Awwwwwww Thank You Mary that means a lot to me :) I can be a b**** but I do have social skills I'm just blunt plain and simple and if that is seen as lack of social skills dont' ask my opinion :) Love you Mary! And you do know I can be a witch LOL....

I'm pretty tactful with people...but, find myself loosing patience when people debate a subject that don't have all their facts to back them up. I usually don't debate unless I have my facts together.

I've never had a newly docked tail bleed, a pup wimper yes.....

Wow, all mine bled and the dew claws also. The poor Mommy's used to spend the rest of the day licking and cleaning the wounds. All the pups squealed badly and I mean "squealed". There's just no way I could call it a "whimper". I found it very distressing. This was with two different vet's, both of which did not approve of docking, they made it quite clear that they would be happy when it was banned.

Couldn't you find a vet who approved of it? I wouldn't want to use a vet that didn't approve of a procedure he was doing. How did they feel about dewclaw removal?

Never had a problem like that what so ever. Applying pressure inhibits the bleeding, I apply pressure with my thumb and index finger and hold, apply surgical adhesive and slowly release Dew Claws if done correctly should draw no blood, I immediately use a Silver Nitrate stick to inhibit the flow of blood and add a drop of surgical glue (Clotisol), place the pup in a small box, lined and padded with soft, warm material. The box is placed on a table, right beside me (so, that I can monitor), under a heat lamp. Once all the pups are done, I bring mom in and place her into the whelping box and put the pups to her.......None of my girls have ever even noticed that anything is different.....at the most they will diaper them........

Plain and simple, no. Most vets over there were against the procedure and viewed it as nothing more than "cosmetic surgery". The same with dewclaws. The one I have now has had his dewclaws for nearly sixteen years and it hasn't done him any harm at all. It's really not necessary.

Are you a vet?

Nope, but taught by one.....

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you were from England. I'm glad you haven't had any problem with dewclaws. Although docking is done regularly here, dewclaws are often left as is, and we have had several members whose dogs have had them ripped off, one just a couple of weeks ago. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...s-dewclaw.html

LOL...she's not. But seeing as she have problems the unfortunate experiences that you have described as having, that doesn't say very much about your vet does it?

Mary is right on the procedure and right about that they should not bleed. I was a vet tech for many years and we did tails and dewclaws weekly for our breeder clients. I have been breeding for 30 years and never once had a problem. The problem arises when people think they know how to do and are not shown by an expert. If you are going to do this procedure and you do not know how or never have done it before have your vet show you how. Now most vets really do not know the correct length to dock them at for show. I have seen too many vets docking them way too short. I had to teach my vet the correct length. They just cannot know the correct length for every breed. And I heard someone mention rubber bands - this is really not used any longer, nor should be done with this method - JMHO.

Donna - I know her personally too and she is a great person. She just really cares about the breed!

and well... it does get tired after awhile having to explain things over and over again. People want a quick answer or make comments they know nothing about and do not do their research first like they should. People just open their mouths now and do not want to take the time, like they should. Open mouth insert foot!

I just find having 3 threads on this topic overdone. I hope the admin with lock all these now since it is so overdone. I think everyone has expressed their feelings and not much more can be said on this topic. It is time to move on. Not too much we can do here in America with the way things are stated at this time. We show to prove breed worthy. If you do not show - then you have an option not to dock. Plain and simple. The one with all the other posts - I assume that you brought you dog from someone that does not show and had an option to buy a dog with undocked tail.

This was for Friscomom - "The one with all the other posts - I assume that you brought your dog from someone that does not show and had an option to buy a dog with undocked tail."

No problem. I understand that there of course can be problems with dew claws being harmed but no more than there is with all the other nails The other nails aren't removed so I don't agree that dew claws should be removed either. There are many humans who have lost and damaged nails also. I'm pleased that here dew claws are left as is.

