Question for breeders?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

I didn't want to say anything until I have more answers.....If there is no way to tell for sure then why bother. The breeder can always say *I* did something.....I was just curious in general if anyone knows if it is possible to pin point the cause......

Kidney failure can be brought on by food problems. LP can be genetic and or caused by injury as well as collapsed trachea. A broke leg is obvious. Parasites complication soon after the arrival to a new home, well that's obvious. Open fontanels, can be genetic, however it can be that is identified in one single tiny in a litter.

It all goes back to building a trust between buyer and breeder. I don't sell pups to people I don't trust & have a good relationship, as I don't expect them to buy a pup from me if they don't have complete faith in me.

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by gemy

For Kidneys there are a couple of genetic conditions that cause kidney disease - for the life of me right now I can't remember the correct names ... maybe glomulonephrosis? The vet should be able to help ascertain genetic/non genetic. Protein leaks into system

Thank you for this...Yes he is losing protein.....I just haven't brought myself to the point of going through all of these questions with his vet right now because of his of his prognosis clear.....I just don't know the when....That is probably why she said she felt it was genetic.....I didn't take that as an absolute diagnosis......

Today I checked out my one year health guarantee (I'm well past that) and it stated it does not cover "LP, trachea problems, Legg Perthes, liver shunt and hernias".... wow, what's left......I also went to her site today and I saw some things that left me with some concerns......I am just feeling so sad and upset by all of this, I'm tearing up just trying to type this up.......I'll tell her in my own time....maybe....

Thank you again.....

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

Thank you for this...Yes he is losing protein.....I just haven't brought myself to the point of going through all of these questions with his vet right now because of his of his prognosis clear.....I just don't know the when....That is probably why she said she felt it was genetic.....I didn't take that as an absolute diagnosis......

Today I checked out my one year health guarantee (I'm well past that) and it stated it does not cover "LP, trachea problems, Legg Perthes, liver shunt and hernias".... wow, what's left......I also went to her site today and I saw some things that left me with some concerns......I am just feeling so sad and upset by all of this, I'm tearing up just trying to type this up.......I'll tell her in my own time....maybe....

Thank you again.....

Wow! What did your guarantee cover?

[jp4m2]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Wow! What did your guarantee cover?

That's what I thought looking at it...What is left?!!.....All it says it covers is "congenital defects"......When I bought Jack he was my first yorkie, and that was five years ago. I found this site a couple of months later........ If I knew then what I know now........

[jp4m2]

Looking at the contract it says it covers (not that it matters at this point)....

......."any debilitating genetic/congenital defect ( a defect that would prohibit the animal from leading a normal pet life)....

[Cooper2010]

I did contact the breeder with the following email:

*****,

Could you please send me a copy of the copy of a contract of the purchase of Cooper? In the folder we took home there is a copy of the health certificate and AKC information,, vaccination information, etc. There is no contract or anything that covers your one year health warranty.

If you could fax it, my number is **********or mail it ****************.
Cooper is doing well, but as of the end of May our out of pocket cost on vet bills are $238.35 for the intial visit with the limp. A follow up two weeks later was $52.00. The surgery to remove the femoral head was $1,024.13. All of this was incurred within two months of owning the dog. We have done everything possible to give this puppy the best quality of life. You as the breeder bear some responsibility in this as well.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you,
**** ********


Here is their reply and I am so angry. Words can't describe my anger right now. Take note of the last paragraph.


Hello,

we are glad that Cooper is doing well...Dr. **** had told us that he was doing well when we saw him last week..

our one year health guarantee is Fl. Law:

puppy is covered for one year for congenital or hereditary diseases that are life threatening to the puppy.

we are sorry that you have incurred this expense, our guarantee is based on Fl Law and that is as far as our responsibility goes. as a new owner you take on the responsibility of the puppy. we are sorry that he had this problem but it is not anything that was foreseeable and this is not a problem that we have ever had in the 15 years that we have been breeding Yorkshire Terriers. we would not have ever sold you a puppy that we did not think that was 100% sound. you were present when Cooper received his Health Cert. and there were no problems found at that time. but as a new puppy owner you take on the responsibility of the puppy's health not covered in the guarantee. We talked to Dr. Allen and he said that it wasn't life threatening to the puppy. therefore the responsibility is yours.

We are Sorry but we hope you understand.

i wish you had just retunred him to us before surgery that way we could have found him a home willing to take on this responsibility and then you wouldn't feel bad about your out of pocket cost. you were never stuck with Cooper we would have taken him back but from your emails we thought you didn't have a problem with this and you wanted to take care of Cooper.

God Bless,
**** *** ******
I am beyond livid that they'd imply that I'm not taking care of this dog.

[Cooper2010]

I replied with this:

We have taken on the responsibility. I take offense to that last comment. We have done nothing but do right by this dog. Hide behind your "life threatening" clause. It's not life threatening but it's crippling and painful if left untreated. Your nothing more than backyard breeders. You never offered to take the dog back and even if you had I wouldn't give him back. Take my picture and my comments off your website. I have nothing good to say about you and would never recommend you to anyone else. You didn't have to insult us at the end of your reply. We have been very good to your (OUR) dog and will continue to do so.

