How much should stud fee's be?

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

Only amateurs count the percentage of "red". Why are you being so defensive?

CJ

I'd be defensive too. In a couple of your previous posts, you seem to talk down to her. Don't all breeders start off as amateurs? Even experts have made mistakes, too. I don't know the history of you two, but I would have been upset, too.

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

Well this female is a "virgin" in that department. But even if I had agreed to breeding w/ her I was going to require her to be vet checked and tested anyway. I think I've basically come to the decision to not ever breed Harley. I'm going to have to talk it over w/ my boyfriend when he gets back sunday night but I'm pretty much decided not to use him as a stud at all. I don't know about his background or whether he has any "red" in it either but I emailed my breeders to ask some questions. So I'm basically getting the impression that I shouldn't breed him for several reasons. Firstly, there's a huge chance that I could lose the personality of my Harley that I love so much. Secondly, his health could be in jeapardy. Thirdly, bc he might not be of high enough standards and might not have the best background.

I think you're thinking this through in a very sound way. I especially appreciate your concern that his personality will change. That's a very real probability and I'm impressed that you're that concerned about your relationship with him more than anything else. Good for you!

I wanted to apologize to you personally for the way your simple question evolved into a spitting match. People have very strong feelings about this.

CJ

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

You are way of the mark. Just because the bitch did not produce a liter does not mean that the fault is hers. You may have bred her too soon or too late in her cycle. Your male may have ejaculated too soon and no sperm ended up inside the female.

You owe the owner of the bich a second breeding if no live puppies are the result of the breeding. No ifs and or buts. That is just common courtesy- I am sure that you would want one if you were in the other persons place.

Once again we are back on the same old train that is going to derail- hope that I am not on the tracks this time. You will be laughed out of town if you think that your stud fee is worth what you paid for your puppy unless you paid $400.00 or less for your puppy. I can get my females bred to top winning Champions whose show records are in the top 20 of this breed for $1,200.00. My one male who is finished as a UKC Champion and needs a major is not worth $1,200.00 I am charging $400.00 for him- have a son of a Best In show Winner ( who was in the top 20 for show record placements) he is priced at $400.00.

You had better have a outstanding dog with outstanding bloodlines- and a outstanding show record to think that you can step up to the big league.

If you have a average pet that you are wanting to use at stud - I advice clients that I would not pay over $250.00 to $300.00 to use that caliber of male. Hate to bust your bubble.

Bust my bubble? Firstly there's no real need to be so blantantly rude to me. I have never bred before. And never charged a stud fee and never bred a female. This site was created to help people. People like me. So I posted my thread and asked my question and I've got A LOT of different questions from a lot of different people. Your response made me feel like I was some sort of inferior child. Everyone was a newbie once and I feel quite offended. I never said that I thought that charging the price of my puppy was the correct way of charging a stud fee. That's just the first thing that I was told by a local breeder. I wasn't sure so I asked. Like a good and intelligent person I wanted to know the truth so I went to the one place where I believed I could ask any question and get back answers w/o feeling like an idiot. (this was an English Bulldog breeder btw not a yorkie one- so maybe it's different in that breeding circle- those puppies start at 1,200 and that's the lowest price around here.. w/ no red in the petigree too) And another thing is I did say that if puppies weren't produced I would do another freebie breeding. I'm impressed that you have such stupendous dogs but mine is average but that doesn't make him nonexistent. And I had no intentions of "stepping up to the big league" w/ him. A couple wants to breed for a puppies for their grandchildren. That's it. I don't know what your intentions were in your response Wnalegria but whatever they were they hurt. You could have just told me the facts like everyone else instead of making me look and feel like a loser.

[yorkiegold]

Just one last thought. Do you breed for a fee or a puppy? Doesn't giving a puppy for a stud fee make the stud fee equal to a puppy sale? You people are so ready for a fight.

CJ

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

Just one last thought. Do you breed for a fee or a puppy? Doesn't giving a puppy for a stud fee make the stud fee equal to a puppy sale? You people are so ready for a fight.

