Finding the perfect yorkie

[yorkiekist]

I dont see anything wrong with her contract. I dont give the papers out anymore until proof of spay/neuter either. I dont have a "I'll sue you " clause though. But I will confiscate the dog if I found out it was bred, intentionally or un-intentionally. These kinds of contracts are not hard to follow. Its easy: spay or neuter.
Sorry about the other persons puppy getting Parvo. It seems to be getting more common that even with all innoculations, a dog can still get Parvo. Its happened to me also. I wont guarantee against Parvo anymore. Too many strains out there.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I dont see anything wrong with her contract. I dont give the papers out anymore until proof of spay/neuter either. I dont have a "I'll sue you " clause though. But I will confiscate the dog if I found out it was bred, intentionally or un-intentionally. These kinds of contracts are not hard to follow. Its easy: spay or neuter.
Sorry about the other persons puppy getting Parvo. It seems to be getting more common that even with all innoculations, a dog can still get Parvo. Its happened to me also. I wont guarantee against Parvo anymore. Too many strains out there.

If someone happen to open the door and the dog darts out and get pregnant in the process.. then where is it right to confiscate the dog back ?
and demand a huge amount ?
Because we all know people's dogs do get away from them at times.
Even when they try to be as careful as possible.
I know I had one to dart on me..Thanks god she didn't go far.

I don't see a problem with the holding of the papers until the spay/neuter
is completed.
But, it's not right.
To not give the papers, if you say your going to.
Once the spay/neuter is completed.
If the person paid for a papered dog, then they should get the papers.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

If someone happen to open the door and the dog darts out and get pregnant in the process.. then where is it right to confiscate the dog back ?
and demand a huge amount ?
Because we all know people's dogs do get away from them at times.
Even when they try to be as careful as possible.
I know I had one to dart on me..Thanks god she didn't go far.

I don't see a problem with the holding of the papers until the spay/neuter
is completed.
But, it's not right.
To not give the papers, if you say your going to.
Once the spay/neuter is completed.
If the person paid for a papered dog, then they should get the papers.

Yes that lady should have gotten her papers.
Since I try very hard to be a responsible breeder, I am looking for responsible buyers. Buyers need a fenced yard. Most of the "accidental pregnancies" are due to irresponsiblity or a "hidden agenda". If I sell a girl that is "accidentally" bred then I know that this is not the "responsible" home I want the dog in. My contract states that all puppies will be spayed/neutered by 10 monthes of age. There is little probability that this dog can be bred even if it does run out the front door. If I sell an older puppy, I will have them spayed/neutered before they go to the new owners.

[topknot]

Holding papers back till proof - It is the only way breeders can protect ourselves these days from people trying to breed a yorkie that we think is a pet. We take this very serious and with the way things are now, people can lie or change their mind later once they have the pup. I have had some people come to my home and passed the screening with flying colors - very nice people and nice homes, excellent references, but when they were ready to sign my contract they commented that they had changed their mind and might want to breed her/him when they get older, just so they can have one litter. I had already explained to them before they even came to my home of what my conditions were - to spay/neuter. Therefore I also hold papers and get a copy of the vet report/receipt to confirm that the pup was spayed/neutered. Sometimes I even call the vet too to confirm. Then I send out the AKC papers. If a pup is 6 months when sold I will spay/neuter before they leave if sold as a pet. My vet will not spay/neuter a pup under 5 months of age and many people prefer a pup younger - reason for the contract wording to hold papers till proof of spay/neuter comes. YTCA ask release of Limited papers upon vet certification of pup being spayed/neutered - See number 7 in conduct - Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Code of Ethics Luckily I do not breed often and do not have to deal with this much, since I only breed for myself. If people do not like my contract, they can go somewhere else. I have to do what I have to to protect my pups. I am the only advocate they have! How often do we see that people want to breed and know nothing? Reason enough to protect the pups.

If you have a pup as a pet - why do you need papers? You should know whom the parents are and have a pedigree of the pup, and trust your breeder, if you buy a pup from someone. Full registration Papers are only needed if you are going to breed or show in confirmation. So you really do not need the papers to have in your hands if the pup is just a pet for yourself. I had horses and they were registered by their breeder. I never sent in their papers since I was not going to show or breed them. It just wasn't needed to me. I do give Limited registration AKC papers to my buyers once I have vet certification of the pup's spay/neutered. And Limited papers do not mean they are less - it still means they are registered by AKC, but that you cannot breed or show in confirmaiton.

