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-   -   Breeding for Improvement? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/146370-breeding-improvement.html)

Nancy1999 09-22-2008 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2249993)
Like I said why bring the money into it, it could just have easily been written this way if was just about the color.
Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs.
I think the YTCA frowns on any breeder breeding for money. YTCA members are forbidden to advertise, and they are forbidden from using certain words when describing their dogs. If this is a for-profit enterprise, many people think a breeder will take shortcuts to make that profit. YTCA members believe breeding should be done for one reason only – to improve the breed. If someone is charging more for a "rare" yorkie than what a premium example of the breed would cost, it raises suspicions of the true motives of the breeder, as it should.

Breezeaway 09-22-2008 11:16 AM
What it amounts to is as long as there are dogs there will be controversy, It is in just about every breed. In the 80's I raised and trained Brittanys. The Black and white Brittany was a no no in the American Brittany club. But the original Brittanys included black and white. The ABC decided they would not allow the B&W in their standards. The club decided this, Not AKC. Akc still registers B &W but they cannot be shown in the US because of the club standards.
The war did a lot of damage to the Brittany Spaniel in France and after the war black was allowed back in as an acceptable coloration because of the much depleted gene pool for the Brittany Spaniel in Europe. It was and is felt that the gene pool in the United States is sufficiently rich that there is no need to change the standard and allow black colorationeven though the original Brittanys included B & W.
Which is now why they are separated breeds" The Brittany, in the USA and the "French Brittany" but actually really the same . Only color separates them.

yorkiekist 09-22-2008 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2249728)
I know that in every one of these threads, when you ran out of things to say you resort to name calling. Let see Bybs, puppy millers, ignorant, unethical, irresponsible, does any of that ring a bell.

And everytime the thread gets closed.

Everyone can go back and see for themselves. And I have never once called you names.

And yes I have to reiterate because you keep repeating the same false statements over and over and I feel it is my responsibility to give the people the correct information.
So let me get this straight: You now are a fan of mills and bybrs. I never said you called me names, like that would REALLY hurt my feelings or even mean anything in the realm of my life. Also, my statements are ONLY false in YOUR eyes because I dont agree with YOUR agenda. You have never said much of anything that makes sence and had anything to back it up either, so where do you get off? I think its great when any threads that you are on get closed since you a very snide in your remarks to me, I dont think your posts are worth reading. JMO

yorkiekist 09-22-2008 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 2249793)
I posted the links to the studies to show that the accusation that the YTCA donations involved the same thing as breeding dogs and recording "results" was inaccurate. I doubt very highly that the studies that were supported by the YTCA foundation had anything to do with parti colored or off colored yorkies. I am very doubtful that the YTCA Foundation sits around thinking of ways to show that irregularly colored yorkies are unhealthy. The point is try to support research aimed at identifing the causes of medical disorders so that breeders can make educated decisions about the dogs they breed. It has nothing to do with proving that the standard the YTCA created is correct or not.
Thank you for this nice informative post!!

bchgirl 09-22-2008 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2250031)
What it amounts to is as long as there are dogs there will be controversy, It is in just about every breed. In the 80's I raised and trained Brittanys. The Black and white Brittany was a no no in the American Brittany club. But the original Brittanys included black and white. The ABC decided they would not allow the B&W in their standards. The club decided this, Not AKC. Akc still registers B &W but they cannot be shown in the US because of the club standards.
The war did a lot of damage to the Brittany Spaniel in France and after the war black was allowed back in as an acceptable coloration because of the much depleted gene pool for the Brittany Spaniel in Europe. It was and is felt that the gene pool in the United States is sufficiently rich that there is no need to change the standard and allow black colorationeven though the original Brittanys included B & W.
Which is now why they are separated breeds" The Brittany, in the USA and the "French Brittany" but actually really the same . Only color separates them.
Oh I understand why different breed clubs WANT to be the parent club of a particular breed.