CJ

That is a tough one...

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

I'd be defensive too. In a couple of your previous posts, you seem to talk down to her. Don't all breeders start off as amateurs? Even experts have made mistakes, too. I don't know the history of you two, but I would have been upset, too.

I hope you'll go back and read the thread from the beginning. We all make mistakes when we try to play God which is what breeders are trying to do. I have a huge problem with breeders who are only breeding to make money and are in it as a "business". Just my own personal prejudice.

I didn't mean to talk down to anyone, but I did feel compelled to challenge some statments that were made.

CJ

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

I think you're thinking this through in a very sound way. I especially appreciate your concern that his personality will change. That's a very real probability and I'm impressed that you're that concerned about your relationship with him more than anything else. Good for you!

I wanted to apologize to you personally for the way your simple question evolved into a spitting match. People have very strong feelings about this.

CJ

Thank you for that. Yes I definately have Harleys best interest as my biggest concern. I never expected my question to start up such a "match" and I'm sorry for that! But I really appriciate the appology bc at particular points I felt pretty nailed to the wall w/ some of the responses I got and w/ some of the questions I had thrown at me. Not necessarily the content of them bothered me but the way they were said is was hurt. I was really fighting w/ myself this morning whether I wanted to check my email or not for messages bc I wasn't sure I wanted to come back. This site is very informative but can at times be extremely intimidating.

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

Didn't dismiss the pedigree. Only amateurs count the percentage of "red".
You can't tell me anything about AI. Been there done that. However, it's not natural and there are many breeders who won't do it. That's not what we were talking about. I know you've done a lot of reading, Kim.

Talk about not making sense. You said that a champion is a champion, BUT if they're in the top 20, then maybe they can charge more. So you're admitting that some dogs command a higher stud fee because of their show record. So some ARE worth more?

Using the handiest stud is not good breeding practice whether he's a champion or not. Most good breeders study pedigrees, go to dog shows and meet the upcoming youngsters and make their decisions based on many things and consider the stud fee last.

I still maintain that using your dog as a stud dog is fraught with risk and hassle and a fee should be set that takes that into account.

"Traditionally" is the word I used that seems to have thrown you off of my point. The practice of charging a stud fee equal to cost of the progeny is traditional in the sense that it has been that way for hundreds of years. May not be that way in the year 2005 in Portland, Oregon. If you can get a great "deal" then go for it. Why are you being so defensive?

CJ

CJ why are you so condensending! You accuse me of being an amateur, accuse me of not using tested dogs accuse me of using what is handy in breeding, accuse me of breeding to a champion dog that may not deserve its champion and finally accuse me of not having any thought to my breeding program!!

Who are you to even allude to know me, the quality of dog I produce.

I know the Rod-Del pedigree well and wouldnt own one not only because of the past reputation of the Kennel selling to pet stores and breeding over 80 different breeds oh but now theyve narrowed that down to only 30 different breeds. They are also known for selling their used breeding bitches they feel ready for retirement with full AKC to pass down the breeding to the BYB.

CJ if your dogs are of the "yorkiegold" quality you speak and their offspring are special one would think you must have a long wait list placing your kids, instead you advertise in a local news paper for $1000, interesting!!!!!!

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

Bust my bubble? Firstly there's no real need to be so blantantly rude to me. I have never bred before. And never charged a stud fee and never bred a female. This site was created to help people. People like me. So I posted my thread and asked my question and I've got A LOT of different questions from a lot of different people. Your response made me feel like I was some sort of inferior child. Everyone was a newbie once and I feel quite offended. I never said that I thought that charging the price of my puppy was the correct way of charging a stud fee. That's just the first thing that I was told by a local breeder. I wasn't sure so I asked. Like a good and intelligent person I wanted to know the truth so I went to the one place where I believed I could ask any question and get back answers w/o feeling like an idiot. (this was an English Bulldog breeder btw not a yorkie one- so maybe it's different in that breeding circle- those puppies start at 1,200 and that's the lowest price around here.. w/ no red in the petigree too) And another thing is I did say that if puppies weren't produced I would do another freebie breeding. I'm impressed that you have such stupendous dogs but mine is average but that doesn't make him nonexistent. And I had no intentions of "stepping up to the big league" w/ him. A couple wants to breed for a puppies for their grandchildren. That's it. I don't know what your intentions were in your response Wnalegria but whatever they were they hurt. You could have just told me the facts like everyone else instead of making me look and feel like a loser.