BTW, Dr, **** hasn't seen him since his surgery, he wasn't there when he was sick the day after and he wasn't there when he had his stitches out. He just called my husband and told him the problem was genetic. That's the last I've heard from him and the dog is still not using his leg. Your response is truly insulting. We are very offended by your last paragraph. If that's what's in your contract then so be it, but you need not imply that we don't care about our dog. That's truly disappointing.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Cooper2010

I did contact the breeder with the following email:

*****,

Could you please send me a copy of the copy of a contract of the purchase of Cooper? In the folder we took home there is a copy of the health certificate and AKC information,, vaccination information, etc. There is no contract or anything that covers your one year health warranty.

If you could fax it, my number is **********or mail it ****************.
Cooper is doing well, but as of the end of May our out of pocket cost on vet bills are $238.35 for the intial visit with the limp. A follow up two weeks later was $52.00. The surgery to remove the femoral head was $1,024.13. All of this was incurred within two months of owning the dog. We have done everything possible to give this puppy the best quality of life. You as the breeder bear some responsibility in this as well.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you,
**** ********


Here is their reply and I am so angry. Words can't describe my anger right now. Take note of the last paragraph.


Hello,

we are glad that Cooper is doing well...Dr. **** had told us that he was doing well when we saw him last week..

our one year health guarantee is Fl. Law:

puppy is covered for one year for congenital or hereditary diseases that are life threatening to the puppy.

we are sorry that you have incurred this expense, our guarantee is based on Fl Law and that is as far as our responsibility goes. as a new owner you take on the responsibility of the puppy. we are sorry that he had this problem but it is not anything that was foreseeable and this is not a problem that we have ever had in the 15 years that we have been breeding Yorkshire Terriers. we would not have ever sold you a puppy that we did not think that was 100% sound. you were present when Cooper received his Health Cert. and there were no problems found at that time. but as a new puppy owner you take on the responsibility of the puppy's health not covered in the guarantee. We talked to Dr. Allen and he said that it wasn't life threatening to the puppy. therefore the responsibility is yours.

We are Sorry but we hope you understand.

i wish you had just retunred him to us before surgery that way we could have found him a home willing to take on this responsibility and then you wouldn't feel bad about your out of pocket cost. you were never stuck with Cooper we would have taken him back but from your emails we thought you didn't have a problem with this and you wanted to take care of Cooper.

God Bless,
**** *** ******
I am beyond livid that they'd imply that I'm not taking care of this dog.

I hope you do a breed review; this seems to sometimes work in getting breeders to face their responsibilities.

[Cooper2010]

I'm sorry Nancy, but what is that and what does it entail? I'm ready to do whatever at this point. I'm so offended.

[Cooper2010]

And I have the other emails if anyone thinks that I was complaining to them about the dog. I can't remember the last time I've been so angry.

[Cooper2010]

I sent this on 5/15:

I'm sorry to send this so late, but Dr.**** said I should drop you a note. Cooper has Legg-Perthes and he's having surgery to fix it when I'm back in town with him after this week. It started out as a limp and I took him in after 3 days to see another vet that was there on Saturday (he was off that day). She took x-rays and couldn't find anything, just said his hip might look a little thicker than normal and to bring him back in a month. I took him back today to see Dr. ****. He was much more thorough and the x-ray showed some worsening.

I feel weird sending you this because we don't know that this didn't come from some sort of injury. He said that he would drop you a note also, and that your dogs are some of the healthiest he's dealt with. He said that pathology could tell if it was genetic or an injury and that would be helpful for you to know for your next pups.

All that said, we just adore this little boy and we're doing what we can to make him all better so he can be a playful guy again and not have any pain. I'm not complaining to you about him at all, please don't think that.

I'll keep you posted and please feel free to contact me.

Thanks!

[Cooper2010]

Sent 5/24Hi,

Cooper is out of his surgery and waking up in recovery now. Dr. Allen said he was doing fine. I'll be able to pick him up tomorrow afternoon. Just letting you know
Hi,

Cooper is out of his surgery and waking up in recovery now. Dr. **** said he was doing fine. I'll be able to pick him up tomorrow afternoon. Just letting you know.

[Cooper2010]

Their reply:
THANKS FOR LETTING US KNOW..HE WILL BE IN OUR PRAYERS.

GOD BLESS,

[Cooper2010]

I have a ziplock bag of cookies that only a dog would eat. I have a freezer full of containers with rice, peas and lentils that I mix with his food. Yeah, I should have given him back to find a home where someone would be willing to accept the costs.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Cooper2010

I'm sorry Nancy, but what is that and what does it entail? I'm ready to do whatever at this point. I'm so offended.

Here's the breeder review forum, Breeder, Vet, & Groomer Reviews - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community just list their names and your experience with them. I think a good breeder would be willing to pay for surgery, up to the purchase price. When more breeders start taking financial responsibility, more breeders will stop and think about breeding as a way to earn an income. By listing the breeders name, or kennel name if they have one, you are helping educate others of the risks of buying from backyard breeders. People need to start understanding that many breeders' health guarantees are worthless.