BamaFan121s 09-22-2008 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2249993)
Like I said why bring the money into it, it could just have easily been written this way if was just about the color.
Because the outrageous prices that some BYB/millers are charging for something marketed as RARE is part of the problem too. Just like you see with "teacups." The YTCA has had a stance against using that term for a long time, but there doesn't seem to be an issue with that.:confused:

iLuv Reeses 09-22-2008 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2249723)
Different breeders used different dogs, perhaps the line that the silkie came from did not have the maltese mixed in. Not all of those early breeders used the same dogs. But eventually as they breed developed the breeders sought out other dogs that had the same traits as their own dogs and mated them.

the develoopment of the yorkie was not a scientific endeavor. it was done mainly by poor people who couldn't even read or write and their breeding records were kept in their heads.
I tried researching about the Maltese and found out it was a very old dog. It was like the yorkie which was bred to hunt vermins but that was 8000 years ago.The maltese dogs are the dogs of the upperclass and the royalties when the yorkies were still being in the process of existence in the hands of poor scottish workers and with the social barrier of the poor and the rich, i wonder how they were able to use the maltese in that period? Aside from the Biewers, are there other partis not related with the Nikko line in the world? Please fill me in. There are only few materials I could find to read about the partis. Thanks.

Breezeaway 09-22-2008 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2250178)
Because the outrageous prices that some BYB/millers are charging for something marketed as RARE is part of the problem too. Just like you see with "teacups." The YTCA has had a stance against using that term for a long time, but there doesn't seem to be an issue with that.:confused:
And YTCA needs to address the teacup issue. They have a set stance on max weight not over 7 lbs but no where do they state a minimum weight
IMO they need to go with height and length standards instead of weight anyway. Weight on dogs is so variable, you can have a 12 inch dog that weighs 5 lbs and a 7 inch dog that weighs 8 lbs.

wildcard 09-22-2008 01:40 PM
I think it is more likely that the the gene that causes parti color in yorkies (whether it happened in the development of the YT or more recently) is from a breed or precursor to a breed where you regularly see piebald as a coat pattern. This is an interesting article on the various alleles involved in coat color genetics. Coat Color Genetics


I am not sure why adding in a maltese here or there would cause parti color...

JeanieK 09-22-2008 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2249982)
It's interesting that you interpret the statement that way. You focus on the portion of the stament regarding money, assuming that is why they adopted their policy, I read it and assumed it was because of the 'unscrupulous breeders' portion of the statment.
Then why even mention the money? it serves no purpose.

bchgirl 09-22-2008 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 2250269)
I think it is more likely that the the gene that causes parti color in yorkies (whether it happened in the development of the YT or more recently) is from a breed or precursor to a breed where you regularly see piebald as a coat pattern. This is an interesting article on the various alleles involved in coat color genetics. Coat Color Genetics


I am not sure why adding in a maltese here or there would cause parti color...
What a maltese would add if there is maltese....is the extreme recessive pie bald gene. The gene responsible for the white coloring.

A side note...all dogs who possess this gene have ticking. Every dog in every breed.

Breezeaway 09-22-2008 02:00 PM
The earliest known Maltese on record in the United States was born in 1873. He was entered at Westminster in 1879 and was also the first colored Maltese shown here. Entered as a "Maltese Skye Terrier," he was described as being white with black ears.

JeanieK 09-22-2008 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2250033)
So let me get this straight: You now are a fan of mills and bybrs. I never said you called me names, like that would REALLY hurt my feelings or even mean anything in the realm of my life. Also, my statements are ONLY false in YOUR eyes because I dont agree with YOUR agenda. You have never said much of anything that makes sence and had anything to back it up either, so where do you get off? I think its great when any threads that you are on get closed since you a very snide in your remarks to me, I dont think your posts are worth reading. JMO
Then feel free not to read or reply to them.

And where does it say that i am a friend of Byb's and millers?

Oh that's right you're not reading my posts, then never mind, cause I doubt that anyone else got that impression from what I wrote.

JeanieK 09-22-2008 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2250001)
I thought the same thing, Bama....but then thought would it not be YTCA's opinion anyone breeding off colors would be unscrupulous?

I also thought maybe I should keep my mouth shut too. :rolleyes:
Yes they way it reads is that they only object to those who are breeding and selling for premium prices. Whew!! that makes me feel better. At least i'm not "one of those"!!!!

JeanieK 09-22-2008 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2250014)
I think the YTCA frowns on any breeder breeding for money. YTCA members are forbidden to advertise, and they are forbidden from using certain words when describing their dogs. If this is a for-profit enterprise, many people think a breeder will take shortcuts to make that profit. YTCA members believe breeding should be done for one reason only – to improve the breed. If someone is charging more for a "rare" yorkie than what a premium example of the breed would cost, it raises suspicions of the true motives of the breeder, as it should.
so accordng to the YTCA no one should sell puppies to anyone?? Unless you are showing yorkies you should not be able to own one? Cause no one else is supposed to breed or sell them? Now to me that is a bit of a "excuse the experssion", Nazi. As in only those who show are good enough to breed or own.


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