Don't take it personally. I don't believe that she intended her post to be to hard. You did the right thing to ask around but the final decision is yours. Harley is a lucky man to have you for a momma!

[feminvstr]

Harley youre making the right choice. I am sure Kathy didnt mean any harm in what she posted she was merely pointing out the importance in making an educated decision in studding your little man.

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

Harley youre making the right choice. I am sure Kathy didnt mean any harm in what she posted she was merely pointing out the importance in making an educated decision in studding your little man.

Thanks. I know how important it is is to be educated when making a decision like this.. That's why I posted this thread and have been asking all these questions. But it's the way she said things that just made me feel like an idiot so I just let her know so maybe next time we get to talk we can both be aware of how we interpret eachother words. I know how difficult it can be to interpret moods, feelings and intents over the internet so I was just being honest. I know she meant well I just felt stupid w/ the way she said it.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

I hope you'll go back and read the thread from the beginning. We all make mistakes when we try to play God which is what breeders are trying to do. I have a huge problem with breeders who are only breeding to make money and are in it as a "business". Just my own personal prejudice.

I didn't mean to talk down to anyone, but I did feel compelled to challenge some statments that were made.

CJ

Well, Kimberly has been a great assett to YT. Her website is very informative and educational. I also know that Mercedes has great potential to finish in the show ring. Kimberly is a reputable breeder and takes great care in placing her pups.

I just don't like to see the condescending tone that you took with her. Treat people as you would like to be treated. Your tone of words really made you look to be a not-so-nice person. We're just all here to talk about our furbabies.

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Well, Kimberly has been a great assett to YT. Her website is very informative and educational. I also know that Mercedes has great potential to finish in the show ring. Kimberly is a reputable breeder and takes great care in placing her pups.

I just don't like to see the condescending tone that you took with her. Treat people as you would like to be treated. Your tone of words really made you look to be a not-so-nice person. We're just all here to talk about our furbabies.

Kimberly is very fortunate to have you to defend her. I apologize to everyone who has participated in the thread for any offense.

CJ

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

Bust my bubble? Firstly there's no real need to be so blantantly rude to me. I have never bred before. And never charged a stud fee and never bred a female. This site was created to help people. People like me. So I posted my thread and asked my question and I've got A LOT of different questions from a lot of different people. Your response made me feel like I was some sort of inferior child. Everyone was a newbie once and I feel quite offended. I never said that I thought that charging the price of my puppy was the correct way of charging a stud fee. That's just the first thing that I was told by a local breeder. I wasn't sure so I asked. Like a good and intelligent person I wanted to know the truth so I went to the one place where I believed I could ask any question and get back answers w/o feeling like an idiot. (this was an English Bulldog breeder btw not a yorkie one- so maybe it's different in that breeding circle- those puppies start at 1,200 and that's the lowest price around here.. w/ no red in the petigree too) And another thing is I did say that if puppies weren't produced I would do another freebie breeding. I'm impressed that you have such stupendous dogs but mine is average but that doesn't make him nonexistent. And I had no intentions of "stepping up to the big league" w/ him. A couple wants to breed for a puppies for their grandchildren. That's it. I don't know what your intentions were in your response Wnalegria but whatever they were they hurt. You could have just told me the facts like everyone else instead of making me look and feel like a loser.

Re read the the thread- I said that my dogs were not worth $1,200.00 for a stud fee. If I was trying yo make you feel inferior I would have stated that my dogs were better then yours and I did not do that.