Sorry I can't agree there. I've also seen videos of the same outcome so I really don't blame my choice of vets.
I think if breeders stuck together and chose not to do this procedure, then it would quickly become the norm for all breeds to have tails. Dogs don't care how they look, it's all down to our "human" selfishness. Dogs aren't fashion accessories and shouldn't have to look a certain way to please our eye. Dogs have tails for a reason, they use their tails for communication. I feel it's very sad they they need to have surgery performed on them to be deemed "acceptable".

According to reports, garden variety breeders have not felt that they have an option, even though show folks and judges DO have the option, with the way things are stated at this time. Even if you DO show you have an option not to dock. I hear that Big Box Banfield and other vets have already discontinued the practice if done solely for cosmetic reasons, in America. Open head, remove stuffing!

As I stated before I worked as a vet tech and we had Many people came for a snagged dewclaw in with various breeds, especially the small breeds since they are often kept inside and the vet I worked for had to repair it. Infact my daughter's dog just snagged his last week and had to go to the visit. I have several of mine with dewclaws and they have gotten snagged. Most often too the nail grows around and will grow into the skin. I forgot to check one of my girls and it did grow into her skin. I had to use a human toenail clipper to clip the nail and then pull it out. I felt so bad that I had overlooked it for weeks to get this way. It is just not one I am use to checking since most of mine have had their dewclaws removed.
I also wanted to mention - that dewclaws can grow back if not tnough is clipped back and the time when they are removed.

So are you saying it's only dew claws that get harmed and you don't see any damaged regular nails? I've always had all my dogs nails clipped regularly by a vet, you don't think maybe these dogs that you are seeing are having problems because their nails aren't kept as short as they should be?

All the vets around me I know for a fact - do still do dock tails. I do not use Banfield but do have to go to Pet Smart today. I also live in GA.

You should check on how doberman and great dane ears are cut - there is so much more to them. The vet I worked for specialized in this and let me tell you - this is the one I hate!! I was in charge of taking the tapes and bandages off with they would come back in and wrapping them back up.

In my experience and the ones that came to our office was most all the time the dewclaws. I do know that the regular nail can get hurt too, but was rare and usually due to being stepped on my a person by accient. Where dewclaws are caught most often on carpet and furniture, blankets, etc... of fabric.

Okay, thanks. I actually edited my post but you'd already replied:D

I've always kept my dogs nails regularly clipped and have never had a problem. Do you think maybe the damaged ones you see are because they aren't being kept clipped short enough?

topknot, there are now 91 threads on YT about docking, and 250 on hair bows. Go read up on what you feel is important to think about.

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You are probably right. But apparently "most breeders" don't have a problem with it. ;)

It's one of those situations where "if everyone thought like me and felt the exact same about it and did the exact same thing...." Reality is though, that's not the case.

It's such a shame that we can't ask the poor puppies for their opinion, after all it's they who have to go through the surgery. Just as well they do have some humans who will speak out on their behalf.

It is a pity I can't understand more of what they are attempting to communicate to me. But, if my girls could tell me more about whelping, and assuming it is not favorable to me. That's all it would take for me to quit, since it is my least favorite thing to do. That's probably why I only breed minimally; 1, maybe 2 litters a year and most of the time skipping a year.

Excuse me.... how rude. I have been on YT for a long time and have never been replied to in this matter. I am talking about recent threads. I never mentioned anything about bows! I have been around a long time and am fully aware of the important topics. I think by me being around a long time (30 years) with this breed shows my devotion to this breed. I also go to all-breed club meetings, seminars, shows, helped raise money for dogs (fire/police canines), etc...
Also there is not much we can do right now to change this practice until the YTCA/AKC make the change and this as far as I know, won't be for another 3 years (to be allowed to change the standard). I do not think you are aware of this.
And if you are so concern about this - why did you buy a dog with a docked tail?? If you were concerned about this or felt this way - you should have done your research and bought a dog with an undocked tail to do your part to help support this. JMO!

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Tina,

As you know I'm a YTCA member.......At this point it is not being planned....even at the end of 3 years. If and when it is opened again it will be with careful consideration and caution......

Mary