Has anyone heard of this breeder~~~

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Elle

I could be wrong but it appears that it a typo. It doesn't make sense to say that followed by the rest of the things noted. Lets not get carried away by words. She's not new. She's always had a good reputation. As I said just yesterday most reputable breeders don't have websites. Who has time? This is one good reason.

Health testing is not required for membership. People need to do their homework.

No health testing is not a requirement, but it is in the code of ethics and conduct which are guidelines for us to follow.

That being said, testing your breeding stock, as it should be, doesn't guarantee your dogs won't throw pups with life-threatening genetic issues. What is as important will the breeder stand behind her guarantee, will she be there for the rest of the pups life. What the YTCA will do if such a situation arise is put pressure on the breeder to make it right. If a breeder doesn't make it right, she will be reprimanded and more than likely be removed from the roster.

And you're right, people do your homework.......I know my mentor never placed a puppy with me with a contract. The deal was always sealed with a kiss on the cheek and a hug....and the words "We'll see"......But, I know, by her reputation, her word was gold. If anything should ever arise, she'd make it right.....either by refunding your money, or taking care of the vet bills....

[Elle]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Oh ok I was confused to say the least I have a complete hysterectomy 2 weeks ago so its the lack of hormones...lol.
So how can a member of YTCA have that on her website and yet still be a YTCA member?
I know I spend lots on testing. Had awesome unrelated dogs that ended up spayed/neutered prior to breeding due to test results. I stand behind that on my breedings. Does it mean I won't have a LS pup? No, but I sure do what I can to avoid it. My first Yorkie was a LS pup from a breeder that did show and I thought that meant everything 10 years ago....boy have I learned alot. There are good breeders and bad breeders. There are good show people and bad ones too...I got the bad on both ends and decided to not be a bad one
Sorry again to confuse ya..

Take a deep breath. Just b/c Terry has this on the website does not make her a bad breeder. This is not fair to say this as it's slander unless someone has a basis for saying this. It's not to say that I support anyone that breeds for the wrong reason. But this isn't fair b/c it's a feeling about a concept that involves a real person. We can't attack a fellow breed fancier that has been doing good things to our knowledge. Do you think this is fair?

There is good and bad in all breeders. You have to trust and do your homework.

[yorkielady06]

Originally Posted by Elle

Take a deep breath. Just b/c Terry has this on the website does not make her a bad breeder. This is not fair to say this as it's slander unless someone has a basis for saying this. It's not to say that I support anyone that breeds for the wrong reason. But this isn't fair b/c it's a feeling about a concept that involves a real person. We can't attack a fellow breed fancier that has been doing good things to our knowledge. Do you think this is fair?

There is good and bad in all breeders. You have to trust and do your homework.

Not sure where the slander is? But I was not slandering anyone. I simply was stating what I do and why I do it. I have never even met this breeder. My question was simple about her stating she does not do testing and what the #4 on the YTCA site says about testing breeding stock. Maybe it is typo, I hope so. So please tell me where the slander is??
The bad breeder and show person was the breeder/exhibitor that sold me a LS puppy that would not stand behind her pup and contract. I was not saying that the Daisy Hill breeder was her...

[Elle]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Well I thought the YTCA required testing to be done on the sire and dam? This was on this ladies website....
"I do not do genetic testing. A lot of thought and careful selection go into my decision to breed any two dogs. Looking at pedigrees, inquiring about the reputation and background of a stud dog,using only the healthiest parents are the best way to ensure that the resulting puppies will live a long and healthy life. For this reason, in my ten years of breeding Yorkies, I have never experienced a single genetic or congenital defect."

It doesn't make sense. Think of how it sounds "I don't do genetic testing, I've never had a problem b/c I look at pedigrees, backgrounds and only use healthy selections?" She states that Terri Shumsky was her mentor. How would she say this on one page then on another that she doesn't do any testing? It must be a typo. Otherwise why bring attention to it?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Elle

It doesn't make sense. Think of how it sounds "I don't do genetic testing, I've never had a problem b/c I look at pedigrees, backgrounds and only use healthy selections?" She states that Terri Shumsky was her mentor. How would she say this on one page then on another that she doesn't do any testing? It must be a typo. Otherwise why bring attention to it?