Many folks on here give newbies a lot of crap and cause a lot of confusion. Stating that you are breeding Champion puppies because a judge bought one of your puppies does not mean you are breeding Champion puppies. I had a international judge look at two of my guys- was told that I should show them at international shows and that they should finish- does that mean I should advertise them as I am breeding international Champs- No way.

A lot of valuable information was gave to you- look at the archives this subject has been digested and spit up on many a occasion. The end result is that the newbie gets hurt feelings. Which would you rather have the person who pats you on the head and leads you down the wrong road with wrong and incorrect information or the person who cares enough about you to give you the information in clear simple black and white. Why waste words be direct and to the point.

We never discussed if you should breed the male or female - did they have something to add to the gene pool. What kind of faults do they have? Over the past thirty years I can not count the number of times I have heard- We just want puppies for family or friends and the puppies will be spayed or neutered. 60% of the time those puppies are bred when they become adults. They are never spayed or neutered. The stud is often sold because that wonderful mild mannered male is no longer housebroke and lifts his leg on anything that does not run away from him. If there is a female in heat for a week he is a walking penisaurs with naught for a brain.

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

Re read the the thread- I said that my dogs were not worth $1,200.00 for a stud fee. If I was trying yo make you feel inferior I would have stated that my dogs were better then yours and I did not do that.

Many folks on here give newbies a lot of crap and cause a lot of confusion. Stating that you are breeding Champion puppies because a judge bought one of your puppies does not mean you are breeding Champion puppies. I had a international judge look at two of my guys- was told that I should show them at international shows and that they should finish- does that mean I should advertise them as I am breeding international Champs- No way.

A lot of valuable information was gave to you- look at the archives this subject has been digested and spit up on many a occasion. The end result is that the newbie gets hurt feelings. Which would you rather have the person who pats you on the head and leads you down the wrong road with wrong and incorrect information or the person who cares enough about you to give you the information in clear simple black and white. Why waste words be direct and to the point.

We never discussed if you should breed the male or female - did they have something to add to the gene pool. What kind of faults do they have? Over the past thirty years I can not count the number of times I have heard- We just want puppies for family or friends and the puppies will be spayed or neutered. 60% of the time those puppies are bred when they become adults. They are never spayed or neutered. The stud is often sold because that wonderful mild mannered male is no longer housebroke and lifts his leg on anything that does not run away from him. If there is a female in heat for a week he is a walking penisaurs with naught for a brain.

I appologize for taking your response so personally. Of course I would rather have a person who cares enough to give me real facts instead of patting me on the head and feeding me nothing but junk info. Thats why I posted this thread. If I didn't care I wouldn't have worried about it and bred him and not worried so much about him, the couples female and the possible out come of their breeding. I care a lot more than some. I want nothing but the best for my dog and if that means not breeding him then I won't. Period. This is not about the money and never has been. I have spent years and years searching for the right dog for me. I have always wanted a yorkie of my own and now that I have found my Harley I wouldn't trade him for the world. If there was a breeding to even occur there was going to be a signed legal agreement stating that whatever puppies were produced were going to be fixed. These people live 4 miles from my house. Their whole family lives on the same street two houses apart. If they were to get puppies they weren't going to be bred out or sold to anyone. I realize the risk involved. I also realize that Harleys total disposition can change when or if I decide to breed him. And he is my biggest concern. Not the money and not that couple. I love my dog w/ all my heart and that's why I'm on this site. Yes, I'm a newbie. And yes my feelings did get hurt. But that makes me human. I will bet my life that every single person on this site has atleast once in their time spent online here felt abashed, embarassed or inferior. And this just happened to be one of those times for me. Like I said I'm sorry. The internet makes it almost completely impossible to speak to another person and understand their real emotions, moods and intentions.

I've pretty much decided not to breed Harley. Obviously, it's not worth it. Thanks to everyone who gave information. It's much appriciated.