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders. Our motto is "ethics without politics." We don't judge you for things like tail length and coat color. We're interested only in promoting and rewarding good breeding practice. Membership is free but we will need people to pitch with their ideas as we grow. Please visit the web site, read the code of ethics and behavior, and contact Marsha to sign up.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3213896)

Once again this is the OP thread. Are the exhibitors that are posting here planning on joining the club? The idea is ethics without politics correct? This thread has gone way off key again and I for one apologize to the OP for my behavior/adding to the pot.:D

Originally Posted by Miracle Yorkies (Post 3210918)

Hello everyone. Thanks to everyone for your interest in the new club: YTCEHB. I haven't read all of the threads, but have read many of them. I became a member here at YT because of the interest in the club. I probably won't participate often as I find the site difficult to navigate and I happen to be one of those "thin skinned" people who choose to stay away from as much negativity as possible. And that is my right and my choice. And the sad part is that the majority of the folks here are good and caring folks. It sometimes just takes one bad apple to spoil it for me. So, I choose to stand on my own and with that, have created YTCEHB. This is a BRAND NEW club, it is GROWING and any new club will have its bugs to work out and its mountains to climb. It will take members to help it grow. It will take participation. It will take discussions. We have our own discussion group in place as well for the group members only. Right now, yes, it is slow. But with perseverance and growth, it will happen. For me, in a perfect world, we would all get along, help one another in the growth of what we do and respect the differences of opinions on some issues. YTCEHB is here for those of you who want to breed within a set of guidelines that promote ethical caring breeders, but also have the freedom to make certain choices without being judged by others or looked down upon. It is here for mature non judgmental caring breeders who love and care about the breed to help one another, learn from one another, learn from shows, learn from online groups, books, magazines, and learn in any positive ways that are available. I think most ethical caring breeders know the difference between right and wrong. We are not here to label anyone as a show breeder, hobby breed or back yard breeder. Labels are just that: "labels". And to try to agree on what that label means is just everyones' personal opinion. As far as the members listed with listings of their breeding programs on our website, I don't understand the problem with that. We are all proud to be members and want to get the word out about who we are and what we stand for. For me, yes, I LOVE breeding. I love the whole process. I LOVE having six litters a year. I love watching the puppies I produce look better and better as my breeding program grows. I LOVE making puppy buyers happy and giving them quality beautiful healthy puppies with beautiful ears, coats and faces. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have a great passion for what I do. We all have our own goals in life. Some want to show and produce the best show dog. Some want to produce beautiful healthy puppies to make people happy. And to be looked upon as breeders who do not care about the breed, to me, is just plain sour grapes. I respect those who show and am happy they are following their passions. In turn, I demand respect for those of us who are working hard to do our best to produce good quality puppies and love doing it. We all learn in different ways. Just as people who learn to be doctors or lawyers learn in different ways. We can learn in different ways. I learned to be a barber by going to school and getting my license. The gals who worked for me, learned by hands on training in my shop. Some people go to college to learn, some people go to trade school to learn, some people learn with on the job training, some people learn by reading, some learn by researching online. So, the same goes for breeding. And if your heart is truly in it, you will shine. If you are indeed an uncaring breeder, that will be known as well. Thanks and I look forward to more of you becoming members of our small but growing club.

Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

Marsha Pressley

Originally Posted by topknot (Post 3213179)

What some of you are doing are breeding dogs that are not to the standard. Plain and simple. This is a no argument, so I am not sure why this has gone as long as it has. You are trying to change the standard to suit yourself and what your preferences are. The Yorkshire Terrier standard is one that has been in place since 1865 (145 years), as I read in Gordon and Bennett’s book and that this breed was bred for the blue and tan color. In fact since 1865, the color of blue and tan (not white) was such an importance they gave a value to all specifics of the Yorkshire Blue-Tan of which color was given a 25 good blue and 25 for good tan for a total of 50 and a value point for coat only total 25, ears 10, and symmetry like that if Scotch terrier 15 points. I think the Foster’s would be turning over in their graves if they knew what some parti breeders were wanting – to change the standard. I did decided to go back again and re- research the standard point value through the years on the Yorkshire Terrier in reference to the standard and its color (blue/tan; blue& golden/tan) has always been the top importance or one of the highest rated in value. To my understanding trying to include the white to this particular breed would be changing the breed. It would no longer be recognized as its breed. I really feel, as well as many do, that trying to add the color white to the well recognized blue and golden/tan to the Yorkshire terrier standard is not advised for its betterment and protection of this breed we love so much.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3213907)

It's been a good informative discussion of parti vs non patri. and it didn't even get close. that's a PLUS :D

Originally Posted by shamrocks (Post 3214006)

Originally Posted by Miracle Yorkies (Post 3210918)

