What should I do regarding breeder?

[BrendaS54]

Okay, I have a problem also. I bought a puppy from someone that USED to be on YT. A female puppy . She turned a year old Feb 5th. She was 5 mths old when I got her. She also has a food aggression an doesn't get along with my maltese either. I have to keep them separted. She has bit me an a friend. She charges the door. We have tried everything. She has flunked the Training Class. I still love her. She has a great personality an loves to play. Very hyper! She was taken to the vets when I got her an he said she was healthy. She is a very beautiful baby. I took her two weeks ago to get her updated shots etc this was to a different vet. He checked her head to toe an right away said both back legs had Luxating Pattelas. I was shocked! She never limped, or held either leg up at all. He said the right was really bad .. the left wasn't as bad. I don't get it.. Is it genetic? I called the breeder an she said her Vet said it isn't genetic. They can get it from jumping up an etc. It is a very costly surgery since it is both legs. I just called the breeder to let her know. I don't want another puppy, I love my little girl too much. She goes to MSU Vet school next week to get evaluated etc. It already cost me 400.00 so far. Should I do something about the breeder or what? I don't want her to sell other dogs if this is heriditary. Just would like to ease my mind.
Thanks everyone

[MyFairLacy]

Luxating patellas are a hard one. Yes it's genetic but it can also be caused by an injury. Mild LPs can also be worsened by injury. A breeder ought to be only breeding sound dogs with tight patellas and ideally xraying and getting them OFAed. But sound dogs can have puppies with LPs. If a puppy has severe LPs and wasn't injured a breeder ought to cover it, but it is a hard one to cover because most toy breed dogs will at least have mild LPs and are usually jumping.

With that said I know who your breeder is...a local friend of mine has a dog from her too...

Originally Posted by BrendaS54

Okay, I have a problem also. I bought a puppy from someone that USED to be on YT. A female puppy . She turned a year old Feb 5th. She was 5 mths old when I got her. She also has a food aggression an doesn't get along with my maltese either. I have to keep them separted. She has bit me an a friend. She charges the door. We have tried everything. She has flunked the Training Class. I still love her. She has a great personality an loves to play. Very hyper! She was taken to the vets when I got her an he said she was healthy. She is a very beautiful baby. I took her two weeks ago to get her updated shots etc this was to a different vet. He checked her head to toe an right away said both back legs had Luxating Pattelas. I was shocked! She never limped, or held either leg up at all. He said the right was really bad .. the left wasn't as bad. I don't get it.. Is it genetic? I called the breeder an she said her Vet said it isn't genetic. They can get it from jumping up an etc. It is a very costly surgery since it is both legs. I just called the breeder to let her know. I don't want another puppy, I love my little girl too much. She goes to MSU Vet school next week to get evaluated etc. It already cost me 400.00 so far. Should I do something about the breeder or what? I don't want her to sell other dogs if this is heriditary. Just would like to ease my mind.
Thanks everyone

[Sugar's Mom]

Who is your breeder? has she continued to refuse to work with you? I agree with Michelle. LP is a very hard call . Until we know more about these things and that they are genetic beyond a doubt, I just don't know what we as breeders or buyers can do. I had a vet tell me one time that if I ever saw a yorkie that didn't have it to some degree to be sure to let him know. it isn't just the yorkies it seems but all smaller breeds. And also she is right in that just because your parents do not have it, doesn't mean the pup won't. Same as LS or any thing else.

[BrendaS54]

Yes she has, she said her vet told her it wasn't heriditary, and that is it. So I just wanted her to know. I have kept her updated since the day I got her. Emailing her an private message, calling her. She trully is a beautiful girl. Hair an eyes an everything. Just both back legs are bad. She hasn't limped or held her legs up yet. My vet has documented that she has BiLatereal Luxating Pattellas. She just don't care I guess. I still want to keep her, just want her to know about the problem.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by BrendaS54

Yes she has, she said her vet told her it wasn't heriditary, and that is it. So I just wanted her to know. I have kept her updated since the day I got her. Emailing her an private message, calling her. She trully is a beautiful girl. Hair an eyes an everything. Just both back legs are bad. She hasn't limped or held her legs up yet. My vet has documented that she has BiLatereal Luxating Pattellas. She just don't care I guess. I still want to keep her, just want her to know about the problem.

that's a shame about the breeder. i wouldn't have the surgery unless it is so bad that she is limping and suffering.

[gloriajean]

my vet charges $800.00 for BOTH legs but he won't do the surgery unless the dog is in pain and limping which sometimes never happens so I wish you good luck.

[Ladymom]

A very reputable Maltese show breeder explained to us on another forum that one year is the general cut off for determining if luxating patellas are genetic or caused by injury.

When you got her at five months, did your vet check her knees? If they were clear then, she most likely got them from trauma (jumping on and off furniture).

Did you ask - and see proof or speak to her vet- if her parents knees were cleared before breeding?

[MyTrixie143]

What grade did the vet say it was?

If the dog has never limped, isn't in pain, or infected in any other way by it, why at this point, put the dog through a surgery that is costly and painful?

I find it hard to grasp that her knees can be so bad that they require surgery without any symptoms showing.

