Shot Questions

[JennyLeroux]

I am looking for some info on what ages are appropriate for giving shots. There is no sticky and I am not finding anything recently in the threads or in my searches. I know that this issue is debatable. My puppies are in my home and I only have one litter on the ground with one other dog in the house. I consider them low risk. I have tried to go debbie jensen's website but freakishly my computer will not let me. It says there is malware on the page and that I could risk getting a virus.

Also, I just started doing my own shots on my last litter. I had a lot of questions from the people that bought the puppies as to the legality of it and I do not want the puppies to get double dosed.

Any advice Yorkie Talkers?

[bjh]

I like to follow Dr. Dodd's vaccination protocal:

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs

You can do a google search for 'vaccination protocal' and find other recommendations. Also, I advise everyone to do a google search on 'dangers canine vaccinations' and read up on the dangers of over vaccinations.

Before deciding on what vaccination protocal is best for your dog you have to consider what life style your dog has and what diseases might be more prevalent in the area you live. I never give the lepto shot to mine since mine stay in doors but someone that lives in a area where lepto is a problem and they take there dogs outdoors a lot might want to give the lepto shot.

[fannie]

I highly suggest that you go to your vet and have a sit down discussion with them about vaccines. I recently spent 2 hrs. with my vet going over vaccines and working out a program for my dogs and puppies. There is a lot of new information out about it and it's best to speak with your vet so that both of you are on the same page.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by fannie

I highly suggest that you go to your vet and have a sit down discussion with them about vaccines. I recently spent 2 hrs. with my vet going over vaccines and working out a program for my dogs and puppies. There is a lot of new information out about it and it's best to speak with your vet so that both of you are on the same page.

I don't totally agree with this. Many vets over vaccinate and they do not keep up with the latest vaccination protocol. Some of the vets I use are good vets but when it comes to vaccinations I do not agree with them. It is up to us to research and decided what is best for our dogs. Not all dogs are equal. Why should a tiny yorkie that stays indoors get the same shots a a lab that runs outside? Of course,Steph, you sound like you have a wonderful vet that is willing to listen and that makes a lot of difference. I guess what I am saying to the OP is it that the first step would be to find a vet you have confidence in.

[JennyLeroux]

Originally Posted by bjh

I don't totally agree with this. Many vets over vaccinate and they do not keep up with the latest vaccination protocol. Some of the vets I use are good vets but when it comes to vaccinations I do not agree with them. It is up to us to research and decided what is best for our dogs. Not all dogs are equal. Why should a tiny yorkie that stays indoors get the same shots a a lab that runs outside? Of course,Steph, you sound like you have a wonderful vet that is willing to listen and that makes a lot of difference. I guess what I am saying to the OP is it that the first step would be to find a vet you have confidence in.

I totally agree with you on this. I have yet to find a vet that is willing to work with me locally. I have used 3 so far. One of them is more on the same page as most of what I found to be common practice among YT breeders as to trying not to over vaccinate. He is the one that told me that there is no need to vaccinate a dog under 5 lbs. every year but that every 3 years is sufficient. He is honest and he doesn't overcharge. The only problem is that he is down right rude and his office is an hour away from me. When I brought my new Biewer into him and was telling him about the breed he told me that some people just have money to waste. I just felt like a comment like that should not have left his lips. The old if you can't say something nice don't say anything nice at all. In fact I personally am not well off. I had my heart set on a Biewer from the moment I laid eyes on them and I set a goal and sacrificed until I got mine. I have just had my first litter from her in July after buying her in May of '08. Everything went off with flying colors with the litter so I feel very blessed.

Anyways, let me clarify. I have the shots already. I am aware of what diseases are relevant in my area. I have administered shots before but I have found some debate as to when it is necessary to start them and was looking for some suggestions among the breeders here to see what the general consensus is.

[fannie]

Yes, I do have a fabulous vet. And yes, you have to have a vet that you feel confident with. One that is willing to teach (and learn) as well. Your vet should be your "right hand", if you will. I actually have 3 vets that I utilize. Each one has certain things that set them apart.

And no, not all dogs should be treated the same. Take your information that you have and go to your vet with it. Then you can decide on a treatment program that is best suited for your dogs.

[starr728]

The lady we bought our puppy from likes to do the shots she also said that she does'nt like taking them to the vet so young incase of Parvo or kennel cough and suggested we buy the shots and have her do them to avoid getting our doggie sick so that's what we are doing. We of course still did the vet check up just to check for worms or fleas and to make sure all is well but the shots we opt for having done elsewhere by the lady that we purchased Karlee from.

[fannie]

I was going to switch to Dr. Dodd's vaccination schedule. However, after meeting with my vet we decided that it was best to stick with the schedule I had. And no, not everyone will agree with this. Vaccinations in dogs are as much as a debate as they are in humans.

