Breeding advice from a first time Yorkie owner

[WinstonMom]

Originally Posted by dcypher

I have a male, 20 mo. old named Murphy and my cousin has a 3 yr. old female. They met last summer for the first and only time and got the idea they didn't really like each other...maybe it was because they just met, I don't know.

Anyway, my cousin called me yesterday and said her Yorkie was in heat and wanted to know if I'd want to get them together to breed.

Neither one us know anything about breeding per say...although it's obvious we just need to let them do what comes natural I guess? But is there anything else that isn't obvious that we should know?

Another question is how many puppies do Yorkies usually have in a litter, I'm sure it varies.

OK, I will attempt to answer some of your questions.
First of all, you cannot just put your two dogs together and let them do what is natural. They need to be supervised and helped to achieve a successful breeding and so neither of them gets hurt. Both of them could be injured. The male has a bone in his penis and could be damaged if the female drags him around during the tie. The female could also have damage to her reproductive tract should this occur. Some females will really fight during the tie and there should be two people present to hold them in position.
I won't get into the cost of breeding, others have already answered this, other than to once again emphasize that you can not reasonable expect to make any money off of this venture. It is more likely that it will cost the owner of the female a fair sum of money.
Litter size does vary, one and up. The largest litter I have ever had is 5 pups. The smallest litter I have had is 2. Singleton puppies have an even higher rate of c-sections due to the pup growing larger and uterine inertia.
I have lost puppies, it hurts really badly. You put your heart and soul into this and puppies die. I have had 7 litters of yorkie pups over the last few years and all the puppies lived in only two of these litters.
I have never lost a mom. I pray that will never happen to me but I know it does happen. I have no idea how I will react to that. It may be the last litter of pups I ever have.
I work part time so when I have a mom due to whelp, I take 3 weeks holidays so I can be home night and day. I don't know if this is what vacation from work is supposed to be all about but it is one of the things that I give up for breeding. Once again, you cannot let nature take its course. Very, very few yorkie mom's can deliver a litter without some human assistance so a responsible person has to be home when the girl is about to deliver. After the litter is born, they sleep in my room so I can hear what is going on. You don't get much sleep for quite a while after a litter is born. If you have to help one of the pups along with bottle feeding or tube feeding you have to be prepared to get up during the night as they need to be fed every two hours night and day.
Most of this pertains more to the female than the male, so I guess you will have to ask your cousin if she is prepared for all this. However, as the owner of the dad, you have to be prepared to make sure that the owner of the mom has the financial and emotional means to deal with the litter. As well, you have a responsibility to make sure that the pups end up with good responsible "forever" homes. Are you both prepared to take a pup back, if new owners find themselves unable to care for it? The world can do with a few less dogs ending up in shelters or euthanized. Hope this answers a few of your questions.

Audrey

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by dcypher

Why don't you really just say what's on your mind! ...I know, I know...I asked...but not everyone is an expert...that's why info is sought. Instead of being condescending in your response you could have been a champ about it and just provide the info. If this is what a breeder has to contend with they can have it!

Yes, I generally do speak my mind...especially when people ASK for questions on a public forum. And generally, when new member post that intend to breed, but have know idea what they are doing, they are not met with loads of support. I don't think 'what you are hear asking is very clear'...I'm not sure what information you were looking for...you didn't ask for specifics.
IF you and your cousin are determined to enter this venture armed only with a handful of tips from a web forum and following the theory that you should just let nature take it's course, then sorry, but I have no further information for you. That's not the kind of thing I would willingly support and encourage.
IF you and your cousin are interested in becoming REPUTABLE breeders, then there is lots you can learn and lots you need to do to prepare yourselves--breeding is not something you just 'pick up as you go.'

* For starters, the two of you should find an experienced breeding mentor. Online research is no substitute for hands on experience and valuable information from someone who has experience.
* A mentor will also help you evaluate your dogs and how they compare to the breed standard and give you an idea of if they will compliment each other well and if they even should be bred. Learn the standard backwards and forwards.
* Research which genetic issues Yorkies are notorious for. Have your dogs screened specifically for said issues, not just "vet checked.' Also, you will need a good knowledge of the dogs in your dogs' pedigrees and their health records, not just your two dogs.

That's where I would start. Again, it's a very broad area that you need to cover before you ever start, thus why I said at this point, you shouldn't even be entertaining the thought. If as you put it, it is 'too much for you to contend with' then it probably would be in the best interest of your dogs to leave it alone. Breeding can be full of heartache, but it can be very rewarding as well IF you are willing to put the time required into it.

[dcypher]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Glad you are asking with an open mind.