There are different strains of Parvo out there now and the shots the pups/dogs get do not cover all strains. I use to be a vet tech years ago when Parvo first came out in the 70's/80's. There was not a vaccine for it back then and took awhile to develop a vaccine for it. Unfortunely these ugly virus can mute and change and then vaccines do not cover all strains of the virus. Just look at the flu virus - how many different strains are there of that. Look we even have the Swine virus now. You should be provided with a vaccine and health record of the pup when you purchase a pup/dog.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

To me I think it's an unreasonable contract.
From what I read
The dog does not really belong to you until the spay/neuter is completed.

Say the dog gets loose and gets pregnant.
She wants 5000.00 and you have to give the dog back.

I just think if one is so worried about the spay and neuter part they
need to keep it longer and have it done before the dog is placed.
It's not a contract I would agree to and I don't know of many other's that would either.

My contract also stipulates that if I have sold a puppy less than 6 months old which is always for pet only, I do not sell breeding stock to anyone, there is a $5000 fine and I get the dog and any progeny back. The pups I would have to give away to good homes as I cannot sell them under Canadian Kennel CLub rules unless I knew who the sire is and he would have to be registered, I would have to lift the non breeding on the dam and figure out how to register the litter and individual pups and pay for all that. So where would I make money on that one besides nowhere? Except maybe the $5000 fine which is only there to put the case into small claims court so the rest of the contract can be enforced.
You see, a breeder who cares about their lines and their dogs will protect them. It is easy for someone to want to buy a pet, turn around and breed it and sell unregistered puppies. Then they will advertise saying it is from a champion line. The Canadian Kennel Club can do squat about it except if there is a CKC non breeding contract, they will not register those pups from a bitch or dog for that matter that was registered with a nonbreeding contract. I also do not ever want one of my dogs in the hands of some low life that will do something like this.
So with my private contract, the purchaser and I also completes the CKC non breeding contract that goes with the transfer of ownership to the CKC. But it is up to me to enforce that to be sure that Yorkie I have sold for pet under non breeding is not used for breeding.
Many people who approach me for a puppy want one less than six months of age. i don't want to do early spay/neuter. I don't sell a pup less than six months of age out of my area. I will only sell locally to select enquirers and if less than 6 months, usually someone with a track record, ie either already has one, is known to someone I know, has a local Vet I can contact or other references and you can be sure I will check them out.
I will add that most I do sell are more than six months and spayed or neutered.
As for Patellas, I don't think you will find a breeder that will guarantee them in a contract. Patellas are not always a birth issue, they can be damaged by an overzealous vet or an injury not the fault of the breeder at all.
I have had one pup I sold 8 years ago now that came up with a knee issue. They contacted me, he was about 7 months old. I had them take him to my Vet, easy because they are local. My Vet did the surgery, he told me yes this case was a birth issue, I paid for the surgery. He is now 8 years old and still doing great. He did some Obedience when he was a few years old.
No it was not in my contract, but I felt obligated to cover it.
If you think that is a tough contract, you should see the contracts I abide by when getting a stud service or buying a show dog from a REPUTABLE 30+ years show breeder. There are a lot more stipulations that controls what I can or cannot do with the dog I bought from them. As I am well known, many of these contracts are verbal agreements as the breeders I deal with know me very well.
If you want to deal with reputable breeders, there will be contracts regardless of your purpose of purchasing. If you don't want contracts, you are on your own from every aspect.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by topknot