The late, great Terry Shumsky/Vassar Square. Yorkie Exhibitor/Breeder/Judge and patron of the yorkie and founder of the Fannie Mae Liver Shunt Fund.

Again, I reiterate..do your homework, and it doesn't hurt to establish contact. Will this breeder stand by her breeding and puppies.....that is what is the most important. All the testing in the world does not guarantee that your dogs will not throw a pup with problems. All it establishes is that your pup does not have said problem. There is no Genetic Marker for anything. Liver Shunt can go for generations without rearing it's ugly head......then bam....the right two clean breeding pair are put together and here's a sick pup.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Not sure where the slander is? But I was not slandering anyone. I simply was stating what I do and why I do it. I have never even met this breeder. My question was simple about her stating she does not do testing and what the #4 on the YTCA site says about testing breeding stock. Maybe it is typo, I hope so. So please tell me where the slander is??
The bad breeder and show person was the breeder/exhibitor that sold me a LS puppy that would not stand behind her pup and contract. I was not saying that the Daisy Hill breeder was her...

I said it's slander to say she's a bad breeder without any basis for it. I'm all for closing down bad breeding. I know the pain, agony & financial burden of a LS yorkie. It's rotten and I'm very sorry that happened to you. I just feel pretty certain that Terry's is a typo. She was mentored by a LS pioneer. Can't see her throwing in the towel on testing now. I hope I'm right.

If I sounded like I was being motherly I apologize. I type so matter of fact.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Elle

I said it's slander to say she's a bad breeder without any basis for it. I'm all for closing down bad breeding. I know the pain, agony & financial burden of a LS yorkie. It's rotten and I'm very sorry that happened to you. I just feel pretty certain that Terry's is a typo. She was mentored by a LS pioneer. Can't see her throwing in the towel on testing now. I hope I'm right.

If I sounded like I was being motherly I apologize. I type so matter of fact.

I have to say i would much prefer a liver shunt pup to a pup with allergies from a poor immune system from an inbred line at least with a liver shunt pup there is surgery and a light at the end of the tunnel but a dog with a poor immune system there is no light just constant balancing act trying to keep them comfortable - very sad and this is from inbreeding as it is proven it will hurt the immune system by inbreeding so this is one thing I strongly feel is wrong. The LS there is no genetic marker yet but dr tobias and dr centers i think are trying to figure it out and hopefully they can.

Having dealt with allergies for 5 1/2 years and also hypothyroid both being immune mediated diseases it is a nightmare - itching, skin infections, and drugs - so unfair to the dog and owner as it is very stressful

[Elle]

Originally Posted by dwerten

I have to say i would much prefer a liver shunt pup to a pup with allergies from a poor immune system from an inbred line at least with a liver shunt pup there is surgery and a light at the end of the tunnel but a dog with a poor immune system there is no light just constant balancing act trying to keep them comfortable - very sad and this is from inbreeding as it is proven it will hurt the immune system by inbreeding so this is one thing I strongly feel is wrong. The LS there is no genetic marker yet but dr tobias and dr centers i think are trying to figure it out and hopefully they can.

Having dealt with allergies for 5 1/2 years and also hypothyroid both being immune mediated diseases it is a nightmare - itching, skin infections, and drugs - so unfair to the dog and owner as it is very stressful

I disagree Debbie. This is like saying I'd prefer a heart attack over a heart attack or cancer over HIV. Bad is bad, it's all terrible. I wouldn't wish any of it on anyone! Not all live through it. Although these women are remarkable in their professions, they are not God. I pity the nightmares you've endured with your babies. Most people wouldn't do all you've done. I've said it many times, you're an angel. Your pets are fortunate to have the best home they could have!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Elle

I disagree Debbie. This is like saying I'd prefer a heart attack over a heart attack or cancer over HIV. Bad is bad, it's all terrible. I wouldn't wish any of it on anyone! Not all live through it. Although these women are remarkable in their professions, they are not God. I pity the nightmares you've endured with your babies. Most people wouldn't do all you've done. I've said it many times, you're an angel. Your pets are fortunate to have the best home they could have!

I understand what Debbie is saying. Her dog's allergies are never ending, where LS can be corrected with surgery, granted diet will be something that must be monitored.

As I've said before. At any given time a breeder's breeding can produce a pup with a life threatening genetic problem, even with all the proper testing being done. It can happen to the best of them. Just because you test, doesn't make you reputable , it's how you handle the situation.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I understand what Debbie is saying. Her dog's allergies are never ending, where LS can be corrected with surgery, granted diet will be something that must be monitored.

As I've said before. At any given time a breeder's breeding can produce a pup with a life threatening genetic problem, even with all the proper testing being done. It can happen to the best of them. Just because you test, doesn't make you reputable , it's how you handle the situation.

Yep, you are right.

I can't imagine the pain of watching your baby crawl in their skin. Not being about to eat anything, touch anything or bath in things. It would be horrible! We share the same views.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I understand what Debbie is saying. Her dog's allergies are never ending, where LS can be corrected with surgery, granted diet will be something that must be monitored.

As I've said before. At any given time a breeder's breeding can produce a pup with a life threatening genetic problem, even with all the proper testing being done. It can happen to the best of them. Just because you test, doesn't make you reputable , it's how you handle the situation.

thanks as i have a friend who has a liver shunt surgery survivor and she is doing great eating food now no problems so it was a rough 6 mos to a year but then over like dex with pancreatitis not too much after that first year and been 4 years but this allergy thing is never ending. I really thought i had a good breeder she seemed really nice but when i called her and emailed her asking for help she of course had no puppies with skin issues but she knew they had poor immune systems as she begged me not to give dd the rabies vaccine as she had a dog die from it in her line so that was another sign I felt tormented as wanted to protect dd and yet she scared me but the vet told me she had to have this vaccine and then she got it and in 30 days she was a total mess itching incessently and when she was under for spay as i delayed the spay until 8 mos as i did not want her itching after operation and they cannot give anything to stop her itching after surgery or before so when she was under i had her scraped for mites, blood pulled for allergy blood testing, trachea xrayed as she had horrible reverse sneeze and back then had no clue what that was. I then when told she had allergies to everything very high as well decided to try holistic to build immune system for 6-9 mos driving 1 1/2hrs each way in traffic each way to los angeles to a holistic vet that was highly recommended and wrote a book etc. I did raw diet, immune boosting treatments etc then i ruptured my achilles and she was not getting any better so we went the traditional vet and drugs to keep her comfortable then to dermatologist and did atopica, you name it i have done it to try to help my girl cost not even being a factor just doing it - then she lost all the hair on neck and drove her down to dr dodds almost 2 hrs each way to have her thyroid tested and bile acids done again as she tested a little high but less than 100 so i had the liver shunt scare with her and she is hypothyroid. It has been an agonizing journey for almost 6 years now and we went that whole journey to end up putting her on temarilp just nuts. Then on steroids it affects joints and ligaments so she ruptured her acl. It has just been one thing after another with no end in site and dermatologist just told me as she ages she will get worse and to rethink the one thing i have avoided as i have read dogs can get worse by doing this hyposensitization shots so another year of pure heck to try that to see if it works and she could potentially get worse. so what do you do? I realize california is horrible for allergy dogs too but i got her from a breeder in california in my area. So having gone through all this and seeing my friend where she can take her dog anywhere not worry if she is going to catch something being on immune suppressant drugs having to titer to not over vaccinate and worrying and dd loves to go places but scared to take her around other dogs it just saddens me and i would have taken the liver shunt dog I could have repaired and flown to ut as i would have done that and stayed there for a week like my friend and another friend of mine with ls dog over this agonizing. Then when you ask vet if I should let her be peaceful by putting her to sleep which I would not do but have asked in desperation they look at you like no way would they do that like you are crazy so just up the meds and take the chance of another health issue to come. I am lucky i have the financial means as most people do not and even internal medicine said i feel so bad for you she has so much going on and most owners would not do what you have done and would just let her itch- how sad is that but i could see why as they cannot afford all this.

I know there are no guarantees in life but i just hope people are doing the right thing to try and get the best possible outcome especially if they truly care about the breed and dogs that is all we can ask for is at least try to get healthy dogs. I never asked for my money back or expected that but i at least expected some help from her breeder and she moved to oregon and never kept in contact after that. I always sent her pics of dd so she could see how she was doing but once she started having health issues it was like oh well. I always send pics to the rescue group i got demi from and they are very nice as i want them to see her progress just like i wanted the breeder to see as i would want that from someone i sold a dog to as well thought it was nice.