I vaccinate with Vanguard +5 at 7, 10, 13 & 16 weeks. This is why:

Puppies get the immunities from their mom within the first 48 hrs. of nursing. (colostrum) No one knows for sure when those immunities wear off. It depends on the individual puppy. We do know that it happens somewhere between 6 & 10 weeks. That is very general.

The first shot may not do much for the puppy if it still has immunities from its mom. If it is a puppy that the immunities wore off quickly, then it will. It takes more than 1 shot to give them immunity. The 10 week shot may be the same way. It depends on where that particular puppy is in regards to immunities received from mom. The 13 & 16 week shots are very important.

You have decide how much of a chance you're willing to take. You can certainly take them to the vet and have a titers test done on them and see where they are before you vaccinate. It's very costly to have this done.

The same goes for vaccinating adults. If you choose to not vaccinate every year, you absolutely need to have a titer test ran to see where they are. Say you vaccinate with a 5 way. 1 of those things in it may not last for 3 yrs. So you run the titer, find out that the numbers are low for one and you end up vaccinating anyway.

And no, I don't have time to go into detail... this is very general. That's why you need to go discuss it with your vet. If you're not comfortable with what they have to say, then find another one.

[JennyLeroux]

Originally Posted by fannie

I was going to switch to Dr. Dodd's vaccination schedule. However, after meeting with my vet we decided that it was best to stick with the schedule I had. And no, not everyone will agree with this. Vaccinations in dogs are as much as a debate as they are in humans.

I vaccinate with Vanguard +5 at 7, 10, 13 & 16 weeks. This is why:

Puppies get the immunities from their mom within the first 48 hrs. of nursing. (colostrum) No one knows for sure when those immunities wear off. It depends on the individual puppy. We do know that it happens somewhere between 6 & 10 weeks. That is very general.

The first shot may not do much for the puppy if it still has immunities from its mom. If it is a puppy that the immunities wore off quickly, then it will. It takes more than 1 shot to give them immunity. The 10 week shot may be the same way. It depends on where that particular puppy is in regards to immunities received from mom. The 13 & 16 week shots are very important.

You have decide how much of a chance you're willing to take. You can certainly take them to the vet and have a titers test done on them and see where they are before you vaccinate. It's very costly to have this done.

The same goes for vaccinating adults. If you choose to not vaccinate every year, you absolutely need to have a titer test ran to see where they are. Say you vaccinate with a 5 way. 1 of those things in it may not last for 3 yrs. So you run the titer, find out that the numbers are low for one and you end up vaccinating anyway.

And no, I don't have time to go into detail... this is very general. That's why you need to go discuss it with your vet. If you're not comfortable with what they have to say, then find another one.

Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time to share that with me.

[bjh]

I give my puppies distemper and parvo only. I start their vaccinations when they are around 10 weeks old. They get two sets of vaccinations.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by JennyLeroux

Anyways, let me clarify. I have the shots already. I am aware of what diseases are relevant in my area. I have administered shots before but I have found some debate as to when it is necessary to start them and was looking for some suggestions among the breeders here to see what the general consensus is.

I always start giving mine their first shots at 8 or 9 weeks. This is a couple of weeks after the Mom has weaned them. I feel that if I give them any earlier, the immunity they get from the Mom make a shot ineffective. I use the Galaxy DA2PPv.

[JennyLeroux]

Originally Posted by bjh

I give my puppies distemper and parvo only. I start their vaccinations when they are around 10 weeks old. They get two sets of vaccinations.

Then you suggest that the new owner follow up on round 3 with their vet?

[Mardelin]

This is an explanation of Dr Dodds Protocol.