Holding papers back till proof - It is the only way breeders can protect ourselves these days from people trying to breed a yorkie that we think is a pet. We take this very serious and with the way things are now, people can lie or change their mind later once they have the pup. I have had some people come to my home and passed the screening with flying colors - very nice people and nice homes, excellent references, but when they were ready to sign my contract they commented that they had changed their mind and might want to breed her/him when they get older, just so they can have one litter. I had already explained to them before they even came to my home of what my conditions were - to spay/neuter. Therefore I also hold papers and get a copy of the vet report/receipt to confirm that the pup was spayed/neutered. Sometimes I even call the vet too to confirm. Then I send out the AKC papers. If a pup is 6 months when sold I will spay/neuter before they leave if sold as a pet. My vet will not spay/neuter a pup under 5 months of age and many people prefer a pup younger - reason for the contract wording to hold papers till proof of spay/neuter comes. YTCA ask release of Limited papers upon vet certification of pup being spayed/neutered - See number 7 in conduct - Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Code of Ethics Luckily I do not breed often and do not have to deal with this much, since I only breed for myself. If people do not like my contract, they can go somewhere else. I have to do what I have to to protect my pups. I am the only advocate they have! How often do we see that people want to breed and know nothing? Reason enough to protect the pups.

If you have a pup as a pet - why do you need papers? You should know whom the parents are and have a pedigree of the pup, and trust your breeder, if you buy a pup from someone. Full registration Papers are only needed if you are going to breed or show in confirmation. So you really do not need the papers to have in your hands if the pup is just a pet for yourself. I had horses and they were registered by their breeder. I never sent in their papers since I was not going to show or breed them. It just wasn't needed to me. I do give Limited registration AKC papers to my buyers once I have vet certification of the pup's spay/neutered. And Limited papers do not mean they are less - it still means they are registered by AKC, but that you cannot breed or show in confirmaiton.

There are different strains of Parvo out there now and the shots the pups/dogs get do not cover all strains. I use to be a vet tech years ago when Parvo first came out in the 70's/80's. There was not a vaccine for it back then and took awhile to develop a vaccine for it. Unfortunely these ugly virus can mute and change and then vaccines do not cover all strains of the virus. Just look at the flu virus - how many different strains are there of that. Look we even have the Swine virus now. You should be provided with a vaccine and health record of the pup when you purchase a pup/dog.

Under our Canadian Kennel Club rules, as a member in good standing which we can join the CKC, we are required to provide registration certificates at our expense. We cannot charge extra prices for papers, ie $1000 without papers, $1500 with papers, that is illegal.
So we fill out the paperwork for the transfer and submit it to the CKC, the new owner gets the registration with the breeders name as the breeder and the new owner as the owner. This is regardless of whether it is sold nonbreeding or on open registration.
For nonbreeding, there is a form we complete with our signature as the breeder and the buyers signature which verifys the understanding that this is sold for pet only not to be bred. The registration certificat that is then sent by the CKC to the new owner has Non breeding written across it.
This is important also for anyone that puts their dog out for public stud. you must ask to see the registration certificate of the bitch being servced to be sure the litter can be registered.
The CKC will not register a litter born with either parent that does not have full registration.
Which is not going to stop someone who just wants to breed and sell puppies. Which of course, we are well aware of.

[Lorraine]

However, it occured to me that a private contract requiring spay/neuter be done before papers will be transferred can be done, I believe.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups

I see show breeder giving great reviews... well I was not and am not..I would never deal with this breeder .... I got a dog from her.. was told she has all her shots.. she got parvo... big bucks to keep her alive... and she was such an aggresive darling girl.. my daughter had to take her.. she wanted to kill the two yorkies I had at the time..
I was called an idiot by this breeder Debbie (Squirrel Yorkies and if I said anything she would take me to court... very threatening and very intimidating to some people.. Not to me.. she was spayed.. and never did receive papers..

I have been told by show breeders I should still report the fact that I had her spayed.. in fact a co breeder of hers at the time.. took this girl to her vet to have her spayed.. so what better proof of a spay..

But show breeders do not usually get burnt like a person looking for a pet...


anne

interesting. I just talked to Debbie and she said she has never sold you a dog doesn't have a clue who you are.
I wouldn't deal with you either a year or so ago when you thought I might. No one reputable would as your intent is just to breed and sell.
As I recall you had some problems with someone importing and reselling, broker type I believe. Well, deal with a broker you kind of get what comes with that.

[squirrelyorkies]

Hello. I AM Squirrel Yorkies.

I have NEVER sold a dog to the person who claims I have.

If this person is indeed telling the truth, I challenge her to produce a copy ofy contract - NO DOG LEAVES MY HOME WITHOUT ONE.

