I want a Biewer/parti yorkie

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

When I raised Morgan horses, the standard was dark horses (bay, black, brown, chestnut) with little to no white but when my bright red colt was born with rear stockings that ran above his hocks, a blaze that wrapped around his face and a 4 inch belly spot (he's one of the first double registered pinto morgans), I watched him grow, decided to put my horse where my mouth was and in the show ring he went.

The American Morgan Horse Association was open to all and though I was told that most Morgan judges wouldn't even look at my colorful colt, I was lucky enough to get a judge with an open mind and she looked beyond his color and saw the horse. Competing in a class against 5 bay, 2 yo stallions who had no white, my odd colored boy won reserve champion, than went on to win reserve showing against the winning weanlings, yearlings and 2 yo. stallions.

My point is that I was able to show my pinto morgan in an "A" rated Morgan show because the breed club was open to all. It makes me sad that I'm unable to have that same opportunity with my colorful AKC registered yorkies.

Yes, a good mother should protect it's offspring but not reject a child because it is different from what they (or a group of people) perceive as being perfect or ideal. A breed club should be open for all to join and the show ring is where a dog should be judged.

We can all have our opinions of what a breed club should be. But, first and foremost they are the keeper of the Standard. The club bylaws, code of ethics/conduct were put forth long before you and I came into the picture.

As much as I'd like to join the the YTCA because I breed parti colored yorkies, I wouldn't have a chance at joining it. It wouldn't matter if I had the most perfect steel blue and tan dog, I'd be tarred and feathered before I could send in my membership application

Most breed clubs are pretty strict on how their clubs are operated and one is not able to just join. One must be invited and be sponsored by two members that have known you for a minimum of two years; with one having visited our home in the recent past. Each sponsor must fill out your application, you only fill in your personal information. The application is then passed onto the membership committee, who then reviews it and then puts it to the membership. If for any reason any member rejects your membership, their rejection is forwarded to the applicant to rebutal the rejection.

Even Regional Clubs have bylaws, do home inspections, and require sponsorship.
But, you are right, because you breed outside the standard, you probably won't be accepted. It's more than just the dark steel blue and tan......

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Yes, a good mother should protect it's offspring but not reject a child because it is different from what they (or a group of people) perceive as being perfect or ideal. A breed club should be open for all to join and the show ring is where a dog should be judged.

As much as I'd like to join the the YTCA because I breed parti colored yorkies, I wouldn't have a chance at joining it. It wouldn't matter if I had the most perfect steel blue and tan dog, I'd be tarred and feathered before I could send in my membership application
When I raised Morgan horses, the standard was dark horses (bay, black, brown, chestnut) with little to no white but when my bright red colt was born with rear stockings that ran above his hocks, a blaze that wrapped around his face and a 4 inch belly spot (he's one of the first double registered pinto morgans), I watched him grow, decided to put my horse where my mouth was and in the show ring he went.

The American Morgan Horse Association was open to all and though I was told that most Morgan judges wouldn't even look at my colorful colt, I was lucky enough to get a judge with an open mind and she looked beyond his color and saw the horse. Competing in a class against 5 bay, 2 yo stallions who had no white, my odd colored boy won reserve champion, than went on to win reserve showing against the winning weanlings, yearlings and 2 yo. stallions.

My point is that I was able to show my pinto morgan in an "A" rated Morgan show because the breed club was open to all. It makes me sad that I'm unable to have that same opportunity with my colorful AKC registered yorkies.

So here you say, you would like to join it, yet you criticize it all the time, and say "I am not fond of "breed clubs" who only allow into the club, a selected group of people," so you don't like it because they won't let you join? I thought parti breeders were looking toward a future where breed standard might change, and the colors would be accepted, however, if a breeder doesn't see any benefit of ever breeding to standard, I doubt if they would ever be considered for membership. What would be the point? The club should not be viewed as some type of prestige's membership that allows you to sell your dogs for more. I think many seem to view it that way.