FYI - Your researching should begin a few years before you actually begin breeding......Alot of reasearch to do other than just breeding two yorkies.
You have a lot of knowledge to gather up before you get to the breeding part. Take your time study on genetics, breed standard, breed medical issues, breeding, whelping and raising a litter. Additionally things that need to be looked into are contracts, breeder (stud owner and female owner) responsibilities, canine behavior, pedigrees, tests required prior to breeding and tests required on pups.......Oh and finding a good mentor.

Good Luck and take your time.

Thank you!!! This is the sort of adult response I was looking for.

[dcypher]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Yes, I generally do speak my mind...especially when people ASK for questions on a public forum. And generally, when new member post that intend to breed, but have know idea what they are doing, they are not met with loads of support. I don't think 'what you are hear asking is very clear'...I'm not sure what information you were looking for...you didn't ask for specifics.
IF you and your cousin are determined to enter this venture armed only with a handful of tips from a web forum and following the theory that you should just let nature take it's course, then sorry, but I have no further information for you. That's not the kind of thing I would willingly support and encourage.
IF you and your cousin are interested in becoming REPUTABLE breeders, then there is lots you can learn and lots you need to do to prepare yourselves--breeding is not something you just 'pick up as you go.'

* For starters, the two of you should find an experienced breeding mentor. Online research is no substitute for hands on experience and valuable information from someone who has experience.
* A mentor will also help you evaluate your dogs and how they compare to the breed standard and give you an idea of if they will compliment each other well and if they even should be bred. Learn the standard backwards and forwards.
* Research which genetic issues Yorkies are notorious for. Have your dogs screened specifically for said issues, not just "vet checked.' Also, you will need a good knowledge of the dogs in your dogs' pedigrees and their health records, not just your two dogs.

That's where I would start. Again, it's a very broad area that you need to cover before you ever start, thus why I said at this point, you shouldn't even be entertaining the thought. If as you put it, it is 'too much for you to contend with' then it probably would be in the best interest of your dogs to leave it alone. Breeding can be full of heartache, but it can be very rewarding as well IF you are willing to put the time required into it.

I didn't come here to start a flaming BS session...it was you Misty that began the derogatory dialogue, not I.......I simply asked for input about the subject. I do think I hit a nerve with those on this thread that call themselves breeders....don't worry, I have zero intensions on starting another puppy mill, and hoarding in on your profits, never did. As a professional photographer I do see your point...it's like someone asking me how to take a great portrait with a point-n-shoot camera. Regardless of the skill level, when a person asks for my advice within my profession, my response is always helpful and in a non-condescending delivery. Just remember, owning three or more Yorkies, and having 9,504 posts on a public forum doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert...about anything!

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by dcypher

I didn't come here to start a flaming BS session...it was you Misty that began the derogatory dialogue, not I.......I simply asked for input about the subject. I do think I hit a nerve with those on this thread that call themselves breeders....don't worry, I have zero intensions on starting another puppy mill, and hoarding in on your profits, never did. As a professional photographer I do see your point...it's like someone asking me how to take a great portrait with a point-n-shoot camera. Regardless of the skill level, when a person asks for my advice within my profession, my response is always helpful and in a non-condescending delivery. Just remember, owning three or more Yorkies, and having 9,504 posts on a public forum doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert...about anything!

Maybe your intent was not to come here and start a "flaming BS session" but your initial post did make it sound as though you were ready to start breeding. At least that was my impression with the statement about your cousin's dog being in heat. It was like, we're ready to go, except for a couple of questions here. I'm sure you understand with a forum of yorkie lovers, inexperienced breeders and the way they approach breeding can be a controversial subject here.

I do take offense at the phrase "hoarding in on your profits". Some of us care only about the dogs well being, have never made a dime off a dog, and would still give you the same advice that Misty did.

Sharing photography tips willingly is very generous of you. Giving advice in your profession though doesn't involve the life and death of dogs. With the number of dogs euthanized anymore because of over-breeding, people need to really think with their heart, before becoming a breeder. If there are too many photographers competing for jobs, you'll find another job. Sadly, dogs don't get that second chance (job) too often.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by dcypher

I didn't come here to start a flaming BS session...it was you Misty that began the derogatory dialogue, not I.......I simply asked for input about the subject. I do think I hit a nerve with those on this thread that call themselves breeders....don't worry, I have zero intensions on starting another puppy mill, and hoarding in on your profits, never did. As a professional photographer I do see your point...it's like someone asking me how to take a great portrait with a point-n-shoot camera. Regardless of the skill level, when a person asks for my advice within my profession, my response is always helpful and in a non-condescending delivery. Just remember, owning three or more Yorkies, and having 9,504 posts on a public forum doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert...about anything!