And, on the topic of my contract, it is ther to both protect my dog as well as myself. I do not force anyone to sign my contract. However, if you don't, then you don't get a Yorkie from me. I also do not guarantee patellas because every day trauma effects the knees; I do not cover undescended testicles becausey contract clearly states they are to be removed, so it is a moot point (a show contract would cover this).

One can moan about everything and anything...which is their right...my right is to ensure that my babies go to responsible homes and that my stipulations are met. It is for that reason that my name in this breed is beyond reproach and that I still currently have relationships with puppy buyers whose Yorkies are now seniors (was just talking to one whose puppy is now 14).

Hope that clarifies things. You guys obviously have a lied in you midst!!

[squirrelyorkies]

Hello. I AM Squirrel Yorkies.

I have NEVER sold a dog to the person who claims I have.

I have NEVER had a dog with parvovirus.

If this person is indeed telling the truth, I challenge her to produce a copy of my contract - NO DOG LEAVES MY HOME WITHOUT ONE.

And, on the topic of my contract, it is there to both protect my dog as well as myself. I do not force anyone to sign my contract. However, if you don't, then you don't get a Yorkie from me.

I do not guarantee patellas because every day trauma effects the knees; I do not cover undescended testicles because my contract clearly states they are to be removed, so it is a moot point (a show contract would cover this.

All my pups leave me having been vet checked and having had received all their booster shots. I do not recommend spaying or neutering until 8 - 10 months old, when puppy teeth can also be seen to. Others may do things differently, this is how I do it.

One can moan about everything and anything...which is their right...my right is to ensure that my babies go to responsible homes and that my stipulations are met. It is for that reason that my name in this breed is beyond reproach and that I still currently have relationships with puppy buyers whose Yorkies are now seniors (was just talking to one whose puppy is now 14).

Hope that clarifies things. You guys obviously have a liar in you midst!!

[squirrelyorkies]

Sorry about the double post. Went back to add something and correct grammar and did not realize it had already submitted it. Hard writing o. The iPhone.

[Lorraine]

Pretty much the same for any reputable breeder exactly as Debbie has said. I always find it interesting that the moaners about show breeders are always the ones that don't want contracts. Is the moaning because we require one should we decide to sell one to the enquirer in the first place - which is never a given.

[squirrelyorkies]

Originally Posted by lingenieuse

I would find another breeder.The contract does not cover patellas,a congenital disorder,which makes me think that she breeds dogs that do not have normal patellas.If neutering is so important to her,she should do it before she sells the pups.

A) Patellas can be hereditary, congenital OR from trauma. Yorkies running on hardwood floors will cause slips...falling, jumping, etc will cause slips. I will not cover this if. All MY pups leave vet checked and I give 72 hrs to have them vet checked with a FULL refund...

B) I cover ALL congenital disorders -> Happily, in 25 yrs of breeding dogs, I've yet to have a puppy returned for any congenital problem.

C) Neutering is of PRIME importance to me - if one does not like the fact that they are required to have their puppy sterilized, then go elsewhere.

Sheesh, people, what are you really thinking? Seems like you have a couple of reputable breeders on here who are trying to educate you...seems like some of you are really bad learners.

I, for one, am not here to educate you. This world is made up of people who will always know better...So Be It...but these people will NOT be getting a puppy from me.

Owning ANY dog should not be a right...it should be a priveledge. There are far too many dogs/cats in this world...sadly, most of them come from disreputable breeders. I am sure there are many arguements to be made, but, in the end, it will always come back to the fact that a reputable breeder will stand behind their dogs...It is the disreputable one that won't.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by topknot

Holding papers back till proof - It is the only way breeders can protect ourselves these days from people trying to breed a yorkie that we think is a pet. We take this very serious and with the way things are now, people can lie or change their mind later once they have the pup. I have had some people come to my home and passed the screening with flying colors - very nice people and nice homes, excellent references, but when they were ready to sign my contract they commented that they had changed their mind and might want to breed her/him when they get older, just so they can have one litter. I had already explained to them before they even came to my home of what my conditions were - to spay/neuter. Therefore I also hold papers and get a copy of the vet report/receipt to confirm that the pup was spayed/neutered. Sometimes I even call the vet too to confirm. Then I send out the AKC papers. If a pup is 6 months when sold I will spay/neuter before they leave if sold as a pet. My vet will not spay/neuter a pup under 5 months of age and many people prefer a pup younger - reason for the contract wording to hold papers till proof of spay/neuter comes. YTCA ask release of Limited papers upon vet certification of pup being spayed/neutered - See number 7 in conduct - Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Code of Ethics Luckily I do not breed often and do not have to deal with this much, since I only breed for myself. If people do not like my contract, they can go somewhere else. I have to do what I have to to protect my pups. I am the only advocate they have! How often do we see that people want to breed and know nothing? Reason enough to protect the pups.