Dr. W. Jean Dodd's vaccination protocol is now being adopted by ALL 27 North American veterinary schools. I highly recommend that you read this. Copy and save it to your files. Print it and pass it out at dog fairs, cat shows, kennel club meetings, dog parks, give a copy to your veterinarian and groomer, etc., etc. Get the word out.
VACCINATION NEWS FLASH
I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical &economic challenge to vets, and there will be skeptics.
Some organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs. those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the doctor's economic well being should not be a factor in medical decision.
NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY
"Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (i.e.: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced." Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. "There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines.” Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8-14weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year 4mo) will provide lifetime immunity.
CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DOGS
Distemper & Parvo "According to Dr. Schultz, AVMA, 8-15-95, when a vaccinations series given at 2, 3 & 4 months and again at 1 year with a MLV, puppies and kitten program memory cells that survive for life, providing lifelong immunity." Dr. Carmichael at Cornell and Dr. Schultz have studies showing immunity against challenge at 2-10 years for canine distemper & 4 years for parvovirus. Studies for longer duration are pending. "There are no new strains of parvovirus as one mfg. would like to suggest. Parvovirus vaccination provides cross immunity for all types." Hepatitis (Adenovirus) is one of the agents known to be a cause of kennel cough. Only vaccines with CAV-2 should be used asCAV-1 vaccines carry the risk of "hepatitis blue-eye" reactions & kidney damage. Bordetella Parainfluenza, Commonly called "Kennel cough" Recommended only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows, or for any reason housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine provides more complete and more rapid onset of immunity with less chance of reaction. Immunity requires 72 hours and does not protect from every cause of kennel cough. Immunity is of short duration (4 to 6 months).
RABIES: There have been no reported cases of rabid dogs or cats in Harris, Montogomery or Ft. Bend Counties [Texas], there have been rabid skunks and bats so the potential exists. It is a killed vaccine and must be given every year. Lyme disease is a tick born disease which can cause lameness, kidney failure and heart disease in dogs. Ticks can also transmit the disease to humans. The original Ft. Dodge killed bacteria has proven to be the most effective vaccine. Lyme disease prevention should emphasize early removal of ticks. Amitraz collars are more effective than Top Spot, as amitraz paralyzes the tick's mouthparts preventing transmission of disease.
**VACCINATIONS NOT RECOMMENDED**
Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the immune system and result in lesser immunity for each individual disease as well as increasing the risk of a reaction. Canine Corona Virus is only a disease of puppies. It is rare, self limiting (dogs get well in 3 days without treatment). Cornell & Texas A&M have only diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs.
Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in dogs. Most of the clinical cases of lepto reported in dogs in the US are caused by serovaars (or types) grippotyphosa and bratsilvia. The vaccines contain different serovaars eanicola and ictohemorrhagica. Cross protection is not provided and protection is short lived. Lepto vaccine is immuno-supressive to puppies less than 16 weeks.

[Mardelin]

This is an explanation of Dr Dodds Protocol.

Dr. W. Jean Dodd's vaccination protocol is now being adopted by ALL 27 North American veterinary schools. I highly recommend that you read this. Copy and save it to your files. Print it and pass it out at dog fairs, cat shows, kennel club meetings, dog parks, give a copy to your veterinarian and groomer, etc., etc. Get the word out.
VACCINATION NEWS FLASH
I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical &economic challenge to vets, and there will be skeptics.
Some organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs. those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the doctor's economic well being should not be a factor in medical decision.
NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY
"Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (i.e.: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced." Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. "There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines.” Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8-14weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year 4mo) will provide lifetime immunity.
CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DOGS
Distemper & Parvo "According to Dr. Schultz, AVMA, 8-15-95, when a vaccinations series given at 2, 3 & 4 months and again at 1 year with a MLV, puppies and kitten program memory cells that survive for life, providing lifelong immunity." Dr. Carmichael at Cornell and Dr. Schultz have studies showing immunity against challenge at 2-10 years for canine distemper & 4 years for parvovirus. Studies for longer duration are pending. "There are no new strains of parvovirus as one mfg. would like to suggest. Parvovirus vaccination provides cross immunity for all types." Hepatitis (Adenovirus) is one of the agents known to be a cause of kennel cough. Only vaccines with CAV-2 should be used asCAV-1 vaccines carry the risk of "hepatitis blue-eye" reactions & kidney damage. Bordetella Parainfluenza, Commonly called "Kennel cough" Recommended only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows, or for any reason housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine provides more complete and more rapid onset of immunity with less chance of reaction. Immunity requires 72 hours and does not protect from every cause of kennel cough. Immunity is of short duration (4 to 6 months).
RABIES: There have been no reported cases of rabid dogs or cats in Harris, Montogomery or Ft. Bend Counties [Texas], there have been rabid skunks and bats so the potential exists. It is a killed vaccine and must be given every year. Lyme disease is a tick born disease which can cause lameness, kidney failure and heart disease in dogs. Ticks can also transmit the disease to humans. The original Ft. Dodge killed bacteria has proven to be the most effective vaccine. Lyme disease prevention should emphasize early removal of ticks. Amitraz collars are more effective than Top Spot, as amitraz paralyzes the tick's mouthparts preventing transmission of disease.
**VACCINATIONS NOT RECOMMENDED**
Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the immune system and result in lesser immunity for each individual disease as well as increasing the risk of a reaction. Canine Corona Virus is only a disease of puppies. It is rare, self limiting (dogs get well in 3 days without treatment). Cornell & Texas A&M have only diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs.
Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in dogs. Most of the clinical cases of lepto reported in dogs in the US are caused by serovaars (or types) grippotyphosa and bratsilvia. The vaccines contain different serovaars eanicola and ictohemorrhagica. Cross protection is not provided and protection is short lived. Lepto vaccine is immuno-supressive to puppies less than 16 weeks.

[Mardelin]

Didn't mean to double post....don't know how it happened. Sorry