Hello everyone. Thanks to everyone for your interest in the new club: YTCEHB. I haven't read all of the threads, but have read many of them. I became a member here at YT because of the interest in the club. I probably won't participate often as I find the site difficult to navigate and I happen to be one of those "thin skinned" people who choose to stay away from as much negativity as possible. And that is my right and my choice. And the sad part is that the majority of the folks here are good and caring folks. It sometimes just takes one bad apple to spoil it for me. So, I choose to stand on my own and with that, have created YTCEHB. This is a BRAND NEW club, it is GROWING and any new club will have its bugs to work out and its mountains to climb. It will take members to help it grow. It will take participation. It will take discussions. We have our own discussion group in place as well for the group members only. Right now, yes, it is slow. But with perseverance and growth, it will happen. For me, in a perfect world, we would all get along, help one another in the growth of what we do and respect the differences of opinions on some issues. YTCEHB is here for those of you who want to breed within a set of guidelines that promote ethical caring breeders, but also have the freedom to make certain choices without being judged by others or looked down upon. It is here for mature non judgmental caring breeders who love and care about the breed to help one another, learn from one another, learn from shows, learn from online groups, books, magazines, and learn in any positive ways that are available. I think most ethical caring breeders know the difference between right and wrong. We are not here to label anyone as a show breeder, hobby breed or back yard breeder. Labels are just that: "labels". And to try to agree on what that label means is just everyones' personal opinion. As far as the members listed with listings of their breeding programs on our website, I don't understand the problem with that. We are all proud to be members and want to get the word out about who we are and what we stand for. For me, yes, I LOVE breeding. I love the whole process. I LOVE having six litters a year. I love watching the puppies I produce look better and better as my breeding program grows. I LOVE making puppy buyers happy and giving them quality beautiful healthy puppies with beautiful ears, coats and faces. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have a great passion for what I do. We all have our own goals in life. Some want to show and produce the best show dog. Some want to produce beautiful healthy puppies to make people happy. And to be looked upon as breeders who do not care about the breed, to me, is just plain sour grapes. I respect those who show and am happy they are following their passions. In turn, I demand respect for those of us who are working hard to do our best to produce good quality puppies and love doing it. We all learn in different ways. Just as people who learn to be doctors or lawyers learn in different ways. We can learn in different ways. I learned to be a barber by going to school and getting my license. The gals who worked for me, learned by hands on training in my shop. Some people go to college to learn, some people go to trade school to learn, some people learn with on the job training, some people learn by reading, some learn by researching online. So, the same goes for breeding. And if your heart is truly in it, you will shine. If you are indeed an uncaring breeder, that will be known as well. Thanks and I look forward to more of you becoming members of our small but growing club.

Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

Marsha Pressley

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3214011)

It has been fairly civil as can be for the "P" word, but was hoping for people that wanted to discuss the club to have a chance to do that without feeling intimidated. But hey I am but one, carry on...:p

Just an FYI I am working on joining the club.
I do have hopes to one day show a standard colored male in the ring (not me personally) but to have him handled by someone and shown. I live too far north and cannot travel far due to health issues. But I hope to have a boy soon (keeping fingers crossed) from championed breeding standard bitch to standard sire.
Some may find this unethical as my plan is to use champion lines to improve my parti line. So be it. I have decided to improve my lines by purchasing the best quality I can get and going from there. Maybe my skinkids will carry on with it when I am gone and maybe the beautiful partis will have their day in the sun. I am happy to join a club that will foster and hopefully show me the way in the show world without all the politics.

Originally Posted by shamrocks (Post 3214006)

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3214015)

I don't have anyone where I live that I hang with in the yorkie show world that owns or breeds parti's but if I came across someone that I liked doesn't mean I wouldn't be friends with them. That would go for someone of a different religion than me. While I don't condone the breeding of Parti's doesn't mean I couldn't be friends with someone that does. Just like with religion doesn't mean I can't be friends. It's just something I don't believe in.

I hope that answers your question.

Donna

Originally Posted by shamrocks (Post 3214033)

Yes it does , I see all the heat on this thread and it made me wonder just ow far this all goes. Thank you for answering my question.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3214047)

I bred my first litter of partis this year. Prior to that I was strictly standard. Never knew about partis or the other colors for that matter. Then I had a litter of pups with blues in it. Came on here and was terrified that they would be sickly and die horrible deaths. Those pups are healthy and in happy pet homes. I had them both neutered prior to placing them. But in that research came across the Partis and fell in love. I still love the standards too. :D
I know one lady in my area that shows, but have never associated with her. Not due to the fact that she only breeds standard colored Yorkies ;) but due to the fact that I have seen her pups and am not impressed. Working in the veterinary field and having many contacts in the Emergency Clinic gives me quite the insight into her practices and others too.
I have recommended people to YTCA site when looking for standard colored pups and have sent people to search out Mardelin, Nancy, etc when help was needed that needed their finesse;).
It is my opinion that when people are so passionate about their dogs and lines they tend to turn into bulldogs to defend them. Like I said before I just wish everyone was as passionate about the health screenings....

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3214052)

There is one thing I will agree with you too....and that is the health screening!! I'm just as passionate about health as I am the yorkie breed and to me that should go hand in hand :)

Donna

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3214041)

I just believe in what I believe in and I don't think I've been heated in any of my answers or posts :) But if I were friends with someone that breeds Parti's I wouldn't sell them a yorkie simply because I don't want that to happen :)
But again, if the person is nice and is a good person I see no reason not to be friends I just wouldn't condone their practices.

Donna