I think this is it, no temp. dropping!?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by peanut

I have a question for you Mardelin, is it common with the feet first butt down, would that be call breech also, I was told it was upside breech?

Not sure, what I was told/taught by a repro vet was a true breech was one with head up. I'll have to ask my repro vet to give you a good answer.

Kind of scarey all the things that can cause a whelp to go wrong....like one going up the horn instead of coming down...another cross wise in the horn. I have a friend/fellow exhibitor, take her girl in for a c-section because the labor wasn't progressing....the pup was in a jack knive position, with the cord around it's neck....the pup lived, so it was a blessing and a miracle....or having one hind or front leg be presented.... then you worry that somehow the litter doesn't mess your girls reproductive organs up and she goes down and an ultra sound can't tell you what's wrong, blood tests show everything is fine and she's not running a temp....but, things aren't right......

[peanut]

One of the reasons I asked was Blossom last litter she had 3, 2 came out that way, feet first butt down, face up, lost them both, now she has 5 due any day, and I am hoping and praying it was due to them being so big, 7 to 7.5 oz. I used a different stud this time to see if I could get the puppies sizes down, but the one that lived was 7 oz and now at 10 months old weighs all of 4.5 pounds.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by peanut

One of the reasons I asked was Blossom last litter she had 3, 2 came out that way, feet first butt down, face up, lost them both, now she has 5 due any day, and I am hoping and praying it was due to them being so big, 7 to 7.5 oz. I used a different stud this time to see if I could get the puppies sizes down, but the one that lived was 7 oz and now at 10 months old weighs all of 4.5 pounds.

Using a smaller stud, is a misnomer......the mother controls the size in utero. It could have been they ingested too much fluid into their lungs....They say that 40% of pups are born with posterior presentation....but, that doesn't take away from the fact you have to work quickly and all has to be timed with her contractions....being careful you don't pull the pup, but sometimes in efforts to save the pup, pulling is necessary, just as long as you don't do it by the legs......

Have you discussed the situation with your vet? Scarey and I'm so sorry you lost the pups.

Here's another situation I can present, I've just had a female spayed, she had a total of 4 litters....of those 4 litters all but 2 pups were posterior presentation.....11 pups total.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Using a smaller stud, is a misnomer......the mother controls the size in utero. It could have been they ingested too much fluid into their lungs....They say that 40% of pups are born with posterior presentation....but, that doesn't take away from the fact you have to work quickly and all has to be timed with her contractions....being careful you don't pull the pup, but sometimes in efforts to save the pup, pulling is necessary, just as long as you don't do it by the legs......

Have you discussed the situation with your vet? Scarey and I'm so sorry you lost the pups.

Yes, the first one came out with a gentle pull, the second one the biggest, got stuck and time I could get her to the vet I could have lost her, so I pulled him out myself with help on the phone, which I hope doesn't happen again, but I know how and doesn't scare me as much now, but the last one was fine. Thats why I did the xrays to see the difference in sizes from the 2 litters, 1 day off, but my vet said these look much smaller, she had them all last time with no complications after everything that happen, vet told me I probably did it better than him, but it scared the crap out me. Also that was her first litter, so after those big pups he said she should pop them out this time, she has 5 maybe 6.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by peanut

Yes, the first one came out with a gentle pull, the second one the biggest, got stuck and time I could get her to the vet I could have lost her, so I pulled him out myself with help on the phone, which I hope doesn't happen again, but I know how and doesn't scare me as much now, but the last one was fine. Thats why I did the xrays to see the difference in sizes from the 2 litters, 1 day off, but my vet said these look much smaller, she had them all last time with no complications after everything that happen, vet told me I probably did it better than him, but it scared the crap out me. Also that was her first litter, so after those big pups he said she should pop them out this time, she has 5 maybe 6.

This breeding is not for the faint of heart. Oh! you poor thing 5 maybe six.....you are going to be one busy lady....caring for that mom......

I know that with one litter I had a pup that was having difficulty presenting the head....with my mentor on the phone....she said glove your hand and thorougly lube your finger and ream/dialate her.... thorougly lubricated her and dilated as I was doing this....try doing this with the pups head right there....but we got the pup out....

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

This breeding is not for the faint of heart. Oh! you poor thing 5 maybe six.....you are going to be one busy lady....caring for that mom......

I know that with one litter I had a pup that was having difficulty presenting the head....with my mentor on the phone....she said glove your hand and thorougly lube your finger and ream/dialate her.... thorougly lubricated her and dilated as I was doing this....try doing this with the pups head right there....but we got the pup out....

I didn't do this last time but as soon as she is in hard labor I am going to lube her up with ky just in case