Your comment, "It wouldn't matter if I had the most perfect steel blue and tan dog," makes me think you just don't understand the purpose for a breed club. I highly doubt they choose their membership based on the beauty of their dogs, I would hope not, but on their ethics and qualities as a breeder. Lots of "show breeders" would never be considered for membership because they don't have other highly respected qualities. You can't just say, your breeding for the love of it, you really have prove it.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Yes, a good mother should protect it's offspring but not reject a child because it is different from what they (or a group of people) perceive as being perfect or ideal. A breed club should be open for all to join and the show ring is where a dog should be judged.

As much as I'd like to join the the YTCA because I breed parti colored yorkies, I wouldn't have a chance at joining it. It wouldn't matter if I had the most perfect steel blue and tan dog, I'd be tarred and feathered before I could send in my membership application

When I raised Morgan horses, the standard was dark horses (bay, black, brown, chestnut) with little to no white but when my bright red colt was born with rear stockings that ran above his hocks, a blaze that wrapped around his face and a 4 inch belly spot (he's one of the first double registered pinto morgans), I watched him grow, decided to put my horse where my mouth was and in the show ring he went.

The American Morgan Horse Association was open to all and though I was told that most Morgan judges wouldn't even look at my colorful colt, I was lucky enough to get a judge with an open mind and she looked beyond his color and saw the horse. Competing in a class against 5 bay, 2 yo stallions who had no white, my odd colored boy won reserve champion, than went on to win reserve showing against the winning weanlings, yearlings and 2 yo. stallions.

My point is that I was able to show my pinto morgan in an "A" rated Morgan show because the breed club was open to all. It makes me sad that I'm unable to have that same opportunity with my colorful AKC registered yorkies.

now horses aren't quite the same as dog clubs....I don't think I would take a palamino to a show KNOWING the palamino is suppose to be that pretty gold with white mane and tail and then try to take a golden horse with a white mane and brown tail and show it...come on....a palamino is just that no devaiting from the breed persa....now you wouldn't want to take a appy horse to a paint horse show and expect it to win even though they could all be considered a quarter horse......same in yorkies Parti's are not the standard in an AKC show so I would hope you wouldn't want to deviate from what the standard or type of horse show would call for now would you?

[Brooklynn]

this may not be a popular post but breeding Parti's is stictly for the pet market and the pet market only because you can't show a Parti in an AKC show or it would be DQ'ed and so therefore it can't obtain a championship so again it's to fulfill the pet market and not for what the purebred was intended to be but of course that is my opinion. As long as the parti is not accepted for the show ring and isn't being bred to breed standard they are purely being bred to supply the pet market and show breeders upholding the breed to the breed standard should be only breeding to produce champions and to breed for the betterment of the breed and to uphold what the standard calls for. Show breeders and pet breeders will not see eye to eye on this subject period. Don't get me wrong I think all yorkies are pretty but again breeding to the standard should be the priority and for health but again this post won't be very popular but it's the way I see things and if that is closed minded so be it and I see the standard in black and white and parti's are a deviation from the breed standard.

Donna Bird

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

now horses aren't quite the same as dog clubs....I don't think I would take a palamino to a show KNOWING the palamino is suppose to be that pretty gold with white mane and tail and then try to take a golden horse with a white mane and brown tail and show it...come on....a palamino is just that no devaiting from the breed persa....now you wouldn't want to take a appy horse to a paint horse show and expect it to win even though they could all be considered a quarter horse......same in yorkies Parti's are not the standard in an AKC show so I would hope you wouldn't want to deviate from what the standard or type of horse show would call for now would you?

But see, that was the whole point of my story ... I took and showed my morgan, who was vastly different from what was normally seen or shown. I could do this because I showed my registered American Morgan Horse at an American Morgan horse show (the breed show).