[MyFairLacy]

Lacy has grade 3 LPs and so far have never caused her pain or to limp so I wouldn't consider surgery for her.

I hate to say it but I think you are right about your breeder...she's not always honest and I know my friend got the run around from her. You bring up a problem and all of a sudden you can't get ahold of her

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Luxating patellas are a hard one. Yes it's genetic but it can also be caused by an injury. Mild LPs can also be worsened by injury. A breeder ought to be only breeding sound dogs with tight patellas and ideally xraying and getting them OFAed. But sound dogs can have puppies with LPs. If a puppy has severe LPs and wasn't injured a breeder ought to cover it, but it is a hard one to cover because most toy breed dogs will at least have mild LPs and are usually jumping.

With that said I know who your breeder is...a local friend of mine has a dog from her too...

The exam for OFA for patellas is a manual exam performed by a regular vet. No xrays are used. It is not the same as OFA'ing hips. Just an FYI. Here is the form for having patella's OFA'd: http://www.offa.org/plappbw.pdf

My guess is that her condition, since it is in both knees and of two different grades, is congenital (meaning present at birth). Have the vet, after surgery, differentiate as to whether the groove in the bone was so shallow it needed to be deepened (congenital) or whether he was just repairing the soft tissue (more likely injury). Congenital however is not the same thing as hereditary, although many congenital defects are inherited. Really, what you would need to know is (a) whether the problems with the knee is a too shallow a groove which means congenital and (b) whether there are littermates, or full or half siblings (or parents) with the same condition. If so, most likely it was inherited.

[BrendaS54]

The right leg is almost 4 an the left is 3. She hasn't done any limping or nothing. My vet said since she isn't limping or holding her legs up to just give it a "wait an See" . We are waiting, an if she starts to limp at all then she goes to MSU vet an be evaluated again. Thanks so much YT Friends for answering my questions. You guys are great. My little girl is so pretty, even though she does has an attitude.. lol..

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by wildcard

The exam for OFA for patellas is a manual exam performed by a regular vet. No xrays are used. It is not the same as OFA'ing hips. Just an FYI. Here is the form for having patella's OFA'd: http://www.offa.org/plappbw.pdf

My guess is that her condition, since it is in both knees and of two different grades, is congenital (meaning present at birth). Have the vet, after surgery, differentiate as to whether the groove in the bone was so shallow it needed to be deepened (congenital) or whether he was just repairing the soft tissue (more likely injury). Congenital however is not the same thing as hereditary, although many congenital defects are inherited. Really, what you would need to know is (a) whether the problems with the knee is a too shallow a groove which means congenital and (b) whether there are littermates, or full or half siblings (or parents) with the same condition. If so, most likely it was inherited.

What age would think would be good to have it done since most vets are under the impression that ALL puppies have loose knees to a degree. This is something I would be interested in doing on all puppies.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

What age would think would be good to have it done since most vets are under the impression that ALL puppies have loose knees to a degree. This is something I would be interested in doing on all puppies.

Dee, personally I would have them OFA'ed before breeding of course. I've had one puppy as young as 3 months to 6 months have tight knees and then after a year to almost 2 end up with a grade 2 LP. As in my Harvey. I'm sure his is genetic but it didn't show up until after he was over 16 months old. But his mother has LP but developed them after a year old so since mom and son have LP I'm going to say genetic. Harvey and Brookie had tight knees at 6 to 12 months old. LP is very hard but when a puppy under the age of 1 has LP upon examination I wouldn't breed them of course. After a year it can be caused from injury and that is why LP is so hard again as some have posted. In my contract I will cover LP up to one year if it's a grade 4 by one year of age. Both my Harvey and Brookie have up to grade 3's but I have maintained weight and control of jumping and haven't had a problem with them in over year since maintaining weight control. I will not have surgery on either yorkie unless they show any signs of pain and intolerance to the LP. It's a very painful surgery and if I can avoid it I will unless ABSOLUTELY necessary

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Patti]

I have one with grade 4 in both legs and she has never shown any sign of pain or limping. My vet said do the watch and see approach as Cali also has mild MVD and we don't want her put under unless absolutely necessary. Her breeder was made aware of both MVD and LP and never offered any help. I also never asked since her contract was for 48 hours (before YT)

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Patti

I have one with grade 4 in both legs and she has never shown any sign of pain or limping. My vet said do the watch and see approach as Cali also has mild MVD and we don't want her put under unless absolutely necessary. Her breeder was made aware of both MVD and LP and never offered any help. I also never asked since her contract was for 48 hours (before YT)

I'm sorry your breeder wasn't responsible Grade 4 for me to cover it although the yorkie would have to be up to one year of age. As, LP can be caused from injury and the owner not knowing it happened because of jumping ect....as far as the MVD goes the breeder should do some health testing and stand behind their breeding program....I spoke personally with Dr. Center and she said with perfectly normal parents with normal bile acid tests can produce MVD and LS but it could also be that pairing of individual dogs that produced the MVD or LS but until that genetic marker is found and established only thing we can do as responsible and reputable breeders is spay and neuter anything that produces MVD or LS.

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers