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I'd rather stay friends with my one and only Parti friend so I will refrain from the Parti issue as I like Tammy and do not want to hurt her feelings. :) Donna |
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Concerning beating a dead horse, we are constantly getting new members, lots of people joining every day, who know nothing about qualities to look for in a breeder and why breeding to standard is important, or even why you shouldn't breed your pet dog. I know when I joined Yorkietalk I read hundreds of threads before I ever posted on a thread, for most people there's no reason to post; they can get lots information by reading. If you believe you are beating a dead horse, than of course you shouldn't post, but I certainly don't think I'm beating a dead horse. All I can say, is that I'm so thankful, there were a few people here before I joined, and who weren't afraid of beating that proverbial dead horse. |
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Donna I can tell by your post how important the quality of your dogs are and I do have a high respect for you. Nancy I am happy your purchase from a YTCA member was great! On the other hand mine was not. There are good and bad in every avenue of life including the YTCA. The most important responsibility a breeder has is the care of their dogs and secondly is the health of their puppies, color and everything else comes in after those issues. |
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so post my reply here.: I do not have a web site: Parti Yorkie Terrier, we do not have them in the UK. so if you have a prob Deb take it up with them.... I merely informed you on that site that you had put incorrect info on your web sire about Nikko's Rolls Royce Ashley ever winning crufts, which I now see you have changed. |
I have read this thread with interest. As just a fancier of Yorkies and not a breeder I have a few comments. First there is a lot of passion on this thread which I feel is very very good. Passion is indicative of strongly held beliefs, and for many posts, that was articulated in a reasoned and critical way. I would hope that the ethical breeders of Standard Yorkies, work very closely to promote a harmonious relationship with the ethical breeders of Parti=Yorkies. You would want to promote the testing of parti's for all the tests that the ethical breeders of standard yorkies do. Why? quite simply it may lead the way into more understanding of the health problems of standard Yorkies. What if all BATS results were collected and delineated between Yorkie standard color and Parti color. And there was a statistically relevant deviation between the two? What if LP was again statistically less in Standard vs Parti? the fact remains there seems to be dedicated and passionate folks breeding Parti's they are here to stay! So maybe one day the standard will be changed .... After all in many breeds of dogs there are different colours they compete under. To me while I love the standard color of Yorkies ( I do own a standard Yorkie) if Partis show all the same characteristics of Yorky standards with no greater health concerns, then one day maybe the US Club will need to acknowledge and recognize this. IMHO change will always happen and should... Colour is Just colour unless colour also is indicative of other health concerns... ie some breeds white = higher propensity to deafness. In fact on the subject of light blue .. the YCTA's illustrated standard mentions that light blue is important in the breed... and the breeders know why... Unfortunately the authors decided not to publish why this is important, this deliberate omission is I very interesting. |
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I have read many posts about the Biewer and the Parti. My question to you all is... Do you think the Yorkshire Terrier is the only breed that has had a mutating color gene? 13 years ago I met a wonderful breeder that I purchased my first German Shepherd from. Approximately 10 years ago, she breed her tradional male with a black female and produce the first tri-color German Shepherd now known as the Panda Shepherd. When this happened my friend was judged ridiculed and treated very badly for her breeding practices. She held her ground and began working with a genetist and was able to prove her dogs were pure and the gene was isolated and was found to have came from her tradional male. She has been a guardian of her colorful Shepherds and has every litter DNA to see which pup carries the gene and is very selective as to the placement. I have since purchased another boy from her, his mother is a Panda Shepherd and his father is a tradional. My boy is a tradional and does not carry the Panda gene. I am not as of yet, an expert when it comes to the Biewer Terrier however, I know that through DNA studies Mr. Biewer was enhancing his "color lines" with other breeds. I can only speculate why because he is not here to tell us but I believe he was trying to produce color and specific looks using the Yorkies as the foundation. I believe as far as the Parti Yorkie as with the Panda Shepherd, the dog will either carry the gene or it won't. To the OP... the only way you will know is to contact a genesist. If you breed a parti into your lines you may or may not have a baby who will carry the gene. |
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You could have contacted us about the error. But instead you choose to berate and steal pictures that do not belong to you and used them without permission. I hope you have corrected this and removed the pictures. This board frowns on people who conducts themselves in this manner. |
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It is her site, she is saying she is merely informing us on that site , that its not a website its to inform. |
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Tammy first of all...I respect you as a person, and your beliefs. The biggest issue, as I see it, is GOALS. There is a difference between breeding a parti and "off-blue" coloring to produce a correctly blue colored dog. To begin, nobody can breed a perfect dog because it doesn't exist; whether you're breeding standard color or a Parti, there's always faults. But those who are trying to ACHIEVE the correct "blue and tan" color may breed a dog "not to standard" but it's their GOAL to produce the perfect color that is the issue. As a parti breeder I can see how that seems comfusing or like a double standard, but it's more than the single dog's phenotype (appearence) that determines the color of offspring. They say it's wrong for you to breed a Parti, and you say their coloring is not "perfect" either...but your *goals* are on opposite ends of the stick. Now if a light blue dog is bred without intention to correct it to dark steel blue, then yes, they're both not the "standard correct" color. (Does that make sense?) Also what is "dark steel blue" to one, may be too light to another. I'm not saying it's always right to breed a too dark or too light coat, but it's a big picture, and more than phenotype. You always have to look at the genetics and decide if your 'not to standard' colored dog matched with the sire/dam will PRODUCE the correct "blue and tan" that the standard calls for. Whereas partis are bred to PRODUCE that white tri-color, which is a fault according to standard. Hope that makes sense. So in your case, you could breed two traditional colord dogs and still produce a tri-colored offspring. Both parents would have the recessive gene required, but they're not parti colored. You might be blamed for not breeding "correct parti color", but you're breeding two traditionals to PRODUCE parti colored offspring, which is your goal. I think we must always remember that NO dog is perfect, and we always have to live with some faults and decide which ones are not acceptable. There will always be disreputable breeders breeding wrong size, wrong health, wrong heads, wrong color, wrong *whatever*, but we all should be seeking and encouraging ethical breeding practices in EVERY breeding program, with the end purpose of BETTERING THE BREED. Friends can agree to disagree and remain friends.:D Gosh, that was a lot longer than I meant, sorry. :p |
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I know nothing about the panda shepherd but the gene that Parti yorkies have, is the piebald gene which is a well known spotting gene - their color is not a result of a mutated gene. A parti will always throw 1 of it's 2 parti genes onto all of it's offspring, so your statement "If you breed a parti into your lines you may or may not have a baby who will carry the gene", is incorrect. I just wanted to clear that up for anyone who's trying to learn how the parti (piebald) gene works :-) |
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I have not been on this site before tonight and already I feel most unwelcome, a shame really as there are some fabulously experienced yorkie lovers.:aimeeyork |
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Please don't give up on us, when I first came here, people accused me of being someone else, and some thought I was a breeder, and some thought I was a troll; some still think I'm a troll! :D I suggest you introduce yourself in the General forum, http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...r-discussion/; most members are very friendly, the Parti/breeding threads get very controversial, and most members don't post on these threads for that reason. |
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As for this particular thread, you did start off firing a broadside at parti breeders about the inbreeding (post #11) before clarifying. Those remarks are especially perplexing when taken with your remarks about Mr. Biewer and his vision (post #132), where you seemingly give kudos to a man that began the Biewer with only 2 dogs, something that could only have occurred with intensive inbreeding. There's a real disconnect in rationale there. I'm also confused about your remarks about breeding for "the recessive gene" (post #29). I assume your talking about the piebald gene. The obvious potential health issue is deafness when the gene is extremely expressed, and that has been well researched in other breeds and has been discussed here before. If your talking about "the recessive gene" in general, you should know that a great many of the distinguishing traits of the Yorkshire Terrier come from recessive genes. I'm sure you meant only the piebald gene, but it is confusing, just the same. |
If you want to know who evab is all you have to do is go to the biewer pedigree database That is all I have to say. |
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Just because some of the dogs went to California and some to Germany it doesn't mean they are different dogs,,,,just like the Yorkies that were sold to different countries.. How the heck would you know what Mr. Biewer believed in ... he knowingly went to England and bought 4 dogs from Streamglen that were so inbreed it is not even funny..and then he inbreed them even more...look at the pedigree's they tell the story......not some website that has stretched the truth. Mr. Biewer only bred for less than 7 years and he had to have a standard if he wanted to register his dogs. The standard was a few sentences..Do you really believe these beautiful dogs just lost popularity in a few short years??? NO..they were dying...and it is why the Germans breed Yorkies back in and still believe they are Yorkies. Don't buy into the "Mrs. Biewer" garbage either...she has signed two different standards and frankly if she really cared about the dogs, why did she get rid of them after he died???? How many breeders on YT have their spouse involved in their breeding program????? They might love the dogs but few really know all the aspects of the breeding program. I also have not found any evidence that Mr. Biewer protected these dogs with the people he sold the dogs to. DO NOT BELIEVE JUST BECAUSE A WEBSITE LOOKS GOOD THAT IT IS TELLING THE TRUTH. This same group that now says another breed was brought in (of course they won't tell you what that other breed is) only started saying this a few years ago...so either they started bringing in another breed or they are lying because they know a sucker is born every moment in this country. |
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I'm on my own, which sucks, but I have breeder friends to fill that void. |
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I do think many spouses support the spouse's interest but how many of them would continue with the breeding program if the spouse died? In the Biewer world I have seen 2 or 3 husbands in the showring and I have seen some come along to help with the dogs but seldom have I seen them determine which dogs are going to breed together and why. |
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