Need to Care for Puppies w/o Mom

[FlDebra]

Thanks Mardelin for so much first hand experience. I may take a look for the Goat's milk tomorrow. Their stools are much looser with the Just Born than the powdered formula I started with.

I was especially glad to hear about how yours were so people-oriented as they matured. I was hoping that would be the case for hand-fed babies. There has to be a plus to all this! Right now I am already looking forward to week 3 when they will go longer between feedings and can start some mushy eating on their own.

I have a spayed Jack Russell female who is very excited and interested in the puppies. She went from being afraid to being very curious. She may be able to provide some nurturing later but she is too rowdy to think about it for a couple more weeks, even with supervision. She is actually my male Yorkie's best buddy. They run our yard like a couple of race horses. My husband used to call her Hidalgo.

Originally Posted by Mardelin

...Puppies were a week old when Go-Go went down. I had begun the bottle feeding right away. Was doing the Just Born. Vet said take them off of it because it causes premature catiracs. To put them on Goats Milk with equal parts of Distilled Water (Goats Milk is the closest thing to Mother's Milk). After that they thrived.

Kept the pups in 80 degree monitored area, bottle fed every 3 hours, until they began to increase their intake and the feeding times began to spread.
Diapered them every 4-6 hours. Weighed them and took their temp twice a day.

Since I pretty much leave my puppies alone with their mother (that is other than weighing and temp taking) the first 8 weeks of their life. This situation was a bit different, they had human interaction from the get go.

I'll tell you this litter did very well, as far as being well-adjusted. I could really tell the differance when they got older. Their acceptance of human touch, wanting to be held, being very cuddly and kissy was just more pronounced. More easily piddle pad trained.

My situation was a bit different than yours, since I still had mother, and I put a onsie on her 3 or 4 times a day and put her in with the pups, so they could get mothers warmth and she could satisfy her motherly instincts.

So, your puppies will do very well. If you have another female and she'll accept them, as far as the cuddling. Allow her to do so, that is with your supervision.

By week 3 they were up to 64cc of milk....about every 5 hours and at times went 7 hours with out a bottle. By week 3 1/2 they were lapping on their own.....Week 4 I added Gerbers Rice Ceral to their Milk.....By week 5 they were eating puppy kibbles

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Thanks Mardelin for so much first hand experience. I may take a look for the Goat's milk tomorrow. Their stools are much looser with the Just Born than the powdered formula I started with.

I was especially glad to hear about how yours were so people-oriented as they matured. I was hoping that would be the case for hand-fed babies. There has to be a plus to all this! Right now I am already looking forward to week 3 when they will go longer between feedings and can start some mushy eating on their own.

I have a spayed Jack Russell female who is very excited and interested in the puppies. She went from being afraid to being very curious. She may be able to provide some nurturing later but she is too rowdy to think about it for a couple more weeks, even with supervision. She is actually my male Yorkie's best buddy. They run our yard like a couple of race horses. My husband used to call her Hidalgo.

oops! one more thing, a bit on the negative side; be prepared that these puppies will use each other to satisfy their nursing instincts, if you know what I mean. I was continually having to remove them off of each other. You might want to get a nipple, without putting a hole in it. Fashion some sort of a pacifier and let them suck on it, until they tire.

The other thing is when they start lapping you'll have to watch them to make sure they're all getting enough food. Weigh them before the feeding and after. I say this, because they don't have mother to nurse off should they still be hungry.

Oh! you will find that they will be great eaters.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

oops! one more thing, a bit on the negative side; be prepared that these puppies will use each other to satisfy their nursing instincts, if you know what I mean. I was continually having to remove them off of each other. You might want to get a nipple, without putting a hole in it. Fashion some sort of a pacifier and let them suck on it, until they tire.

The other thing is when they start lapping you'll have to watch them to make sure they're all getting enough food. Weigh them before the feeding and after. I say this, because they don't have mother to nurse off should they still be hungry.

Oh! you will find that they will be great eaters.

I use a syringe with a nipple attached to it....gives you more control on their intake and allows you to monitor the amount they are taking in. Per my vet, let them eat as much as the want.....they'll let you know when they're full.

My husband and I are amazed that we are still married after this experience. Bottle feeding round the clock, taking care of the rest of the yorkie crew and of course mom. Although, we could have done without Go-Go going down, we wouldn't have traded this experience for anything. These puppies became our babies.

[Breny]

I am so sorry to read of your loss. I know you must be devistated. I didn't raise a WHOLE litter but I raised a cleft Chi from birth. I bottle fed her, using a premie human nipple. It took me about 3 months, around the clock (since she had the cleft and was behind the others it took her alot longer before eating food and she could only have solid hard food so it took even longer)

But I only had to feed her, the mom still diapered her and snuggled her. It was a long road, and 3 months of no sleep, but we made it.

I used this recipe from birth on:

Bottle Feeding Recipe

11 Calories per CC

1. 10 oz. of canned evaporated milk or goat's milk (not pasteurized cow's milk - this will cause scowers - dogs cannot drink normal cow's milk) Goats milk is by far the best to use. Wall Mart sells it.

2. 3 oz. sterilized water (baby water or boiled water) this is not needed if using goat's milk

3. 1 raw egg yolk

4. 1 cup of whole yogurt (avoid skim or fat free if at all possible)

5. 1/2 Tsp Karo Syrup or Corn Syrup (NOT HONEY !!!)

****If you cannot find Karo or Corn syrup where you live, you can do a Google search for “substitute for Karo syrup” and get some options.****

When I Googled “substitute for Karo syrup" here is what I came up with- 1 c Karo can be subbed with 1 c white sugar and 1/4 c hot water (cook it to dissolve in the water best you can get it to. Depending on the recipe, if you need the sugar to be completely dissolved you might need to add a bit more water).

Place ingredients in a blender and blend or use a wire whisk. Be careful to not over blend and create a milk shake full of bubbles

Keep cool and discard leftovers after 7 days.

Warm formula to body temperature (dogs are around 101 degrees). Discard any un-used formula. This is a thick mixture .

[AbbysMom08]

I am so very sorry for your loss.
I will keep you and the babies in my prayers.
They are so very lucky to have you.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

oops! one more thing, a bit on the negative side; be prepared that these puppies will use each other to satisfy their nursing instincts, if you know what I mean. I was continually having to remove them off of each other. You might want to get a nipple, without putting a hole in it. Fashion some sort of a pacifier and let them suck on it, until they tire.
.

I absolutely know what you mean. Glad to know mine aren't the only little pervs. I have them beside me all the time and when I hear a sucking noise, I am quick to get them off each other. I thought at first it just meant they were hungry but they will do it even a little while after being fed when their little bellies are still swollen. Maybe a pacifier is a good idea. I have a couple of extra nipples. Will give it a try.

Good news -- my littlest one is starting to take the bottle much better. Also looking a little perkier and gained .8 of an ounce in one day.

It is difficult to keep them clean. I bathe them every day and wipe with the baby wipes as I get them out to feed them, but they keep getting stinky. No wonder momma dogs are constantly cleaning on them. When this carton of Just Born is done, I am definately switching back to the powdered formula so their stools firm up. Haven't gotten the goat milk yet, but hopefully will get that this weekend.

You are right that even though tiring, I will always remember this experience. It will be hard to part with these babies.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Breny

I didn't raise a WHOLE litter but I raised a cleft Chi from birth. I bottle fed her, using a premie human nipple. It took me about 3 months, around the clock (since she had the cleft and was behind the others it took her alot longer before eating food and she could only have solid hard food so it took even longer)

I used this recipe from birth on...

3 months, whew! I am already counting the days to see when I can start feeding from a dish. Sounds like that was a little miracle baby, thanks to you. I will keep your recipe in mind. It is quite a bit more calories per cc than the commercial varieties. So, did you feed a lot less at a time or less often? Might be helpful for my little one. He only gained .8 of an ounce in 6 days. Then finally yesterday he gained .8 of an ounce again. So, that is 1.6 ounces in 2 weeks. Not nearly as good as the others, but at least we are on the positive side.

[YorkieOwned5]

COuld you contact the vet or another clinic to se if they have any Yorkies that have recently given birth? Maybe she could help by kindof adopting them to the mother dog, does that make sense. Maybe even call a Yorkie breeder in your area for help. Good Luck and God Be with YOU thru this very difficult time. We should always listen to our gut reflex when it comes to our Babies. Vet staff rarely know everything/anything. Go straight to the person in charge... I think they are to blame for this......Sharon

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I absolutely know what you mean. Glad to know mine aren't the only little pervs. I have them beside me all the time and when I hear a sucking noise, I am quick to get them off each other. I thought at first it just meant they were hungry but they will do it even a little while after being fed when their little bellies are still swollen. Maybe a pacifier is a good idea. I have a couple of extra nipples. Will give it a try.

Good news -- my littlest one is starting to take the bottle much better. Also looking a little perkier and gained .8 of an ounce in one day.

It is difficult to keep them clean. I bathe them every day and wipe with the baby wipes as I get them out to feed them, but they keep getting stinky. No wonder momma dogs are constantly cleaning on them. When this carton of Just Born is done, I am definately switching back to the powdered formula so their stools firm up. Haven't gotten the goat milk yet, but hopefully will get that this weekend.

You are right that even though tiring, I will always remember this experience. It will be hard to part with these babies.