If you have a pup as a pet - why do you need papers? You should know whom the parents are and have a pedigree of the pup, and trust your breeder, if you buy a pup from someone. Full registration Papers are only needed if you are going to breed or show in confirmation. So you really do not need the papers to have in your hands if the pup is just a pet for yourself. I had horses and they were registered by their breeder. I never sent in their papers since I was not going to show or breed them. It just wasn't needed to me. I do give Limited registration AKC papers to my buyers once I have vet certification of the pup's spay/neutered. And Limited papers do not mean they are less - it still means they are registered by AKC, but that you cannot breed or show in confirmaiton.

There are different strains of Parvo out there now and the shots the pups/dogs get do not cover all strains. I use to be a vet tech years ago when Parvo first came out in the 70's/80's. There was not a vaccine for it back then and took awhile to develop a vaccine for it. Unfortunely these ugly virus can mute and change and then vaccines do not cover all strains of the virus. Just look at the flu virus - how many different strains are there of that. Look we even have the Swine virus now. You should be provided with a vaccine and health record of the pup when you purchase a pup/dog.

I don’t understand what
# 7) An exhibitor-member shall not alter a dog’s natural appearance except as provided
in the Yorkshire Terrier Standard.

Can you explain Please.


While I do understand the desire to protect pups and lines.
IMO..I still think some contract demands are unreasonable.
A few of the other things that caught my attention with the contract …

1. You have 72 hours to take the dog to a Vet and (2 days) of the dated Vet certificate, refund to the buyer ?
What is does the (?) mean after the word buyer mean ???
That maybe you will or won’t get a refund ???

So what happen if the dog is to sick to be transported back, in the 2 day period ?
Contract was just voided.

2. The dog is guaranteed for 2 years against congenital disease
BUT, only if the dog dies.
Nothing is really covered in this contract.

Yes, it is everyone’s right to look else where if they don’t like a certain contract.

You asked
If you have a pup as a pet - why do you need papers?

If one advertises the pups are AKC registered and papers are to be given with the dog upon spay/neuter competition.
Then paper should be given.
Otherwise a person breached their own contract by not doing so.

Some people enjoy the showing part
Some enjoy the breeding part.
Some enjoy the conformation part.
If some one wants to show the dog in conformation, doesn’t one need to have a papered dog ?
There are other registries that allow showing of dogs even if they are fixed,
And, I would assume they would need the dogs papers to do so.

[squirrelyorkies]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

However, it occured to me that a private contract requiring spay/neuter be done before papers will be transferred can be done, I believe.

Lorraine,

CKC requires that papers be provided within 6 months of date of sale...that is why my contract is worded that the sale is not deemed complete until proof of sterilization is provided. Once I am provided with the proof that I can verify, then I start the transfer process and have 6 months to do it. It usually takes 4 - 6 weeks to complete.

Feel free to use my wording. I looked at a lot of contracts to come up with one that I felt comfortable with.

If I keep a show prospect that doesn't pan out, I will get them altered if they are at the age to do so and then sell them. Please be aware that none of you have gotten dogs with free alterations...the price does reflect the cost to the breeder. You can get a pup from me for $1500 and pay $300 to have them altered...or, you can buy and altered pup for $1800 - same thing!! (not sure on the $$ in your area, it greatly varies).

It is like the person on here that says 'what if the dog gets out' - OMG - to even say that?!?!?! To justify not watching their animal...NOT IN MY HOME!

BTW, there is a 'morning after' pill for dogs. If your dog does 'gets out' and you think she's been bred, then either get the pill or, better yet, bring her in and get her spayed immediately.

RIDICULOUS arguement!!!

Debbie