I wouldn't show my morgan at a Quarter horse show because he's not a Quarter horse and I wouldn't show my yorkie at a bull dog show because it's not a bulldog.

Palomino is a coat color and not a breed, so if there was a class or show specifically for palomino's, no I wouldn't show my red pinto morgan in it but I could show my pinto morgan in a pinto show (like palomino, pinto is a color and not a "breed").

My horse was not the color that the standard called for but he was the product of 2 registered, DNA'd parents, so he had as much right to show and would not have been automatically disqualified due to his off coloring (he may not have pinned because the judge wouldn't look at him but luckily that wasn't the case).

There are breed clubs and registries and there are coat color clubs and registries in the horse world.

The YTCA is the parent "breed club" for AKC registered Yorkshire terriers and I feel that a breed club should be open to all who have the breed but I guess that's where the horse and dog world differ?

[YorkieRose]

You say you want to make your Yorkies color POP..so adding Parti genes is your solution...How did the breed get so messed up???..Oh, I know, unethcial breeders who have no clue what they are doing and our breed suffers the results...

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

But see, that was the whole point of my story ... I took and showed my morgan, who was vastly different from what was normally seen or shown. I could do this because I showed my registered American Morgan Horse at an American Morgan horse show (the breed show).

I wouldn't show my morgan at a Quarter horse show because he's not a Quarter horse and I wouldn't show my yorkie at a bull dog show because it's not a bulldog.

Palomino is a coat color and not a breed, so if there was a class or show specifically for palomino's, no I wouldn't show my red pinto morgan in it but I could show my pinto morgan in a pinto show (like palomino, pinto is a color and not a "breed").

My horse was not the color that the standard called for but he was the product of 2 registered, DNA'd parents, so he had as much right to show and would not have been automatically disqualified due to his off coloring (he may not have pinned because the judge wouldn't look at him but luckily that wasn't the case).

There are breed clubs and registries and there are coat color clubs and registries in the horse world.

The YTCA is the parent "breed club" for AKC registered Yorkshire terriers and I feel that a breed club should be open to all who have the breed but I guess that's where the horse and dog world differ?

Well you actually proved my point....the standard of the yorkie has a certain color to achieve. You still wouldn't want to show a "color" palamino with a red color tail at a palamino show so therefore you shouldn't want to show an off colored yorkie in an AKC show because it still deviates from what the breed standard calls for just as in a palamino horse, a horse is a breed and a palamino is a color you achieve in order to show that particular horse in that particular "breed color". The palamino and paints and appy's can be registered as quarter horses which is a registry but they still have different clubs for those particular "colors".
Again, show breeders and pet breeders still will not see eye to eye on this subject.

Donna Bird

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Well you actually proved my point....the standard of the yorkie has a certain color to achieve. You still wouldn't want to show a "color" palamino with a red color tail at a palamino show so therefore you shouldn't want to show an off colored yorkie in an AKC show because it still deviates from what the breed standard calls for just as in a palamino horse, a horse is a breed and a palamino is a color you achieve in order to show that particular horse in that particular "breed color". The palamino and paints and appy's can be registered as quarter horses which is a registry but they still have different clubs for those particular "colors".
Again, show breeders and pet breeders still will not see eye to eye on this subject.

Donna Bird

Donna,

I know nothing about horses, except how to ride them. But, I know that you've been around them all your life and are pretty savvy.

But, on the subject of the Mother Club/YTCA and for those that feel that it should be open to anyone that wants to join. I do have one question and it is not aimed at anyone person.

Why do you want to be a member?

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

You say you want to make your Yorkies color POP..so adding Parti genes is your solution...How did the breed get so messed up???..Oh, I know, unethcial breeders who have no clue what they are doing and our breed suffers the results...

No, I didn't say that "I want my yorkies color to POP ... so adding parti genes is my solution ..." The parti genes are already there in some of our registered yorkies, I didn't add anything. Not quite sure how you read that into the conversation??