Yep! Little pervs is what comes to mind. It got to the point that I barely had to put the wet warm cotton ball to the the only boy in the litter and he'd pee. I would pick him up and he'd be all damp and warm and I thought that I had the whelping pen too warm. His sisters left for their forever homes a week before he did. I was a little worried that I'd have a bit of a problem, him sleeping by himself in the whelping pen. It was the first time he slept for 12 hours straight....poor lil guy, it was probably his first night of real rest.

Do try the goats milk....you will see those lil guys gain by leaps and bounds. I did the minute I switched them. They loved it. My vet who is a caine reproductive specialist as well as a specialist in canine nutrition told me that it was 97% closests to mothers milk. He screamed at me to get them off the Just Born.....just because of the premature catiracs. He's very into natural, natural. I asked him about Karo Syrup and other additives.....He said no, you must keep it as natural as possible. The only thing he recommends to keep on hand is Nutri Drops and NutriCal, but to use it sparingly. He also, recommended BeneBac with each change of food. Good thing I had this on hand since I usually do Nutri Drops and a 1/2 tube of BeneBac when each one is born.

[Breny]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

3 months, whew! I am already counting the days to see when I can start feeding from a dish. Sounds like that was a little miracle baby, thanks to you. I will keep your recipe in mind. It is quite a bit more calories per cc than the commercial varieties. So, did you feed a lot less at a time or less often? Might be helpful for my little one. He only gained .8 of an ounce in 6 days. Then finally yesterday he gained .8 of an ounce again. So, that is 1.6 ounces in 2 weeks. Not nearly as good as the others, but at least we are on the positive side.

Thanks She is my Miracle. She will be 3 in July and she is VERY special to us (and VERY spoiled!!!!! LOL) The reason it took so long was due to her cleft. She could not drink from a bowl (still can't) or handle soft food so it was only kibble for her and still is.

Yes it contains more calories, but Tia needed more and to be honest...I fed her as much as she would take since it was so hard to feed her. So I never measured, just fed till she wanted no more or fell to sleep

[wemple2]

May God bless you and your pups...good luck!

[Little Bit]

I am just seeing this. I am so sorry for the loss of your dear Sadie. Sounds like you are doing something right with the pups and they are thriving. Hang in there. You've received lots of good advice. I have not had that experience. We are so lucky to have so many here when we have a problem.

Hugs,

Nancy

[bella_mia_hairy]

so sorry for your loss! I wish you did not have to go through this!

It makes me mad when no when listens to you and you know something is not right!

Maybe now your vet will not blow off other people in your type of situation, but take the time to listen to their clients concerns.

No one knows your pet like you do and many vets forget to take that into consideration because they are the ones with the degree

Good Luck with your new Pups!

[Amazing Yorkies]

I am so sorry for your loss! I too sadly had to feed a litter of 5. My Mama dog had her stitches break open 4 days after a C-section. I was away finally running errands since nothing got done in the previous week of preparing for whelping and the subsequent Section. I returned 1 hour later and she had already passed from loss of blood. I was a wreck, and after 6 yrs can just barely talk about it.
Anyway.. I thought I would go insane from being so tired, but the babies thrived, and I didn't notice any bad effects from being raised by me. I also used the goats milk and Esbilac when I couldn't find it. I fed until 8 weeks, but at 4-5 weeks I added formula to ground kibble to make a mush.. mostly for them to play in.. lol
I'm hoping this thread can help someone in the future. I'm so sorry that your Vet didn't take your gut feeling seriously. I bet he does from now on! At the very least, his staff needs to learn that we know an emergency when we call. I can't believe they had you take a seat!! They should have had you bring her in the day before due to the discharge she had!
I always take the temp of Mom 12 and 24 and 36 hours after whelp to make sure she's doing well. I just had a litter last Saturday, she still had a little green discharge, but I figured we had a placenta retained, hoping she would expel it. I gave her a shot of Oxi and started on antibiotic, just in case. Sunday early morning she was at 101.. (although normal, a little high just after a whelp when their temp drops to 97 or 98, usually at 99 or 100 at 24 hours) I gave her fluids and Oxi but at noon was 102. I rushed her to the Vet, and was 103 by time I got there. After an internal exam, all we found was a pocket of green crap and nothing else. Although getting that out, more fluids, Oxi, a shot of antibiotics, and a little Calcium and her temp went down to 101 by time I left. It happens quickly and we can never take anything for granted, even with a successful whelp.
Let me know if I can help in any way. Too bad we're not closer, I've got a surrogate with only 2 pups a couple of weeks old and lots of milk. And unlike the other post.. you could have ALL your pups back.
Wishing you the best of Luck and big hugs!

[fon]

i'm sorry for you loss ,i'll be prayin for u and your puppys