Is this right to do??

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by blueskies

I don't think this puppy was sold as a "show prospect" but rather just a breeding prospect. It's doubtful this puppy could be shown but I don't think that's the intention of the OP. I think she was expecting a nicer puppy from a champion sire, but it didn't happen. The sad truth is that if you pay an inflated price for a young puppy (especially before it is even born), it could turn out to be either really nice, or really terrible. I don't know if that's the fault of the breeder or the buyer.

Show/breeding are one in the same. I'm not saying that everyone should be an exhibitor and every breeding dog should be Championed. But, what I mean is that a breeding dog should have all the attributes that show dog has. Otherwise it shouldn't be bred.

I think I said a bit earlier, not all dogs of a good pedigree should be shown/bred, Championed sired or not. I know that for a fact I have dogs that are Championed and come from a very, very long line of Champions, they don't always produce that show/breeding quality dog......

It takes more to buying a breeding dog than buying a dog from a breeder that sells you a dog on open registration.

[bjh]

Mary, you are right that there are show breeders that do take advantage of newbies but I know many are honest in telling them that there are risks and no guarantee. Many people are willing to take the risk. If anyone is serious about getting into showing then they would be better off attending several shows, getting to know different breeders and do lots of research. Some show breeders have very strict contracts and some are not as strict. I think it is much better to buy a show puppy that is at least 6 months old so you have a much better idea of what you are getting but if you are not knowledgeable about yorkies you could still be sold a unfinishable dog or one that could only be finished with a professional handler. There is a lot of hard work and money that goes into finishing a yorkie, no matter how good it is.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

Mary, you are right that there are show breeders that do take advantage of newbies but I know many are honest in telling them that there are risks and no guarantee. Many people are willing to take the risk. If anyone is serious about getting into showing then they would be better off attending several shows, getting to know different breeders and do lots of research. Some show breeders have very strict contracts and some are not as strict. I think it is much better to buy a show puppy that is at least 6 months old so you have a much better idea of what you are getting but if you are not knowledgeable about yorkies you could still be sold a unfinishable dog or one that could only be finished with a professional handler. There is a lot of hard work and money that goes into finishing a yorkie, no matter how good it is.

Reputable breeder/exhibitors will only sell show dogs not potential show dogs. It's not as easy as just attending shows. It takes a lot of effort on the part of the newbie in the beginning. I agree reputable breeder/exhibitors will not sell to just anyone. A newbie has to prove themselves, show their heart is in the right place, that they're in it to improve the breed not just to make a fast buck and go into the selling game. Turn around and call themselves show breeders to sell their dogs on somebody else's blood, sweat and tears. Those are the type of breeders that take advantage of newbies. But, as I said before if you're reputable, you don't operate that way.

I understand that newbies begin without doing their homework, they're in a hurry, want everything now.....So, they turn to the first person that will sell them a dog on open registration. Telling the newbie it's a show dog. I know that when newbies come to me for advice, I don't mince any words, I lay it on the line on how hard the road is. Some either believe me, others turn around and look for that person that has maybe obtained good pedigreed dogs via the backdoor, or maybe Championed one dog and sell a dog to them on open.

I know how tuff contracts can be, I have 2 extremely tuff ones; one for show and another for pet.

I will tell any newbie, the same thing that was told to me when I first started. Don't show, don't breed until your mentor says your ready. If by some chance you happen to get a good dog to show, send it to a handler. Because as a newbie you can ruin that dog.

I have a very good friend that was taken to the cleaners. She went to someone that said they were a show breeder. This person readily sold her 3 show dogs. None of them were show quality, the breeder wouldn't take them back. A well known reputable exhibitor/breeder (who has become her mentor) came into her home, without knowing where the dogs came from told her to rehome all of them. So, to the tune of $14,000 she took a big loss. Petted the dogs out and had to start over again.

I can offer this advice, because I've been there, it was tough. But, I will say it's tougher to enter the show world if you don't take the right steps. Reputable breeder/exhibitors will find it harder to trust you and you'll have a very difficult time getting a good dog. Especially if you've gone the backdoor to get a pedigreed dog.

Yes, it's expensive to finish a dog, more difficult and expensive if you don't know what you're doing. You could drag the dog around for a couple of years and maybe get 2 points on it. Even if you obtain a handler, you'd better know what you're looking for, which are the best and can finish them the fastest. And what if that dog isn't a good dog, a good handler can finish a dead cat. So, I'll say again, you'd better do your homework up front and know what you're doing. Or you'll turn around and breed that dog because you Championed it.

[bjh]

Mary, you have explained very well why most people do not get into showing and just resort to breeding. There are very few people who are serious enough about showing and going through the process of doing it right. Anyone can breed dogs but it takes a special person to make the kind of commitment you talk about.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

Mary, you have explained very well why most people do not get into showing and just resort to breeding. There are very few people who are serious enough about showing and going through the process of doing it right. Anyone can breed dogs but it takes a special person to make the kind of commitment you talk about.