WOW...what a post...first of all Bama has been around this forum awhile hence the posts and besides not all posts have to be breeding related...
I haven't seen one derogatory dialogue but yours actually. Good advice has been given to you by everyone...of course I haven't given you mine because you won't like mine LOL...but I did feel the need to say I applaud Bama for her "expertise" advice

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[BamaFan121s]

"Hoarding Profits?" Holy crap...there are profits to be made!? Well someone must have misplaced mine because I have yet to see them!

Thank you Donna and Jen for further explaining the point that has been made by most everyone on the thread so far. Some people get it...some don't and have no desire to. Whacha gonna do? No worries, no sleep lost...just one of the things that having 9,904 posts and owning 3 (or more) Yorkies has made me an "expert" in doing.

...9,905.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dcypher

I didn't come here to start a flaming BS session...it was you Misty that began the derogatory dialogue, not I.......I simply asked for input about the subject. I do think I hit a nerve with those on this thread that call themselves breeders....don't worry, I have zero intensions on starting another puppy mill, and hoarding in on your profits, never did. As a professional photographer I do see your point...it's like someone asking me how to take a great portrait with a point-n-shoot camera. Regardless of the skill level, when a person asks for my advice within my profession, my response is always helpful and in a non-condescending delivery. Just remember, owning three or more Yorkies, and having 9,504 posts on a public forum doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert...about anything!

I know that you intended to get information on your possible breeding endeavors. But, being new you'll find that your original questions and the way it was worded has a way of triggering those of us that are very passionate about the yorkie breed. We've seen your same questions presented by those whose intentions were only to breed for the soul purpose of $$$$.

Being new you have no idea of individual personalities and how to decipher their writing skills. Bama/Misty is very straight forwarded in how she communicates with no other intention but to assist those that ask questions. I don't think that responding to her in the manner in which you did will help you win friends and obtain assistance from other members on the forum.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dcypher

I didn't come here to start a flaming BS session...it was you Misty that began the derogatory dialogue, not I.......I simply asked for input about the subject. I do think I hit a nerve with those on this thread that call themselves breeders....don't worry, I have zero intensions on starting another puppy mill, and hoarding in on your profits, never did. As a professional photographer I do see your point...it's like someone asking me how to take a great portrait with a point-n-shoot camera. Regardless of the skill level, when a person asks for my advice within my profession, my response is always helpful and in a non-condescending delivery. Just remember, owning three or more Yorkies, and having 9,504 posts on a public forum doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert...about anything!

In addition your being new I strongly suggest you read the following thread:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...d-respect.html

[brendah]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

In addition your being new I strongly suggest you read the following thread:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...d-respect.html

Thank you for your link, I wish I would have found that when I joined. It would have saved me a lot of fustration and giving me very valueable information. I am still a new member here and finally "learning the ropes". This is a great community of people with a lot of excellent advice. The advice is much more easy to understand the longer I am here because, I am starting to understand the differnent personalitys
Thanks again for the link in your post

[WinstonMom]

I am offended by the "hoarding the profits" comment as well. Why do people always think that profits are to be made, by breeding correctly. My dear, I will be thrilled to share "my profits" with you whenever you like.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by WinstonMom

I am offended by the "hoarding the profits" comment as well. Why do people always think that profits are to be made, by breeding correctly. My dear, I will be thrilled to share "my profits" with you whenever you like.

Hey! If somehow you're getting profits....I want to know how, I must be doing something wrong......do share!!!!!!!!!

[brendah]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Hey! If somehow you're getting profits....I want to know how, I must be doing something wrong......do share!!!!!!!!!

Hey I will be willing to share the "profits" after expenses of course- Then we can all be broke together

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by brendah

Thank you for your link, I wish I would have found that when I joined. It would have saved me a lot of fustration and giving me very valueable information. I am still a new member here and finally "learning the ropes". This is a great community of people with a lot of excellent advice. The advice is much more easy to understand the longer I am here because, I am starting to understand the differnent personalitys
Thanks again for the link in your post

There are a lot of diverse personalities and levels of expertise & knowledge. Wonderful pet owners, some reputable breeders/exhibitors. The tuffy is wading through it all and finding out who is on the up and up and who is out to lunch.

[WinstonMom]

Last year, I had two pups only, with a C-section and a breeding that I have paid for the stud services that didn't take. One of the pups I kept. So with the insurance costs, stud fees, vet costs and showing costs, my profits were about "minus $5000". If she thinks I am hoarding, I will be delighted to share.

Audrey