I believe you have a good friend who bred parti's up my way ... I got my first parti carrier male from her, out of her beautiful parti stud, so I guess that makes her just as unethical and breed ruining as the rest of the parti breeders (unless I misunderstand what you're saying)?

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

No, I didn't say that "I want my yorkies color to POP ... so adding parti genes is my solution ..." The parti genes are already there in some of our registered yorkies, I didn't add anything. Not quite sure how you read that into the conversation??

I believe you have a good friend who bred parti's up my way ... I got my first parti carrier male from her, out of her beautiful parti stud, so I guess that makes her just as unethical and breed ruining as the rest of the parti breeders (unless I misunderstand what you're saying)?

I'm just guessing, but I think her comment was directed at the OP, not at you. The OP is the one who said she wanted the colors to pop.

[Micah my love]

Originally Posted by luvdorkyyorkies

I am a yorkie breeder, love the breed, have been doing it for quite some time.
This might be un popular to say, but I want my yorkies color to pop and want to inject some white into my bloodlines. (THe parti colors) I just think it is so beautiful and exciting.
Can I introduce some color into my lines?

quote only

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Well you actually proved my point....the standard of the yorkie has a certain color to achieve. You still wouldn't want to show a "color" palamino with a red color tail at a palamino show so therefore you shouldn't want to show an off colored yorkie in an AKC show because it still deviates from what the breed standard calls for just as in a palamino horse, a horse is a breed and a palamino is a color you achieve in order to show that particular horse in that particular "breed color". The palamino and paints and appy's can be registered as quarter horses which is a registry but they still have different clubs for those particular "colors".
Again, show breeders and pet breeders still will not see eye to eye on this subject.

Donna Bird

And I think you’ve proven my point ... There is a difference between the breed clubs and coat color clubs. In the equine world, you’re able to show different colored horses of that breed, in the same show ring. In a coat color club like pinto, horses that meet the clubs color requirements, can be shown but they can come from many different breeds.

15-20 years ago, showing a palomino morgan or even a morgan with 4 white socks, was highly discouraged in the Morgan world. The color standard then called for bay, black, brown and chestnut with little white but because other colors were being produced by registered morgans, these other colors were “allowed” to show. They may not have pinned as high due to prejudices or the color preferences of the judge but the horses were allowed to show because they were registered with that BREED.

The YTCA is a “breed club” and not a coat color club isn’t it? Just because a yorkie doesn’t achieve a certain color, does not change them from being a member of the Yorkshire terrier “breed?”

I just feel that an AKC breed club should be open to all who own or love that particular breed and in a perfect world, it would also be nice if all could show in conformation if they choose to, regardless of color.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by bonbon

I'm just guessing, but I think her comment was directed at the OP, not at you. The OP is the one who said she wanted the colors to pop.

Oops ... sorry

[Mardelin]

The YTCA is a “breed club” and not a coat color club isn’t it? Just because a yorkie doesn’t achieve a certain color, does not change them from being a member of the Yorkshire terrier “breed?”

The YTCA is a Breed Club with a standard that Specifically speaks too the color of a yorkie "Dark Steel Blue and Tan".

We can feel what we may think a Breed Club should be comprised of, but since the standard was set forth way before the YTCA and by those in Great Britian.....much more went into it than people just deciding what that is what the standard should be.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

But, on the subject of the Mother Club/YTCA and for those that feel that it should be open to anyone that wants to join. I do have one question and it is not aimed at anyone person.

Why do you want to be a member?

Personally, I had always belonged to and supported the local Morgan club in addition to being a member of the American Morgan Horse Assoc. In addition to doing fund raisers, silent auctions and volunteering my time at shows, I also wrote articles for the breed magazine and for other morgan club newsletters ... I enjoyed helping out were I could.

But this ain't a perfect world so even if I could join the YTCA (or local club), I'm sure no one would talk to me anyway!