Probably it was a good thing that I got bit by the show bug and find I dislike breeding. I love showing. Maybe that's the clue to starting out. Most people don't understand that one must study the breed inside and out before ever beginning a breeding program. I don't think it takes a special kind of person, just one that has a passion for the breed. Wanting to leave it better than they found it.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Probably it was a good thing that I got bit by the show bug and find I dislike breeding. I love showing. Maybe that's the clue to starting out. Most people don't understand that one must study the breed inside and out before ever beginning a breeding program. I don't think it takes a special kind of person, just one that has a passion for the breed. Wanting to leave it better than they found it.

I wish I could turn back the clock and do things a lot different. I know I have made my share of mistakes. I love showing too but just don't have the funds to do it right now. I have 18 months to go before I can start getting my retirement and if all goes well I sure hope to start going to more shows. At least that is my aspiration.

Some people can have a passion for the breed but not be mentored or they might be mentored by someone that does not share the same views as you. I see all kinds of yorkie breeders and I think many are passionate about what they do but not all have the same goals, values and ethics.

[tisheayorkies]

For the LOVE OF GOD! IM NOT SUSPENDED! if i was do you think i could register a litter in my name! get you facts straight, it was an error in akc reports, I HAVE MY DANG AKC RIGHTS! oh lord it shows people need to do something with their lifes beside HEAR SAY and post it! if you dont know me, dont judge me..everyone has a story..i stand behind my dogs, i never sell a show dog, they are prospects! and she doesnt even show!!!! we have a show contract for that, that shows its a lie! oh my...

[addicted]

Curious... how come whenever a breeder is talked about on YT.. comes on here to defend themselves? How did they know they were being discussed? Coincidence? They google themselves everyday?

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by addicted

Curious... how come whenever a breeder is talked about on YT.. comes on here to defend themselves? How did they know they were being discussed? Coincidence? They google themselves everyday?

Same as what happened recently on another thread. Someone takes it on their "well-meaning " selves to notify the person being talked about so they can come on and defend themselves against the accusations. They do have that right you know.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by tisheayorkies

For the LOVE OF GOD! IM NOT SUSPENDED! if i was do you think i could register a litter in my name! get you facts straight, it was an error in akc reports, I HAVE MY DANG AKC RIGHTS! oh lord it shows people need to do something with their lifes beside HEAR SAY and post it! if you dont know me, dont judge me..everyone has a story..i stand behind my dogs, i never sell a show dog, they are prospects! and she doesnt even show!!!! we have a show contract for that, that shows its a lie! oh my...

We know you are not suspended now. Many of us are just stating that we would not have handled the situation with this puppy buyer the way you did. Yes, it says in your contract that deposits are never returned, no matter what but that does not necessarily make it ethical. Also, the hernia is a big deal whether you think it is or not. It might no hurt the pup but you were wrong in not telling the puppy buyer about it. You can do whatever you want but we do have the right to our own opinion on what makes a breeder a good, ethical breeder that can be trusted.

[Mardelin]

Question? Does anyone have this person's website?

[addicted]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

Same as what happened recently on another thread. Someone takes it on their "well-meaning " selves to notify the person being talked about so they can come on and defend themselves against the accusations. They do have that right you know.

Definitely agree that they have the right to know. Just noticed a trend where they appear out of nowhere to defend. You're right though, someone must have told them. I just thought they googled their names or something everyday.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Question? Does anyone have this person's website?

Here is her website: index

[treasurebeauty]

Originally Posted by tisheayorkies

For the LOVE OF GOD! IM NOT SUSPENDED! if i was do you think i could register a litter in my name! get you facts straight, it was an error in akc reports, I HAVE MY DANG AKC RIGHTS! oh lord it shows people need to do something with their lifes beside HEAR SAY and post it! if you dont know me, dont judge me..everyone has a story..i stand behind my dogs, i never sell a show dog, they are prospects! and she doesnt even show!!!! we have a show contract for that, that shows its a lie! oh my...

I am getting a puppy from you for breeding; you know that at the very beginning, and plus the quality of dog for breeding and show should be about the same, not like these much difference. The quality of this puppy is not breedable.

And please, don't keep on making circle. I told you my point is that you shouldn't hide his hernia from me, by the time you found out about it, you should told me right away. You shouldn't ship him without telling me!!!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by treasurebeauty

I am getting a puppy from you for breeding; you know that at the very beginning, and plus the quality of dog for breeding and show should be about the same, not like these much difference. The quality of this puppy is not breedable.

And please, don't keep on making circle. I told you my point is that you shouldn't hide his hernia from me, by the time you found out about it, you should told me right away. You shouldn't ship him without telling me!!!

On Tiffany's website she says the following:

All puppies will be held only with deposit. All deposits are NON-REFUNDABLE!, NO EXCEPTIONS!! Deposits are 500.00 Non-Refundable, so please before placing a deposit, we want you to remember we do not refund deposits for any reason!
Show and Companion puppies will be available.
All Companion puppies are sold on limited registration.

Since she did not give you limited registration that tells me that she knew you intended to breed the dog otherwise she would have made it limited registration. Do you have the papers already? Did the contract mention limited registration? I just don't know that you can do anymore at this point. You have made her and us aware of the problems you had so that in itself brings awareness to others that are looking to buy a puppy from her or anyone. How is the puppy doing? Have you tried to tape his ears? How old is he now and how much does he weigh? I hope you love the little boy as he is or perhaps you can find him a wonderful home if he is not what you are wanting.